-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. handling characteristics - from DiVincenti, A.J.
Top
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:02:46 -0500 From: "DiVincenti, A.J." <ADiVin@lsusd.lsuhsc.edu> Subject: handling characteristics Kenn Robb said:. "So I would say that until you are driving the perfect lap and using everything your stock car can give, you are wasting your $ and giving up comfort and clearance for nothing more than appearance and something to talk about while bench racing...." Well, where do we draw the line? Why don't we all drive Neons until our abilities are up to stock M3 levels. I'm sure not everyone on this list is using everything the stock M3 can give, so we wasted our money for nothing more than appearance -right? After all, Neons are more predictable. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, just playing devils advocate aj.
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. RE: [E36M3] m3 handling - from MDadgar@handspring.com
Top
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:49:23 -0700 From: MDadgar@handspring.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] m3 handling Donna wrote: > At my first safety school, an instructor was looking at the > sea of ~30 E36 M3s and grumbling, "I hate to teach people to > drive in M3s. They're so forgiving that you don't know you're > in trouble until you're in a _lot_ of trouble." This is actually exactly why I bought an E30 M3 track car. The E36 is *so* good that it makes up for my errors. And when I do make a mistake serious enough to ruffle the car, I'm REALLY movin' fast. Not good. It's also why the E36 stayed basically stock, and why the E30 will for quite a while, too (other than the roll bar, Recaros, R rubber, PF90's, 5-points, and other associated "safety" or "economy" components :) ). - Mark '95 M3 '97 528i 5-spd '88 M3, Hennarot ---- Mark Dadgar - Product Manager, Accessories (650) 230-5037 voice - (650) 230-2100 fax mdadgar@handspring.com - Handspring, Inc. "wide awake on the edge of the world" - Marillion Check out Visor at www.handspring.com!
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. RE: [E36M3] Driving Schools/Auto-xing-If not an M3, - from MDadgar@handspring.com
Top
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:52:59 -0700 From: MDadgar@handspring.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] Driving Schools/Auto-xing-If not an M3, Andrew wrote: > The consensus I'm aware of is that the M3 is too good, and > too forgiving, for a beginner to learn much -- a beginner can > make HUGE mistakes and the car will still stay on track. Ok, let me beat Bassett and Seeley to this one. It *IS* possible to get your M3 to go off-track. Ask me how I know. :) - Mark "Turn 10, Turn 11" Dadgar '95 M3 '97 528i 5-spd '88 M3, Hennarot ---- Mark Dadgar - Product Manager, Accessories (650) 230-5037 voice - (650) 230-2100 fax mdadgar@handspring.com - Handspring, Inc. "wide awake on the edge of the world" - Marillion Check out Visor at www.handspring.com!
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. Handling of the M3 - from Pieter Van Dien
Top
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 07:43:53 -0400 From: "Pieter Van Dien" <pvd1@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Handling of the M3 It is strange that we are seeing such a difference in opinion regarding the handling of the M3. For myself, I can only compare the car to the VW GTI VR6 I auto-xd previously. That car had a Bilstein suspension and lowering springs. I ran the old R1s. My M3 is totally stock. I now run Khumos on the stock sized wheels and frankly, have never lost the rear with the Khumos. Previously, I was running street tires on the stock wheels in an effort to "learn" more. On street tires, my car is very twitchy at the auto-x, its very entertaining but impossible to be fast. When I used to lose it in the GTI, the rear end would step around and you'd do a 180 then it would stop. In the M3, the spins are fast and violent and seem to carry their own momentum. I always felt comfortable in the GTI, not so in the M3. Maybe I need to do a total alignment check or maybe I'm just really a front-wheel driver at heart. I do find the M3 much more stable on the track than the auto-x (these are fast--60-80mph events). Piete
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. RE: [E36M3] Handling of the M3, I agree with Pieter - from Paul Tsaliagos
Top
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:01:24 -0400 From: Paul Tsaliagos <ptsaliagos@mediamap.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Handling of the M3, I agree with Pieter I had a Jetta VR6 with roughly the same setup as Pieter and I had no fear driving that car to its limits and beyond. I've only had the M3/4 for about two months(first rear wheel drive car) and I am still getting used to it. I haven't pushed it to hard yet. I hope to get some track time this year to practice safely. I might be like pieter, a front-wheel driver at heart! -----Original Message----- From: Pieter Van Dien [mailto:pvd1@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 7:54 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Handling of the M3 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 07:43:53 -0400 From: "Pieter Van Dien" <pvd1@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Handling of the M3 It is strange that we are seeing such a difference in opinion regarding the handling of the M3. For myself, I can only compare the car to the VW GTI VR6 I auto-xd previously. That car had a Bilstein suspension and lowering springs. I ran the old R1s. My M3 is totally stock. I now run Khumos on the stock sized wheels and frankly, have never lost the rear with the Khumos. Previously, I was running street tires on the stock wheels in an effort to "learn" more. On street tires, my car is very twitchy at the auto-x, its very entertaining but impossible to be fast. When I used to lose it in the GTI, the rear end would step around and you'd do a 180 then it would stop. In the M3, the spins are fast and violent and seem to carry their own momentum. I always felt comfortable in the GTI, not so in the M3. Maybe I need to do a total alignment check or maybe I'm just really a front-wheel driver at heart. I do find the M3 much more stable on the track than the auto-x (these are fast--60-80mph events). Piete ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. *************************************************************
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. that tail just don't snap out . . . - from jbergstrom
Top
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 07:38:38 -0500 From: "jbergstrom" <john@intellectsys.com> Subject: that tail just don't snap out . . . >>>the M3 is designed to not slide. and it's really good at it. so good at it, that by the time things are bad enough to be "bad" you go from "everything's perfect" to "i'm spinning" with little to no warning.<<< >>>Just curious, do the other 3 series behaves similarly?<<< BAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!! Flame suit on, but the E36M3 is one of the most forgiving, easy-to-drive-at-the-limit cars out there . . . I've personally had nothing but progressive "break-away" experiences on both street and Yoko A032R, both sedan and coupe, both stock and modified, on street, autox, track. Unless . . . I REALLY overcooked a decreasing radius corner or did something really stupid in standing water. Don't listen to Sean anyway . . . he drives way to fast and all his cars are broken and voodoo-cursed . . . ;-) (heehee) John '95 M3
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. Re: [E36M3] Driving Schools/Auto-xing-If not an M3, what car then? Any - from Ron Katona
Top
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:37:57 -0400 From: Ron Katona <rkatona@bellatlantic.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driving Schools/Auto-xing-If not an M3, what car then? Any nominations? Andrew E. Kalman wrote; > I thing the best car for a beginner to learn on is moderately fast, with > good brakes, and squealy, not-very-grippy tires. Just about any Alfa comes > to mind, but of course the newest ones are 7 years old (and convertibles -- > a no-no that you already recognize). I second that. My first school was in a 318ti on all season radials. That car is again on those tires and actually I've thought about taking it to another school in that condition just for kicks... too bad I've decided to sell it because it's a riot to slide around with those squealing tires! You do learn a lot about car control with low grip tires - sort of like your own private skid pad. A lot of people will pass you, but you'll learn a lot more. -- Ron Katona
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. Greetings from Michael Lord - from Jeff James
Top
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 07:19:42 PDT From: "Jeff James" <jdgtrski@hotmail.com> Subject: Greetings from Michael Lord I had the pleasure of having Michael drive my car and give me some pointers the other day at S.I.R. He mentioned how he used to waste, er, spend, a lot of time on this list and asked me to say "hi" to everyone from him. Jeff James '95 M3, humbled and inspired after driving with Mr. Lord ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. 95 Dinan SC Dyno #'s - from Jon Massengale
Top
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:16:25 -0500 From: jon@aestechnology.com (Jon Massengale) Subject: 95 Dinan SC Dyno #'s I dyno'ed my 95M3 with a Dinan supercharger kit this morning. I bought the car a couple months ago with the kit already on it. Dyno also had the air/fuel analyzer probe. HP curve was a very smooth climb until 6100 @ 275HP when it dropped off about 10rwhp from 6200 to and then back up to 270HP at 6700 when the rev limiter kicked in. On the fuel ratio the mix went from 13.6 at 2500 and slowly got richer to 6100 then got very rich (11.5) and then went back to 11.9 at 6700. It is obvious that the rich condition starting at 6100 was the cause of the power drop, but now I wonder what caused it to go rich at 6100? By the look of the curve if it had not gone rich it would have gone to around 290rwhp. Maybe Dinan plays it conservative by keeping it rich under high boost? TQ peak was 241 @ 5500 but stayed above 200rwtq from 3600rpm and up. Jon Massengale 95M3 Austin, TX
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. Re: [E36M3] 95 Dinan SC Dyno #'s - from Matt Henson
Top
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:44:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] 95 Dinan SC Dyno #'s Jon, You might want to take this to the bigboostgruppe but I'll take a stab at it.. You dynoed the car in Austin (where I live also) so I assume that it was like 90 degrees in the shop. There is a temp sensor in the intake manifold. I believe that the DME will add fuel when the temperature is higher. So take a hot day, add a S/C with no intercooler (or does the Dinan have have one?) and you'll get a really hot air charge, especially at the higher RPMs. Based on my experience with my turbo car I'd say that you get the most power at around 12.5:1. At 7-8PSI that A/F ratio is good enough to prevent detonation. At lower boost (<5PSI) and off the torque peak you should be able to run around 12.9-13.0. Maybe Jim can give some more insight here. -Matt Jon Massengale <jon@aestechnology.com> wrote: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:16:25 -0500 From: jon@aestechnology.com (Jon Massengale) Subject: 95 Dinan SC Dyno #'s I dyno'ed my 95M3 with a Dinan supercharger kit this morning. I bought the car a couple months ago with the kit already on it. Dyno also had the air/fuel analyzer probe. HP curve was a very smooth climb until 6100 @ 275HP when it dropped off about 10rwhp from 6200 to and then back up to 270HP at 6700 when the rev limiter kicked in. On the fuel ratio the mix went from 13.6 at 2500 and slowly got richer to 6100 then got very rich (11.5) and then went back to 11.9 at 6700. It is obvious that the rich condition starting at 6100 was the cause of the power drop, but now I wonder what caused it to go rich at 6100? By the look of the curve if it had not gone rich it would have gone to around 290rwhp. Maybe Dinan plays it conservative by keeping it rich under high boost? TQ peak was 241 @ 5500 but stayed above 200rwtq from 3600rpm and up. Jon Massengale 95M3 Austin, TX ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. ************************************************************* _____ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail <http://mail.yahoo.com/> - Free email you can access from anywhere!