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#1. Re: [E36M3] Bringing the M3 down a notch. - from Chris Casey
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:16:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Casey <ccasey1@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Bringing the M3 down a notch. Piete, How about getting an extra pair of 7.5" inch wheels with worn 225's and mounting them on the rear? This will give you less grip in the back (than stock), leading to less under- and more oversteer, at a lower threshold (Sean's #1 on his diagram moves further to the left). Then, you can remove those wimpy thin tires when you get home and restore your M3 to its normal magical setup. :-) I would guess you could take this to any extreme, getting as narrow as your wheel will fit. Any opinions? With everyone on bimmer.org either upgrading to 18"s or trying to go 8.5"s all around, there should be plenty of the stock fronts for sale at a decent price. Just be careful on those highway on- and off-ramps on the way to the track. -Chris > -------------------- 10 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:32:52 -0400 > From: "Pieter Van Dien" <pvd1@worldnet.att.net> > Subject: M3 for track, auto-x and learning-->can the > M3 be brought down a notch? > > I don't want to mislead anyone here, I love my M3. I > find it to be the best > road car I have ever driven, bar none, and feel > extremely safe on the > street. You can dodge a thumbtack in the road if you > have to let alone a > tipping Excursion. I don't want to trade in the M3 > for a ti, Neon, 2002, > etc. and I also don't want more cars than necessary > at this point, the boat > is already collecting cobwebs. > > Is it possible to bring the M3 down to a lower level > of handling for > learning purposes? I'm already using street tires > and cannot stress enough > how beneficial this has been on auto-practice days. > Going from RE71s to > Khumos is dramatic. With the RE71s, I'm forced to > focus on each corner, each > transition, before the car goes out of control. With > the Khumos, "just go > down to the end and turn" mentality takes over. What > else could be done to > slow the transitions, for training purposes only, to > bring the car into > ti/325 territory (no way to lower horsepower > obviously, just don't push the > pedal so far)? Lower tire pressure? Softer shock > settings? Remove sway bars? > > > Piete __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
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#2. Re[2]: [E36M3] Bringing the M3 down a notch. - from Andrej Dolenc
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:32:48 -0400 From: Andrej Dolenc <adolenc@erols.com> Subject: Re[2]: [E36M3] Bringing the M3 down a notch. > I would guess you could take this to any extreme, > getting as narrow as your wheel will fit. Any > opinions? My snow tires are 205/50/17 mounted on 17x8 rims. Andrej '97 M3
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#3. Re: Brake rotors - from Ron Buchalski
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 05:46:44 GMT From: "Ron Buchalski" <rbuchals@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Brake rotors Marcus, I attended the driving school at the Nurburgring last month, and I spent lots of non-track time checking out various cars around the lot. There were two E36 M3s parked next to each other, one with cross-drilled rotors, and one had the floating rotors. The rotors on both cars had cracks in them. The cross-drilled rotors had cracks which began at the drilled edges of the holes, and radiated out. The floating rotors had surface cracks. However, the cross-drilled rotors looked much worse, and had many more cracks (everywhere there was a drilled hole). Now, the drilled Porsche rotors (Movit kit) are cast with holes rather than drilled, and reportedly are more resistant to cracking. Of course, you'll spend about $5k to put them on all four corners. My advice: stay with non-drilled rotors, either the stock rotors (or the Brembo replacements). The Euro floating rotors are also great, and look cool, but you'll pay more for them. Good luck, -rb >Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 13:15:55 -0500 >From: "Marcus Groenig - SAS(Yield)" <MGroenig@SAS.Samsung.com> >Subject: Brake rotors > >Listers, > >Thanks to the E36M3 list I have a new stainless brake line (to replace the >one I sheared the fitting off of) on its way as we speak. This list really >is a great resource! > >Now, I've got another question for the group. I replaced the pads on my >old rotors and noticed they were getting a little thin (there is a >significant lip of unworn material around the edge of the rotor). On top >of that, the new pads are dragging on some raised surfaces (I think) on the >old rotors, making some interesting sounds. I'm going to need new rotors. > >What's the group's opinion on the various rotor options available? I've >heard good things about the euro M3 floating rotors, as they are quite >resistant to warpage. How about cross drilled or slotted rotors? I have >heard that typical cross drilled rotors can fracture around the drill holes >due to micro-cracks from the drilling process. I doubt that I drive my car >hard enough to cause this kind of fracture, but I'm concerned nonetheless. >The dissipation of gas buildup allowed by the drilled or slotted rotors >sounds like a big bonus though... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Bringing the M3 down a notch. - from Chester Wong
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:05:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Bringing the M3 down a notch. Uh....yeah...I'd be willing to trade my front 7.5" polished forged wheels for someone's rear 8.5 polished forged wheels. Any takers? =) Chester --- Chris Casey <ccasey1@yahoo.com> wrote: > How about getting an extra pair of 7.5" inch wheels > with worn 225's and mounting them on the rear? This > will give you less grip in the back (than stock), > leading to less under- and more oversteer, at a lower > threshold (Sean's #1 on his diagram moves further to > the left). > > Then, you can remove those wimpy thin tires when you > get home and restore your M3 to its normal magical > setup. :-) > > I would guess you could take this to any extreme, > getting as narrow as your wheel will fit. Any > opinions? > > With everyone on bimmer.org either upgrading to 18"s > or trying to go 8.5"s all around, there should be > plenty of the stock fronts for sale at a decent price. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
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#5. m3 handling ... sedan vs coupe... yada yada yada - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:08:03 -0400 From: "Paul Elliott" <pelliott@rcn.com> Subject: m3 handling ... sedan vs coupe... yada yada yada Ken, >well I think NASCAR guys say"push" or "loose" for understeer vs.oversteer when discussing car setup< I'm not really a Nascar fan or anything, but I have watched enough events to have picked up the fact that they usuallly describe 'push' and 'loose' as opposites....Push being understeer, and Loose referring to a 'loose rear end' as when the rear passes your front....a place they usually dont want to be! _____________________________ Paul Elliott '99 Alpine White M3; <20000 mi; Forged M dbl-spokes; Rotex pads; Dinan Stage II Supercharger
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#6. re: m3 handling - from Ron Katona
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:27:02 -0400 From: Ron Katona <rkatona@bellatlantic.net> Subject: re: m3 handling Michael Ting wrote: > However, he also said that when you are over the limit, the car gives almost > no warning, and it just snaps loose. By then, a race driver skill is needed > to be able to recover the car. And I'd agree with that 100%. But look at what you wrote: "when you are over the limit." Sure, there's little warning of what the car's going to do next and it takes a race driver's skill to save it at that point. That's why "both feet in" is the best plan then. However, going from under the limit to over the limit, I think there's plenty of warning. That's where the disagreement is. -- Ron Katona
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#7. re: M3 handling - from Ron Katona
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:35:26 -0400 From: Ron Katona <rkatona@bellatlantic.net> Subject: re: M3 handling Sean Hester wrote: > i'd expect a mustang to be a bit easier to deal with. maybe not a race > prepped one. but i'd bet a stock mustang is easier to deal with then a > stock M3. Really, why? I had a 88 5.0 LX and it was atrocious! Live rear axle, lots of torque, short wheelbase... these things really go from understeer to oversteer in a hurry. The M3 is way easier to drive fast and far more forgiving. -- Ron Katona
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#8. Learning curve: M3 vs beginner - from MFWM3@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 13:38:59 EDT From: MFWM3@aol.com Subject: Learning curve: M3 vs beginner I agree with everyone who suggests that you learn on a lesser car. I learned to drive in a 68 Valiant, auto, straight six, Sears best tires. You quickly learn the advantages of conserving momentum and brakes (fade faster than you would believe possible). Lots of friends with fast, V-8 machines. It always pissed them off to see me stay with them except on the straights. Graduated to a Triumph,VW, then a Honda, did Skip Barber's driving school, began autocrossing, moved up to a Miata and finally bought my beloved 98 M3/4. 5 drivers ed events and counting. Moved up two levels and hope to always be learning. I don't think you need to avoid an M3 when starting out with driving schools. But if you do, get yourself to an autocross or skid pad and find out the car's limits in a controlled environment before you go flying off the track during a drivers ed event with your poor volunteer instructor. Work yourself slowly up to the limits. Remember, the life you save may not be just your own. Michael Walsh 98 M3/4 cosmos black, stock, looking for a used set of 5 spoked forged wheels
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Rotor groove? - from Sean Hester
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:21:07 PDT From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rotor groove? >I dont know what would cause one >groove like this...I mean, no pebble trapped between the pad and rotor >would >be strong enough to score the rotor, would it? heck yeah it is. 95% of the time grooves ARE caused by something getting caught between the pad and rotor sometimes an imperfectino in the pa does it too. >So, what then? One groove >isnt enough to replace, is it, after so few miles? depends on how anal you are i guess. when you get new pads the groove might make the pads get a bump i then, then when you change rotors the bumpy pads will make a groove... and on and on. next time you change pads maybe get the rotor machined flat? or change pads and rotors at the same time? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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#10. Re: [E36M3] M3 for track, auto-x and learning-->can the M3 be brought down a notch? - from Sean Hester
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:29:51 PDT From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 for track, auto-x and learning-->can the M3 be brought down a notch? >I don't want to mislead anyone here, I love my M3. I find it to be the best >road car I have ever driven, bar none, and feel extremely safe on the >street. You can dodge a thumbtack in the road if you have to let alone a >tipping Excursion. I don't want to trade in the M3 for a ti, Neon, 2002, >etc. and I also don't want more cars than necessary at this point, the boat >is already collecting cobwebs. > >Is it possible to bring the M3 down to a lower level of handling for >learning purposes? I'm already using street tires and cannot stress enough >how beneficial this has been on auto-practice days. Going from RE71s to >Khumos is dramatic. With the RE71s, I'm forced to focus on each corner, >each >transition, before the car goes out of control. With the Khumos, "just go >down to the end and turn" mentality takes over. What else could be done to >slow the transitions, for training purposes only, to bring the car into >ti/325 territory (no way to lower horsepower obviously, just don't push the >pedal so far)? Lower tire pressure? Softer shock settings? Remove sway >bars? i think messing with the car to make it handle worse would be a bad idea. you'd probably just lower the overall tracion without making it more communicative about what mistakes it's covering up. just leaving it stock (tires too) is probably the best way to learn with an M3. P.S. despite my past few days of saying "an, r compound tired, fixed up suspensioned, M3 is a bad learning car" that's what i learned on. and i learned just fine. i think the reason is (as people have alluded to) that i was a good student. i "took it slow", i listened to instructors, i worked up speed slowly, etc, etc. there's really only going to be "problems" with M3s when you combine an M3 with an impatient/over eager student. i DO think i would have learned faster if i'd started in a different car. and i DO think i would have reached a plateau if i hadn't started driving different cars after 2 years in my M3. but... if you have an M3, use it. and learn with it. it's a great car. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com