-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. Re: [E36M3] E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 - from Adam Fila
Top
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:23:02 -0400 From: "Adam Fila" <ylf@mindless.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:15:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jason Bishop <jason@secondhat.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 > > I am now completely mystified. On speedvision they showed in-car > telemetry with Stuck going down the main straight where he hit 154. Then > they showed one of the barbour porsche's I think. I've forgotten which > one now. It hit 163 at the same point. 9mph difference is big. > > How come? Its aerodynamics or power right? If the power is the same, > then it comes down to aerodynamics? Something is fishy... Power is not the same. Porsche does have more, to the tune of maybe as much as 40-50 hp (at least this is what insiders estimate) > On another note, I'm not surprised to hear that bmw is going to pay more > attention to alms and m3's next year. They aren't impressing any > propective new M3 buyers... I doubt this will slow the sales down, at least in the first few years. > And whats with the drive shaft? Its been breaking for like 2 years now > right? 3 years? whats up with that... I am no expert, but I asked Milner about this, and he said the problem is that they can't perfectly balance an inline 6 engine. There will always be some vibration that makes it's way into the driveshaft and the rear end (excuse my lay explanation, I am no automotive engineer). This is what seems to kill them so often. However, I bet if BMW threw enough money at the problem they would be able to solve it. -Adam Fila '95 M3
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. Re: [E36M3] Union 76 100 Octane in Southern California - from Sue Kraft
Top
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:22:45 -0500 From: Sue Kraft <suekraft@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Union 76 100 Octane in Southern California http://www.bmwmpower.com/100_octane.htm Jim Powell wrote: > > Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:29:30 -0700 > From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@home.com> > Subject: Union 76 100 Octane in Southern California > > Taking a break from cop hating... > > Maybe this will make it through. Otherwise perhaps Suzy can post it on > her site. > > Jim
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. Brake Parts - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:27:09 -0700 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@home.com> Subject: Brake Parts The brake lines are taken. Thanks. Jim
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. M3 vs 911 - from Steve D'Gerolamo
Top
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:27:40 -0400 From: "Steve D'Gerolamo" <steved3@idt.net> Subject: M3 vs 911 Several times I watched the M3's outbrake the 911's in order to pass in the long-and-hard braking zones. This was just from my vantage point, though. But I have read Milner and PTG's drivers repeatedly say that the Porsche is faster on the straights for whatever reason. ================================================ Its interesting that Hans Stuck put Porsche brakes on his personal BMW daily driver (x5). We should have a rear kit for his car by the end of the year. Of course, some will say Hans doesn't use the brakes very often so it doesn't matter what's on the car. SD ========================================= Steve D'Gerolamo - The Ultimate Garage 201-262-0412 / steved3@idt.net / http://www.ultimategarage.com
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. Abnormal Rear End Behavior Under Power? - from Robert Biggs
Top
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 17:42:43 -0500 From: "Robert Biggs" <parm3@home.com> Subject: Abnormal Rear End Behavior Under Power? On 10/02 Matt Henson wrote: I've noticed some weird behavior in my Stage 1 Turbo > M3. Under hard acceleration the rear feels like it's > going to break loose but I don't think that the wheels > are slipping. It just feels like the geometry is > changing due to the acceleration. Is this normal? Matt -- first of all, it is extremely difficult for me to resist the urge to take this subject title off in another direction. Having said that, I too have been struggling with a rear end (attached to the car) that is unstable and unpredictable. TC Kline spent a full day inspecting various components of my suspension and ruled out most potential problems: alignment; spring rates; shocks and sway bar settings. At the end of the day, he thought the rear trailing arm bushings might be worn. But when removing the rear trailing arm, I discovered that metal surrounding one of the three bolts securing the trailing arm to the unibody was ripping away. And the torn metal condition existed at the same place on both sides of the car. I believe that less than rock solid trailing arm mounts allowed the trailing arms to move under acceleration and braking which really made keeping the car on the track a handfull. A local repair shop will strenthen the mounting points and hopefully that will cure my problem. I intend to take pictures of the torn mounting points and will share them with the digest. I am not aware of anyone else that has had this problem. But if I were you, I would not drive that car at 10/10ths until you know what is causing your handling problem Bob 96 M3
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. Union 76 100 octane - from Andy Chi
Top
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:37:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Chi <m3flyer@yahoo.com> Subject: Union 76 100 octane Ahh, my favorite Union 76 is the one at the end of 110 freeway into Pasadena. After a hot lap on the 110 freeway drifting my M3 at 6500rpm in third (and occasionally 4th for the long straight), I then heel and toe to 2nd and pull into the Union 76 station to fill up (92 only, no JC chip yet). Last I checked, it was 4.50... Without traffic, it's one of my favorite stretch of freeway. Andy 98 M3 black/black __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 - from Chris Casey
Top
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:50:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Casey <ccasey1@yahoo.com> Subject: E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 > From: Jason Bishop <jason@secondhat.com> > > ...Stuck going down the main straight where he hit > 154. ...one of the barbour porsche's...hit 163 at > the same point. > > How come? Its aerodynamics or power right? I read a few months ago that one of the team members made some comment about Porsche having an aerodynamic teardrop vs. the BMW "brick" (his word). Maybe this is the answer? Also, said team member was bemoaning the M3's narrower tires when compared to the Porsche's. -Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. Re: [E36M3] E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:59:09 -0700 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@home.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 Its also possible that the P-Car exited the previous curve slightly faster. By the end of the straight..... Jim Chris Casey wrote: > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:50:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: Chris Casey <ccasey1@yahoo.com> > Subject: E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 > > > From: Jason Bishop <jason@secondhat.com> > > > > ...Stuck going down the main straight where he hit > > 154. ...one of the barbour porsche's...hit 163 at > > the same point. > > > > How come? Its aerodynamics or power right? > > I read a few months ago that one of the team members > made some comment about Porsche having an aerodynamic > teardrop vs. the BMW "brick" (his word). Maybe this > is the answer? Also, said team member was bemoaning > the M3's narrower tires when compared to the > Porsche's. > > -Chris > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > *************************************************************
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. Re: [E36M3] Abnormal Rear End Behavior Under Power? - from Matt Henson
Top
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:11:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Abnormal Rear End Behavior Under Power? Thanks to all for the replies. I needed to get the car in for some service (one of the rear CV boots recently tore) before the next track event anyway. Yes, the wierdness started before the CV boot was torn. I don't think that there's a problem with the joint (yet). I'll post an update when I know what the problem is. -Matt --- Robert Biggs <parm3@home.com> wrote: > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 17:42:43 -0500 > From: "Robert Biggs" <parm3@home.com> > Subject: Abnormal Rear End Behavior Under Power? > > On 10/02 Matt Henson wrote: > > I've noticed some weird behavior in my Stage 1 Turbo > > M3. Under hard acceleration the rear feels like > it's > > going to break loose but I don't think that the > wheels > > are slipping. It just feels like the geometry is > > changing due to the acceleration. Is this normal? > > Matt -- first of all, it is extremely difficult for > me to resist the urge to > take this subject title off in another direction. > Having said that, I too > have been struggling with a rear end (attached to > the car) that is unstable > and unpredictable. TC Kline spent a full day > inspecting various components > of my suspension and ruled out most potential > problems: alignment; spring > rates; shocks and sway bar settings. At the end of > the day, he thought the > rear trailing arm bushings might be worn. But when > removing the rear > trailing arm, I discovered that metal surrounding > one of the three bolts > securing the trailing arm to the unibody was ripping > away. And the torn > metal condition existed at the same place on both > sides of the car. I > believe that less than rock solid trailing arm > mounts allowed the trailing > arms to move under acceleration and braking which > really made keeping the > car on the track a handfull. A local repair shop > will strenthen the > mounting points and hopefully that will cure my > problem. I intend to take > pictures of the torn mounting points and will share > them with the digest. I > am not aware of anyone else that has had this > problem. But if I were you, I > would not drive that car at 10/10ths until you know > what is causing your > handling problem > > Bob > 96 M3 > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > from the mailing list. > ************************************************************* > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. Re: [E36M3] E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 - from Chris Casey
Top
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:26:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Casey <ccasey1@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 Yah...nothing about driving a brick with narrow tires sounds particularly fast, regardless of whether its the shape or the (lack of) rubber that causes the comparitive (lack of) speed at the end of the straight. It seems likely that both have some effect. Isn't the E46 supposed to be more aerodynamic than the E36? And if the Porsches do well this year, won't the restictions that are placed on winning teams (more weight, narrower tires, etc.) in ALMS be reversed? (better for M3, worse for 911) This would seem to make the BMW factory involvement next year even more dramatic, if the team is allowed to run under fewer restrictions. For that matter, does anyone know the reason behind BMW sticking with 3.2L rather than bumping it to 3.4 or 3.6? Cost? Future V8 plans? -Chris --- Jim Powell <jsp98m3@home.com> wrote: > Its also possible that the P-Car exited the previous > curve slightly > faster. By the end of the straight..... > > Jim > > Chris Casey wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:50:46 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Chris Casey <ccasey1@yahoo.com> > > Subject: E46 M3 GT3 versus 911 > > > > > From: Jason Bishop <jason@secondhat.com> > > > > > > ...Stuck going down the main straight where he > hit > > > 154. ...one of the barbour porsche's...hit 163 > at > > > the same point. > > > > > > How come? Its aerodynamics or power right? > > > > I read a few months ago that one of the team > members > > made some comment about Porsche having an > aerodynamic > > teardrop vs. the BMW "brick" (his word). Maybe > this > > is the answer? Also, said team member was > bemoaning > > the M3's narrower tires when compared to the > > Porsche's. > > > > -Chris > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 > Free! > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > > > ************************************************************* > > List Commands > > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > from the mailing list. > > > ************************************************************* > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/