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#1. schools - from Ken Robb
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Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 14:04:11 -0700 From: Ken Robb <kenrobb@willisallen.com> Subject: schools Maybe you need a new instructor? :-) All you have to do is get off the gas a bit earlier and brake sooner and gentler to arrive at the turn in at the appropriate speed, hit your apex, and track out point. Good drivers adjust their technique to match the equipment they are driving. There was a lot of erroneous info on braking techniques being put forth here by some pretty good drivers a few months ago to whit: If you have brake fade you can cure it by braking later and harder----baloney!!!!That is maximum braking. When you want to conserve brakes you must brake earlier and with less pressure. Imagine grinding on a power grinder and you will see that more pressure = more sparks,heat, and material removal. Not to be preachy but hey, back off a bit and enjoy yourself. If we are diligent about doing cool-down laps without using the brakes at all we won't have many warped rotors. Heck ,if I have time I'll take some easy turns around the paddock or access road after a session. I usually get 25,000+ miles out of stock rotors and even got a set under warranty, only possible because I had stock pads. Aftermarket pads=no warranty on rotors. Ken Robb Jay Sala wrote: > Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 16:18:41 +0800 > From: Jay Sala <jsala@mist.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Pads and driving schools > > I switched to Porterfield R4 track pads because I regularly experienced > brake fade with stock brake pads at BMW CCA driving schools, with was > reducing my enjoyment of the events. > > The fade occurred in the course of learning the line. There was no racing > involved, and I wasn't doing max-g braking for every corner either. > > To compensate for the brake fade I'd have to slow down part way through > sessions to the point that while I was driving a racing line, I wasn't > really learning how to approach my limits, nor how to take the line at > speed (different braking points, different turn in points, etc). Track > pads helped me use the entire session for learning, not merely driving > around. > > Besides, brakes are a safety issue. Feeling the pedal sink as you're > braking for turn 11 of Laguna Seca is no fun! > > Jay Sala > ... no car and no fun! > > -------------------- 6 -------------------- > >Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:05:00 -0700 > >From: Ken Robb <kenrobb@willisallen.com> > >Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Pads and driving schools > > > >As I see it, I can use the same pad on the street and track, but I'm not > >racing. We do BMWCCA driving schools to teach driving techniques in a > >controlled environment. As everyone who has read the club policy knows, racing > >and timing laps is not allowed. > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > ************************************************************* -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Brake Pads and driving schools - from Ken Robb
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Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 14:20:38 -0700 From: Ken Robb <kenrobb@willisallen.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Pads and driving schools Well the stated purpose of the schools is to teach driving not racing techniques. Yes there is lots of overlap. I have seen several students cum track junkies burn up their track tires on Saturday or on Sunday morning, put on their street tires for the rest of the weekend and promptly drive off the track because "it didn't stick the same". My point isn't whether track tires work better on the track or not. Of course they do, but we are trying to make most of our students better drivers on the street and we can best accomplish that by teaching them to get the most out of what they will have on their cars on the street. I'm sick of this thread already:-) Geof McLaughlin wrote: > Ken, > > I respectfully disagree. First and primarily because driving skills > learned carry over regardless of the type of equipment used on a car. Your > statement "The purpose of the schools is somewhat negated when drivers get > used to the response of their cars with their track tires, etc.and then > don't get the same response on street tires in a road emergency." is a very > simplistic view. Perhaps this is something that could happen when a track > newbie shows up with R-compund tires and the car all tricked out in > high-performance accessories, but this is far from my experience. I think > that the type of individual who expects there stock car to handle the same > as when it is track-prepared can be equated to the same person who thinks > that because they drive a M3 that the laws of physics no longer apply. > > Second, R-compound tires and "racing" brake pads stand up much better to > track conditions than street tires and stock brake pads. I am not much in > the habit of spending excessively on replacing parts every time I go to the > track. > > I have however debated whether race-prepared cars should be allowed at > driver schools. The racer mentality typically shows up when race-prepared > cars show up in the form of late passes in corners, passing without > signals, etc. I have come to conclusion however that incidents such as > this are usually only due to a few bad apples in the bunch and that the > proper response would be harsh measures taken by the event organizers on > offenders. > > At 03:16 PM 7/7/00 -0500, Ken Robb wrote: > >Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:05:00 -0700 > >From: Ken Robb <kenrobb@willisallen.com> > >Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Pads and driving schools > > > >As I see it, I can use the same pad on the street and track, but I'm not > >racing. We do BMWCCA driving schools to teach driving techniques in a > >controlled environment. As everyone who has read the club policy knows, > racing > >and timing laps is not allowed. The LA chapter even says anyone caught timing > >laps will be sent home. If I were in charge of school policy only street > legal, > >insured cars on non-R compound tires would be allowed. We are now running > >race-specific schools for those who want to go that extra step. If you mean > >that you should have race specific pads for competition I certainly agree > with > >that. When fractions of a second matter, we need all the help we can get. If > >I'm at a school, driving smoothly, hitting my turn-ins, apexes, and track-out > >points and you come up on me I'll be happy to let you by. I'm too lazy to be > >dragging a trailer full of tires and other track-specific equipment and > >spending what little free time I have between students working on the car. On > >the other hand, when I do need a jack or something I'm glad you guys brought > >the good stuff with you.(Thanks, Ralph and Brad). The purpose of the schools > >is somewhat negated when drivers get used to the response of their cars with > >their track tires, etc.and then don't get the same response on street > tires in > >a road emergency. And yes boys will be boys(and so will the girls, right > Donna) > >and when you close on me on the track I might pick up the pace a smidge to > see > >if you're really that fast. :-) Ken Robb > > > >Sean Hester wrote: > > > >> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:25:09 PDT > >> From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> > >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Pads x Brake Dust > >> > >> >Thanks for the input, but off-ramp braking is not what most of us mean by > >> >high speed > >> >braking. I think in terms of 110mph to 35mph downhill into turn 2 at > >> >Laguna. You're > >> >not doing that kind of braking on the freeway, are you? No,really. > >> > >> i hope by now (it's been a 2 year crusade for me) that noone thinks you can > >> use the same pads on the street as the track. > >> > >> when i'm talking about offering a reward for the "perfect" brake pad, (no > >> noise, no dust, stops good) i'm talking about a street pad. i know just > >> enough physics to know that there's no hope at all of a "no noise, no dust, > >> stops good at a racetrack" brake pad at all. > >> ________________________________________________________________________ > >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > >> > >> ************************************************************* > >> List Commands > >> UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > >> ************************************************************* > > > >-- > >----------------------------------------------------- > >Click here for Free Video!! > >http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ > > > > > > > >************************************************************* > >List Commands > >UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > >************************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Brake Pads and driving schools - from Ron Katona
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Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 18:26:25 -0400 From: Ron Katona <rkatona@bellatlantic.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Pads and driving schools Geof McLaughlin wrote: > I respectfully disagree. First and primarily because driving skills > learned carry over regardless of the type of equipment used on a car. I have to agree. I also used to wonder why street tires weren't mandated, but the more schools I entered and the more serious I got about autocross, I realized how much can be learned with race or at least semi-race equipment. I can hop in the 318ti with its skinny all season radials and just have a ball after autocrossing the M3 on big fat Hoosiers. If you can learn to keep a car right at the knife-edge of the limits of track tires, you'll find driving street tires that yell and scream at you that they are about to break away and then do so in a slow, mushy fashion quite easy to control at the limit. Of course, that assumes you've put in the time to really max out what you can learn on the street tires first... that's probably Ken's point. So do we outlaw R tires until you have x number of track days or are signed off for them by an instructor? -- Ron Katona
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#4. Re: factory oil - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:23:27 -0400 From: "Paul Elliott" <pelliott@rcn.com> Subject: Re: factory oil Russel, >my service rep at tate bmw (annapolis, md) swears that my 99 m3 was factory filled with synthetic. in fact he says that this has been the case since 1997...< Pity, how little some so called 'experts' really know. >factory. of course, since i'm losing about 1 quart every 1000 miles, i'm skeptical. he says that's normal for hard driving. maybe so for my $45,000 bmw< 1 qt per 1000 - 1500 miles seems about par for the course...And, it seems to be true regardless of whether or not you use synthetic. >i've switched back to non-synthetic to try to stop the oil loss....so far it seems to be helping some.< It might seem so, at times...But I think you'll come to the same conclusion I did, after having switched from the factory mineral to synthetic at 3K miles, and back to mineral at 7K miles where I am now, at 15K miles...I plan to go back to synthetic at my schedules inspection 1 which should come in another 2K miles...That conclusion is that during break in with conventional oil, I consumed approx the same amount I did when I switched to synthetic, which is the same amount I am still consuming back with dino oil...ie, the inexorable 1 qt per 1000-1500 miles, no matter what!!! Why it is that some folks dont seem to burn any with the M3s , but most seem to be like you and me, I dont know...Only that it seems to be perfectly evident and perfectly true. And also, perfectly ok! And certainly well under the critical threshold of approx 1 qt per 400 - 600 miles, where BMW says there is a problem!! The only pain will be in the pocket book. But, at $3.50/qt for synthetic, assuming 15000 miles per year, that's about $35 a year. Not really too painful, is it? _____________________________ Paul Elliott '99 Alpine White M3; <20000 mi; Forged M dbl-spokes; Rotex pads; Dinan Stage II Supercharger
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: Oil grade (Engine) and more... - from Ron Buchalski
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Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 18:48:50 PDT From: "Ron Buchalski" <rbuchals@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Oil grade (Engine) and more... >From: "reed nicholson" <reedthis48@hotmail.com> >To: rbuchals@hotmail.com, e36m3@bmwmpower.com >Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Oil grade (Engine) and more... >Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 05:54:47 PDT > >>So, either: >> >>1) Matching oil viscosity to ambient conditions is not as critical as I >>thought it was, or >>2) There is alot of mis-information out there. >> >>-rb >>(still trying to determine the best oil viscosity for his BMWs) > >I think both of these apply. I would say that oil viscosity, within the >range that everyone suggests, is just not that critical, as evidenced by >people having success with whatever they're using. But mostly, we have no >way of really objectively measuring which viscosity is "best". If your >engine doesn't blow up or wear out in 20,000 miles, and you can't feel a >power increase or decrease, who knows what effect any particular viscosity >might be having. My guess is there is no specific correct answer, which is >why nobody has one, not even BMW! It just seems ironic. The Germans are so anal when it comes to engineering, you'd think that they would spell out oil recommendations in great detail. And you're right...unless one has made a gross error with oil, a problem may never be noticed. Whether it's a cause for concern, or something to forget about, probably shows up when the car reaches 200k miles, and is either still running well, or is suffering from major problems. For most of us, at that point, we won't care. For others (like me), who plan to own my M3 'forever', I'm always concerned about using the right stuff in my car. >I think it's one less thing I need to obsess about. Now if I could just >stop worrying about whether or not my trunk liner is throwing off my >front/rear weight ratio! Did you put one of those Weathertech liners in? Uh oh...your car is now 0.01% heavier in the rear! ;-) -rb > >Reed/Seattle > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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#6. My midlife crisis is for sale!!!!! - from JSDONE@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:50:56 EDT From: JSDONE@aol.com Subject: My midlife crisis is for sale!!!!! Please submit this FOR SALE list.. 1998 M3 convertable, contour wheels, 20,000 miles. auto, premium cd factory system, custom wood package, Boston Green with coordinating Dk. Green convertable top, special rare Moderna leather interior, sheep-skins, zymol and factory synthetic oils changed at 3500 miles not like the factory 10,000 miles. If anyone is interested please let me know before I put it in the car trader..I really hate to sell it but I cannot continue with the BMW service. This car is in better shape than new.. Absolutely the finest color combination you can order.. Total class act......$39,000.00 FIRM
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#7. Re: [E36M3] E36M3 #303 - from JSDONE@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 21:55:17 EDT From: JSDONE@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 #303
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#8. Re: UUC Short Shifter Installation - from LHassig@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 22:36:27 EDT From: LHassig@aol.com Subject: Re: UUC Short Shifter Installation Stan, you wrote: << ...but can't believe someone would be able to hold the allen bolts provided and screw them in to the ERK when it is in the carrier >> As I recall, when a friend and I did this procedure on my car, we placed a small quantity of window sealant--the putty-like kind that comes in a roll--to the end of the allen wrench before inserting it into the screw head. This didn't make it easy, merely possible. Lee Hassig '95 M3 (lhassig@aol.com)
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#9. Moderators Needed . . . - from Ian Wendt
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Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 21:00:18 -0600 From: Ian Wendt <ianwendt@bmwtoys.com> Subject: Moderators Needed . . . Hi folks; We are looking for two more moderators for the M3 E36 Discussion Boards on BMWToys.com. If anyone is interested, you can find more information at http://www.bmwtoys.com/moderator.htm This is a great way to interact with other BMW enthusiasts, make some friends and learn more about your car! (I hope no one considers this a commercial advertisement. Not selling anything today, just need some good M3 moderators, and this is a great place to look.) I hope to see you online! Ian H. Wendt ianwendt@bmwtoys.com BMWToys.com - The Ultimate Online BMW Resource
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Moderators Needed . . . - from Suzy Kraft
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Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 00:16:44 -0500 From: Suzy Kraft <suekraft@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Moderators Needed . . . People really have a lot of nerve these days. Your website is a business and this is still a PRIVATE MAILING LIST!!! Suzy Ian Wendt wrote: > > Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 21:00:18 -0600 > From: Ian Wendt <ianwendt@bmwtoys.com> > Subject: Moderators Needed . . . > > Hi folks; > > We are looking for two more moderators for the M3 E36 Discussion Boards on > BMWToys.com. If anyone is interested, you can find more information at > http://www.bmwtoys.com/moderator.htm > > This is a great way to interact with other BMW enthusiasts, make some > friends and learn more about your car! > > (I hope no one considers this a commercial advertisement. Not selling > anything today, just need some good M3 moderators, and this is a great > place to look.) > > I hope to see you online! > > Ian H. Wendt > ianwendt@bmwtoys.com > BMWToys.com - The Ultimate Online BMW Resource > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > *************************************************************