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#1. Re: [E36M3] crumple zones - from Sean Hester
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:50:24 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] crumple zones >BMW doesn't put a rear-facing third seat in the Touring models because the >rear portion of the Touring model serves as the crush zone for a rear-end >collision. i'm going to use this as a lead in to a quesiton that's been burning in my mind for a while. why are there crumple zones in passenger cars? instead of a rigid frame (roll cage) like in my race car? i assume it's one of the following. does anyone know the official answer? 1. crumple zones are actually better then roll cages. since they dissipate the energy of the crash into the crumpling metal, it's better for the occupants. a completly rigid car would transfer all that energy to the occupants. if it's this one, then how come my race car doesn't have crumple zones? 2. roll cages would cut down too much on interior space. sure... roll cages in street cars intrude. because they are added into a car that's already built. but if the cage was built into the car form the begininng, it wouldn't need to intrude all that much. 3. roll cages weigh too much. again... ones added to cars add pounds. but if were built in (a pillare were roll cage material instead of whatever they are now) it wouldn't add all that much weight would it? 4. roll cages cost too much. more then all that crumple zone research going on? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#2. Re: Sunroof Auto Open/Close? Feature - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:59:47 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Sunroof Auto Open/Close? Feature on 1/11/01 11:43, "eugene han" <gene501@hotmail.com> wrote: > I have a 97 e36 m3 with the sunroof (or is it called a moonroof), > By convention a moonroof is transparent, sunroof is opaque. > > My sunroof has the one touch--slides completely back function.. but is it > supposed to have a one touch- completely close function?? I can feel the > notch when I depress the button all the way, but it doesn't seem to work. The sunroof is supposed to open automatically, but not close. The auto close feature exists on other BMW models, but not the E36. The second detent you feel in the close direction of the switch is for the tilt feature, which only works from the closed-roof position. > the dealer claims that this is an issue they come accross alot and they > weren't even sure if the sunroom is supposed to close all the way or not. > they mentioned that it was something in the computer or some other bs.... Your dealer is ignorant... > Has anyone else experienced this issue?? You mean ignorant dealers? <g> Neil 96 M3
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#3. RE: [E36M3] crumple zones - from Zorine, Dmitri Y, CSCIO
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:01:12 -0500 From: "Zorine, Dmitri Y, CSCIO" <dmitri@att.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] crumple zones > why are there crumple zones in passenger cars? instead of a rigid frame > (roll cage) like in my race car? > > i assume it's one of the following. does anyone know the official answer? > > 1. crumple zones are actually better then roll cages. since they dissipate > the energy of the crash into the crumpling metal, it's better for the > occupants. a completly rigid car would transfer all that energy to the > occupants. ding, ding, ding! This is correct answer. > if it's this one, then how come my race car doesn't have crumple zones? 1. Your race car has 4,5,6-point belts tightly fastened around your body, street car doesn't. 2. Crumple zones were invented approximately at the same time seat belts were put in practice, I forget now, but they might've been in place BEFORE three-point seat belts. Imagine a car with rigid body or roll cage slamming into something and stopping abruptly slamming the body restrained only by the lap belt inside.... Dmitri
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#4. turbos - from Scott G Hemauer
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:23:57 -0600 From: "Scott G Hemauer" <Scott.G.Hemauer@aexp.com> Subject: turbos I am thinking of buying one of these systems......Please build and market this less expensive, better engineered and "fatter profit margined" turbo system. If it is in fact all three of these then I'm sure it would sell very well. I agree that some of these turbo systems are relatively expensive, but show me a better option. Scott Hemauer >>>>>>>>>>>> You paid a lot of money or that system so you figure that it's gotta be good. And it is good. But if it had been properly designed the price could be much less - even with a fat profit margin. I'm not gonna try to convince you of this because $10k+ out of your pocket can support a lot of denial to convince you that you spent it well. So my words are directed at people who are thinking about buying one of their systems. -Matt
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#5. RE: [E36M3] crumple zones - from Matt Henson
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:07:12 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] crumple zones This brings up another interesting point.. if you have a cage you should probably always wear the harness. Same goes for your passengers, no? Also, the caged M3 and other race cars still have crumple zones, right? I mean the cage only goes inside the passenger compartment and that's (hopefully) not part of the crumple zone. -Matt --- "Zorine, Dmitri Y, CSCIO" <dmitri@att.com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:01:12 -0500 > From: "Zorine, Dmitri Y, CSCIO" <dmitri@att.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] crumple zones > > > why are there crumple zones in passenger cars? > instead of a rigid frame > > (roll cage) like in my race car? > > > > i assume it's one of the following. does anyone > know the official answer? > > > > 1. crumple zones are actually better then roll > cages. since they > dissipate > > the energy of the crash into the crumpling metal, > it's better for the > > occupants. a completly rigid car would transfer > all that energy to the > > occupants. > > ding, ding, ding! This is correct answer. > > > if it's this one, then how come my race car > doesn't have crumple zones? > > 1. Your race car has 4,5,6-point belts tightly > fastened around your body, > street car doesn't. > 2. Crumple zones were invented approximately at the > same time seat belts > were put in practice, I forget now, but they > might've been in place BEFORE > three-point seat belts. > > Imagine a car with rigid body or roll cage slamming > into something and > stopping abruptly slamming the body restrained only > by the lap belt > inside.... > > Dmitri > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as > the > subject of the message. > ************************************************************* > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/
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#6. RE: [E36M3] crumple zones - from Sean Hester
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:11:55 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] crumple zones > > 1. crumple zones are actually better then roll cages. since they >dissipate > > the energy of the crash into the crumpling metal, it's better for the > > occupants. a completly rigid car would transfer all that energy to the > > occupants. > >ding, ding, ding! This is correct answer. > > > if it's this one, then how come my race car doesn't have crumple zones? > >1. Your race car has 4,5,6-point belts tightly fastened around your body, >street car doesn't. >2. Crumple zones were invented approximately at the same time seat belts >were put in practice, I forget now, but they might've been in place BEFORE >three-point seat belts. > >Imagine a car with rigid body or roll cage slamming into something and >stopping abruptly slamming the body restrained only by the lap belt >inside.... i'm still a bit confused. roll cages are good if you have a good harness. that makes sense. crumple zones are better if you only have a pretty worless seat belt. that makes sense too. but... which system is best for ultimate protection? the "cage/harness" system? or the "crumple zone/lame setbelt/airbags all over the place" system? since race cars use the "cage/harness" system, i'd assume that was the better way to go. do passenger cars use the "crumple zone/lame setbelt/airbags all over the place" system because the public doesn't want to be bothered with having to put in a 5 point harness when they drive? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#7. Re: [E36M3] crumple zones - from John Van Houten
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:23:42 -0600 From: "John Van Houten" <jvanhouten@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] crumple zones > 1. crumple zones are actually better then roll cages. since they dissipate > the energy of the crash into the crumpling metal, it's better for the > occupants. a completly rigid car would transfer all that energy to the > occupants. True. The energy of a crash has to go somewhere. In a "standard" 8pt, non-tube frame cage, a large percentage of the crumple zone is still there. The impacts on the body are different as well b/c in a race car you are held in place, whereas who knows where an average non-belt wearing idiot will be in during a crash. I've often wondered about this as well. There has to be a balance between stiffness and protection for production based cars. Even in F1/indy style cars, a lot of time is spent "designing for destruction" so that car absorbs as much energy as possible in a crash. Gustave Stroes has an interesting symposium on his e30 m3 site (http://e30m3performance.com/) with _tons_ of photos of various cars, mostly european touring cars. There is a lot of intelligent discussion around each photo. Especially interesting is a photo of a european race cars side impact protection: http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/cage_symposium/misc/misc4.htm Check the cage symposium out. It's pretty intersting. John 95M3 - Ice9 - wounded, and for sale 97M3/4 - Hers/daily driver
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#8. found an E30 M3! FS: 98 M3 titanium silver - from Roy Chiappari, Jr.
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:24:06 -0800 From: "Roy Chiappari, Jr." <rchiappari@tcresidential.com> Subject: found an E30 M3! FS: 98 M3 titanium silver Hello all! =20 I found an E30 M3 in great shape I should be picking up in the next few days. Sooo, I gots to get rid of the E36 and soon. I live right out side of San Francisco. I'm looking for $32,000 for the car. With that out of the way here's the low down. =20 98 M3 coupe in titanium silver with 38,000 miles on it. It has these modifications: Dinan CAI and flash programming=20 UUC Short Shifter and exhaust 17 X 8 (front) 17X 9 (rear) SSR Integrals with stock tire sizes. Alpine in dash 3 disk cd changer (I have the stock head for the car though) =20 The car was my daily ride back and forth to work. Never made it to the track (shame on me). =20 Now the no fun stuff. It was rear ended and has a new rear bumper. = The hood was vandalized, so I had a new one put on and painted rather then have the old hood filled. Its got a small dent on the rear quarter panel and a chip in the front window. Other then that the car is beautiful. The tires are S02 Pole positions in front and Pilot Sports in the rear. I know that's weird, but at this price you can buy new tires :) Here is the VIN: WBSBG9330WEY79700 Build date 4/98 I am the original owner. =20 =20 Please e-mail me or give me a ring for more info. =20 650-578-5081 work 650-994-0628 home and evenings =20 Thanks for reading =20 Roy =20
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#9. RE: [E36M3] crumple zones - from peter@guagenti.com
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:26:12 US/Pacific From: peter@guagenti.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] crumple zones > but... which system is best for ultimate protection? the "cage/harness" > system? or the "crumple zone/lame setbelt/airbags all over the place" > system? You're over thinking it. What is the name of the accessory we add to our race cars? ROLL cage. It protects the passenger compartment in the event of a rollover, flip, and other general directional impacts that occur other than the normal front/rear. The crumple zone for the front of the car is the engine bay -- you're protected. The crumple zone for the rear of the car is the trunk -- you're protected. The crumple zone for the roof? It's your head. That's why you need a roll cage. As an aside, a cage _is_ found in most passenger cars -- it's the metal cross members running through the doors that protects another impact area without a crumple zone -- the side of the car. > since race cars use the "cage/harness" system, i'd assume that was the > better way to go. do passenger cars use the "crumple zone/lame > setbelt/airbags all over the place" system because the public doesn't want > to be bothered with having to put in a 5 point harness when they drive? The three-point seatbelt is designed to hold you in _just enough_ that you don't go flying into objects inside your car. If you have a harness on without a roll cage, any intrusion into the passenger compartment could potentially do _more_ damage as you'd be pinned into a position, as opposed to being able to be pushed with the impact. Cars are incredibly safe for what they care -- 3000lbs. of steel hurtling at speeds that would kill you were you to impact something with just your bare body. Motorcyclists race at simlar speeds with a whole lot less protection. The three-point belt system, used in conjunction with airbags and a well- designed crumple system can let you walk away from most accidents. Adding harnesses and a cage _without using a helmet_ could potentially introduce more safety problems than it would help. -peterg. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using HiSpeed Technologies Webmail. http://www.hispeed.com
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#10. RE: [E36M3] crumple zones - from Sean Hester
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:44:22 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] crumple zones >Also, the caged M3 and other race cars still have >crumple zones, right? I mean the cage only goes >inside the passenger compartment and that's >(hopefully) not part of the crumple zone. for production, most cages extend a little into the trunk, but not into the engine area. that's more a "rules" thing. there's even rules about maximum mounting points. the rigid cage is good for handling, and they don't want people making their production cars into real race cars. but, for real race cars the entire car is a rigid cage. trunk, engine bay, everything. so... no crumple zones. ;-( _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#11. Re: bentley manual and stock Alar - from Ron Buchalski
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:49:31 From: "Ron Buchalski" <rbuchals@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: bentley manual and stock Alar Jonathan writes: > >Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:48:21 >From: "Jonathan Evans" <jonathanevans@hotmail.com> >Subject: bentley manual and stock Alarm > >I've promised myself not to upgrade the car until what is now installed on >the car is in perfect working order. > >So, my 95 that I got about 6 months ago has the alarm siren, the alarm >button on the keychain, but to the best of my knowledge, the alarm will >never, ever go off. It just beeps when you press the button. A reputable >stereo shop tried to hook up the door locks to Does the keychain remote have a fresh battery? What "just beeps"? Your horn? The alarm siren? Do you mean that it beeps when you lock/unlock doors? How did you test to see if the alarm works? In addition to activating the siren, the alarm system will flash the LED to indicate which zone triggered the alarm. So, even though your siren doesn't activate, does the LED at least flash 1-4 times (to indicate whether Zone 1, 2, 3, or 4 tripped the alarm?)? i don't remember which zones correspond to which areas of the car, but the four monitored zones are (in no specific order): Hood Trunk Doors Glass Does the keychain remote lock and unlock your doors? If so, then the alarm module is working. Maybe the alarms are being triggered, but your siren is bad, or the wiring to the siren is broken? You should be able to press and hold the PANIC button on your keychain remote and trigger the alarm. Does the siren work at that time? You can test your alarm's operation. For example, to test the 'Hood' zone, open your hood, close your doors, depress (and hold) the hood switch, then lock+double lock your alarm system (to activate the alarm). Is the in-car alarm LED flashing? Your alarm system is activated. Now, release the hood switch, and the alarm should trigger. You should hear three beeps, and then the alarm should go into full siren. You can test the trunk zone and door zone in a similar way, although you'll need to depress the little switch in the door jamb in order to 'fake' a door closure. To test glass breakage, you can rap your keys against a window. This will trigger the glass breakage alarm. > >Does anyone know where this alarm would be if there was one? I've been >told it is easy to install one, so how easy would it be to uninstall one? >Maybe the entire module is missing? The alarm module is located under the dash, behind the glovebox. If you remove the lower dash cover, you'll find it back there. While installing my gauges, I ran across the alarm module and discovered why my car wasn't tripping the alarm when the hood was opened - the installer never hooked up the hood switch wire to the alarm module. DUH! > >Does the Bentley manual have wiring diagrams for the alarm module in car >preinstalled wiring? Convince me to get a Bentley! I don't have the Bentley manual here, but it does have wiring diagrams in the back. I don't believe that you'll find a separate diagram for the alarm system, but the components and wiring (including color coding) are shown on one of the diagrams. -rb _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com