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#1. off topic -- 328i vs. 325i - from daanesh chanduwadia
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:42:31 From: "daanesh chanduwadia" <daanesh@hotmail.com> Subject: off topic -- 328i vs. 325i hello -- i think it comes down to what's more important to you: numbers (both on the trunklid and at the test track) or feel/drivability. for me the choice would be easy -- the 325i -- because the M54's electrobic throttle is such a huge improvmment over the M52TU's electromecanical one. i despise the early E46s with manual transmissions because -- like the 540is i've driven, they make you feel like a clutz on each shift. it's possible to master, but don't we drive BMWs because they cover for our mistakes? ;) the problem is with the electromechanical throttle (which holds the throttle open between shifts for a huge 'flywheel effect' and the clutch delay valve (which doesn't allow the clutch to engage firmly no matter how quickly you release it). the 328's engine feels husky at light throttle, but anemic when you leg it, the 325 makes no false promises, is prrogressive/linear and has a nicer induction/exhaust sound to boot. if you can stand the thought of being taken at a light by someone in a 328i or even a well driven 323i from a standing start, by all means go for a 325i. but be sure to drive both and see if this bothers you as much as it does me. note: people are drilling out the CDV on E46 and E39s, and there was a 'fix' for the M52TU involving a software update and a 3 rather than 2 wire cruise control switch. the E46 suspension packs are frustrating -- the standard suspension is way underdamped but has better ballanced roll stiffness and better wheel/tire sizing, the sport pack is 'as it should be' but has a lot of front bar and the 17" wheels and tires kill the ride and slow turn in (but help untimate grip.) if it were my car, i'd get the 325i with the standard suspension and fit the alpina kit, or order the sport pack and trade with someone who has 16x7s and 205/55s or 225/50s. drive a 325Ci if you want to see how this feels -- it's a great package (the sport suspension and 16" are standard standard on the coupe). also avoid fold down rear seats unless absolutely neccessary -- the torsional rigidity numbers on the E46 are: 18,000Nm sedan w/o fold downs 13,000Nm sedan with optional fold-downs 12,500Nm coupe with standard fold-downs 14,000Nm sport wagon with standard fold-downs 10,500Nm convertible these figures are of the force required to distort the chassis by one degree torsionally (SOurce: BMW Fast Facts 2001). good luck and let me know what _you_ decide, daanesh >>Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 11:55:52 -0700 From: "Patrick Barnicle" <pbarnicle@novell.com> Subject: Q: 99/00 328 or a new 325 I'm considering adding a 4 door 2001 325i or 1999/2000 328i to the garage. Both are close to the same price, so I'm asking for any feedback to those who have driven them. Is the sport package worthwhile? And finally, please let me know if anyone knows how much dealers are discounting the 325i off of sticker price. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#2. Re: Slightly OT: 911t (sorry) - from Chad Armstrong
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:47:22 -0800 From: Chad Armstrong <caarmstrong@epicor.com> Subject: Re: Slightly OT: 911t (sorry) Hey Paul, I just wanted to add one thing. A 911's power plant(pre-993)is very peaky. My track 911 which is a 1985 3.2L makes power that feels nothing like the M3. The motor on the 911 is "dead" until 4500 then it pulls like crazy up to redline(6500). So even a non-turbo 911 gives you the sensation that something hit you in the back at about 4500rpm but only instead of a garbage truck it feels more like a passenger car hit you. Where as my(our)M3 had a very linear torque curve that pulls strong from 2500up. However the M3 never "gains" that momentum feel at high RPM's in fact it feels like it trails off at about 6500. This torqey feel is what makes everyone love the M3 motor. Is my M3 faster than the my well no its not but if you were to just drive it around town casually you would sure think it is. The motors are just very different. I think if you were to ride around in a supercharged M3 you would be very surprised. You would still have the great torque feel but you would also get the pin back feel as the RPM's climb. I'm sure a Turbo M3 would do the same but the power would come on different. Best Regards, Chad Armstrong 99 M3 85 911
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#3. For those with Pole Positions - from Daniel
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:52:56 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel <m3_driver@yahoo.com> Subject: For those with Pole Positions Did you notice that the Pole Positions are larger in size than the Michelins even in the same size? Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/
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#4. Sachs Coilovers (Re: [E36M3] H&Rs) - from Bora Akyol
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:37:04 -0800 From: "Bora Akyol" <akyol@akyol.org> Subject: Sachs Coilovers (Re: [E36M3] H&Rs) Does anyone have any experience with the Sachs coilovers from BMP. Bora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kit Wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 1:43 AM Subject: [E36M3] H&Rs > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:42:58 -0800 > From: Kit Wetzler <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> > Subject: H&Rs > > > > hmmm... maybe everyone should stop all this talk of "what springs, and > > shocks go together?" and just go buy h&r coilovers? > > in short... I totally agree. :) It's just about impossible to get a > spring and shock combination that are actually designed to work together > by picking up random parts from the aftermarket. It's always going to > be a compromise at some point... H&R puts almost as much R&D into their > suspensions as BMW does, so there is a reason that they work so well. > I've been telling everyone that I know to buy H&R coilovers because I > love them so much. > > -kit > 97 m3 > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message. > ************************************************************* > >
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#5. 3.2L throttle body diameter - from Jim Powell
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:39:49 -0800 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: 3.2L throttle body diameter Anybody happen to know the outside diameter, in millimeters, of the throttle body inlet on the 3.2L M3 motor? Jim
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Re: Slightly OT: 911t (sorry) - from juan_rico
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:31:54 -0800 From: "juan_rico" <juan_rico@captionsinc.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Slightly OT: 911t (sorry) Chad wrote: However the M3 never "gains" that momentum feel at high RPM's in fact it feels like it trails off at about 6500. Ahem, try a 95 with a Dinan chip. In that rev range is precisely where I seem to pull away from other lesser cars. Just my opinion... Juan. 95 M3 with Dinan chip (useless before 5K RPM's) -----Original Message----- From: Chad Armstrong [mailto:caarmstrong@epicor.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 8:53 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Re: Slightly OT: 911t (sorry) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:47:22 -0800 From: Chad Armstrong <caarmstrong@epicor.com> Subject: Re: Slightly OT: 911t (sorry) Hey Paul, I just wanted to add one thing. A 911's power plant(pre-993)is very peaky. My track 911 which is a 1985 3.2L makes power that feels nothing like the M3. The motor on the 911 is "dead" until 4500 then it pulls like crazy up to redline(6500). So even a non-turbo 911 gives you the sensation that something hit you in the back at about 4500rpm but only instead of a garbage truck it feels more like a passenger car hit you. Where as my(our)M3 had a very linear torque curve that pulls strong from 2500up. However the M3 never "gains" that momentum feel at high RPM's in fact it feels like it trails off at about 6500. This torqey feel is what makes everyone love the M3 motor. Is my M3 faster than the my well no its not but if you were to just drive it around town casually you would sure think it is. The motors are just very different. I think if you were to ride around in a supercharged M3 you would be very surprised. You would still have the great torque feel but you would also get the pin back feel as the RPM's climb. I'm sure a Turbo M3 would do the same but the power would come on different. Best Regards, Chad Armstrong 99 M3 85 911 ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. *************************************************************
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#7. Re: [E36M3] I don't understand why..... - from Sean Hester
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:47:10 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] I don't understand why..... >I'm flipping through the beginning of Autoweek (Jan 8, 2001) and I see them >saying something about the Pontiac Bonneville SSEi and sports sedan. >Somewhere >in there BMW is mentioned... Hmmmm...$34,745 for a 3.8L supercharged V6 >that >puts out 240hp and 280 ft-lbs of torque for a car that weighs ~3800 lbs.... >That's a little expensive for a 'murican car, no? I'd get a 330i or >something...or a friggin used E36M3!!!! Yeah, baby...yeah (Austin Powers)! > >I just don't understand it.... isn't the bonneville alot bigger? so if you're more interested in carrying your wife and three kids and scaring them with all that power (and no brakes or suspension) the SSEi seems like a much better bet to me. the BMWs are too small for 5 people... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#8. Re: [E36M3] I don't understand why..... - from Bora Akyol
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:58:13 -0800 From: "Bora Akyol" <akyol@akyol.org> Subject: Re: [E36M3] I don't understand why..... I agree with Sean. We just bought a 2001 Mercury Sable Wagon with the 200-hp 24V V6, abs, all-speed traction control, side airbags and all amenities for $24K. My alternative a 528it did not even come with a rear facing third seat and costs around 40K. I love my M3, but I am not a european car snob. Right car for the job is what gets my money and when you have a family sometimes bigger is better. Bora Who doesn't feel like the 12-16mpg SUVs are a good value for the money. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [E36M3] I don't understand why..... > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:47:10 -0800 > From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] I don't understand why..... > > >I'm flipping through the beginning of Autoweek (Jan 8, 2001) and I see them > >saying something about the Pontiac Bonneville SSEi and sports sedan. > >Somewhere > >in there BMW is mentioned... Hmmmm...$34,745 for a 3.8L supercharged V6 > >that > >puts out 240hp and 280 ft-lbs of torque for a car that weighs ~3800 lbs.... > >That's a little expensive for a 'murican car, no? I'd get a 330i or > >something...or a friggin used E36M3!!!! Yeah, baby...yeah (Austin Powers)! > > > >I just don't understand it.... > > isn't the bonneville alot bigger? so if you're more interested in carrying > your wife and three kids and scaring them with all that power (and no brakes > or suspension) the SSEi seems like a much better bet to me. the BMWs are > too small for 5 people... > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message. > ************************************************************* > >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] I understand why..... - from Sean Hester
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:01:34 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] I understand why..... > I don't understand why..... [a person would spend] $34,745 for a 3.8L >supercharged V6 that puts out 240hp and 280 ft-lbs of torque for a car that >weighs ~3800 lbs. (The Poniac Bonneville) > >Well, I understand it. I wouldn't do it, but I understand. The Bonneville >is a pretty good American car. It doesn't handle that badly in SSEi form, >and the engine is torquey enough to move that 3800 lbs. around pretty >rapidly. Also, most importantly, you can't compare it to a 330 or a used >E36M3. You can fit a 3 series into a Bonneville and have room for a >weekend >trip's worth of luggage. This is important to some people. My parents >would certainly prefer a Bonneville (heck, we had one, they got sideswiped >by an eighteen-wheeler, knocked off the highway and banged around pretty >good and walked away with just some bruises). They feel safe in a bigger >car. Plus, my father fought in WWII and still prefers to buy American. > >Anyway, there's a longwinded attempt on my part to help you understand >why... > >- John "You can fit a 3 series into a Bonneville and have room for a weekend trip's worth of luggage." he said what i said... only better... ;-) for most americans, SIZE MATTERS. i'd much rather people that need the room, buy these cars, instead of some horrible minivan or SUV. the 3 series is a great sports car. yeah it has a back seat, but it's still a sports car. meaning it's small. i'd compare the bonneville more to a 528 then a 328. then the bonneville makes some more sense. it's bigeger then a 528 (on the inside at least) it's cheaper then a 528 it's as fast as a 528 (in a straight line) etc... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#10. Re: [E36M3] I understand why..... - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:23:15 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] I understand why..... I forgot about the size thang...just when they started talking about sports sedan and making comparisons to BMWs and then the price of the Pontiac just got me puzzled, ya know? I'm not a European car snob either, but I am a safety snob (all those Chester stories contributed to something) and I think that most German cars are built better than other cars and if I was a potential buyer that didn't care about size, the bimmer would be first pick easy. My previous car was a 1990 Olds Eighty Eight. Sure it had power, but when the road curved, you'd be a mighty brave person to take it at 75 - 80 mph. Then comes the power part....I don't understand why many *new* cars come with outdated engine technology like SOHV. I'm sure cost has a lot to do with it, but when the metal of an engine is recyclable and the gas that a large displacement engine (to compensate for something like SOHVs) uses is not....blah! No wonder Europeans hate America(ns)... I also like a recent shootout between SUVs which showed the X5 to be among the best in crash tests. I forgot the crash test, but there was minimal to no passenger compartment deformation whereas in other vehicles, there was severe deformation. I like Isuzu's (sp?) defense for the poor perforance of the Trooper, which pretty much sounded like, "sure the driver would have lost a toe, foot, or part of the leg, but he'd still be alive...." YAY! Don't get me wrong, I do value life and if a friend of mine was involved in an accident, I would be very relieved to find that he or she survived. But there is a difference between just survived and survived with just a bruise or scratch. Sorry for the OT commentary, Chester > "You can fit a 3 series into a Bonneville and have room for a weekend trip's > worth of luggage." > > he said what i said... only better... ;-) > > for most americans, SIZE MATTERS. i'd much rather people that need the > room, buy these cars, instead of some horrible minivan or SUV. > > the 3 series is a great sports car. yeah it has a back seat, but it's still > a sports car. meaning it's small. > > i'd compare the bonneville more to a 528 then a 328. then the bonneville > makes some more sense. > > it's bigeger then a 528 (on the inside at least) > it's cheaper then a 528 > it's as fast as a 528 (in a straight line) > etc... ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/