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#1. RE: [E36M3] knock-off Brembos - from MDadgar@handspring.com
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:37:50 -0800 From: MDadgar@handspring.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] knock-off Brembos John wrote: > I tried the knock off Brembos and PF90s thinking the same thing you are... > brand new pads/rotors (well, bedded in with about 400 street miles), > track-only combination. I did not have a positive experience. Despite > having never warped rotors before (6 drivers schools), I warped these > rotors horrendously 2 laps into the second session on the first day! The > wheel was literally pulling out of my hand. I installed a set of euro > floaters (same pads) to save the day and had trouble free braking for the > next day and a half of very hard driving. > This was probably not warped rotors, actually, but the PF90's depositing carbon on the rotor face (which they need to do to function effectively). Street driving will NOT cause the carbon transfer that the PF90's need. You just need to drive through this shuddering, as bad as it is, until the pads bed in. - Mark '95 M3 '97 528i 5-spd '88 M3, Hennarot ---- Mark Dadgar - Product Manager, Visor (650) 230-5037 voice - (650) 230-2100 fax mdadgar@handspring.com - Handspring, Inc Check out Visor at www.handspring.com!
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#2. '99 M3 FS and a FS Poll... - from Andy Korczynski
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:38:54 -0600 From: "Andy Korczynski" <andy@casskor.com> Subject: '99 M3 FS and a FS Poll... Anyone is interested: '99 M3 Red 19k miles Contour wheels with Pilot Sports (40% tread left) H/K w/CD Changer (doesn't the HK come with the changer anyways?) Sun Roof Heated Seats OBC Sharked AA Exhuast X-Brace Schroth 4 point belts (driver and passenger). I also have track wheels/tires and snow wheels/tires but I'll just sell those seperately. I just don't feel like taking the exhuast and belts off and trying to push a used x-brace is probably more hassle then its worth since you can buy a new one for $100-$120. I have the orginal exhuast and will throw that in as well if you want it. The car has been rear-ended ($3.5k damage fixed by Patrick BMW Authorized Repair Center, can't tell it was hit, but I don't feel right not disclosing it). I'm looking for $37k. ** BTW, there are usually a couple of FS ads a week posted on this list. Has anyone on this list actually sold a car because of this list? Just curious.... Andy K.
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#3. Tire storage - from Carey Probst
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:44:22 -0500 From: "Carey Probst" <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> Subject: Tire storage Another first time question. =20 This is the first year I've bothered getting a dedicated set of wheels and tires. =20 What's the recommended way to store them? =20 On the sides, on edge? Don't really have a place to hang them. =20 TIA =20 Carey Probst, '99 M3/2, BMW CCA Patroon and Genesee Valley Chapters =20 A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,=20 the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.=20
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#4. RE: [E36M3] Re: was EBC Red Stuff, now is the perennial track pad - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:43:42 -0800 From: Jim Bassett <JBassett@mayannetworks.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: was EBC Red Stuff, now is the perennial track pad thread! > Last year was my first year tracking the car. This year will > attend several > events plus Oktoberfest since it's close by. > > My question, what is effect of racing pads on rotors? > > Should I get track rotors to go with track pads? Will R4 or > pf-90s kill the > rotors? My experience with the PF90s is that they seem to be a bit harder on the rotors than stock pads. I do use a dedicated set of front rotors though, which, even though my braking technique is improved, I still tend to warp before they wear out :-) I don't have any direct experience with the R4 pads, but I believe their wear is similar. I've got second-hand experience with the Hawk Blues (Hi Donna! :-)). Donna's got them on her E30 M3, and the Hawks wore down the rotors quickly - the gas slots were wore flat after 2 events (Buttonwillow & Sears - not huge braking tracks). But they do stop well; I drove her car at parade-lap speeds (all she'll allow me <BFG>) at Sears and was very impressed with the stopping capability. I might consider trying them for my car the next time I need track pads. Hope that helps, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Day Running Lights - from Daniel
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:01:01 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel <m3_driver@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Day Running Lights Oh no...I just picked up my module yesterday from the dealership... I have a '99M3 Did you try to email Ron Styger? Dan --- Mark Zenz <mtzenz@excite.com> wrote: > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:47:35 -0800 (PST) > From: Mark Zenz <mtzenz@excite.com> > Subject: Day Running Lights > > Today I installed the Canadian Day Running Lights > Modul specified in > www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/electrical/e36_daytime_running_lights.html > but it > did not work on my 1997 M3. I followed the > directions, have the right > module, started the car and no day running lights. > Ron's writeup was > originally for a Z3. Has any E36 M3 owner tried > this? > > Thanks in advance, > > > Mark Zenz > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Send a cool gift with your E-Card > http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as > the > subject of the message. > ************************************************************* > > __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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#6. RE: [E36M3] knock-off Brembos - from Andy Korczynski
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:30:44 -0600 From: "Andy Korczynski" <andy@casskor.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] knock-off Brembos I concur. I had this happen to me at RA last year. I got PF90's, drove around on the street with them for a few hundred. Went to RA, and after two laps was shaking. Slowed down a bit, shake went away. Repeated this 2 or 3 times and then the problem went away entirely. Andy K. John wrote: > I tried the knock off Brembos and PF90s thinking the same thing you are... > brand new pads/rotors (well, bedded in with about 400 street miles), > track-only combination. I did not have a positive experience. Despite > having never warped rotors before (6 drivers schools), I warped these > rotors horrendously 2 laps into the second session on the first day! The > wheel was literally pulling out of my hand. I installed a set of euro > floaters (same pads) to save the day and had trouble free braking for the > next day and a half of very hard driving. > Mark D. wrote: This was probably not warped rotors, actually, but the PF90's depositing carbon on the rotor face (which they need to do to function effectively). Street driving will NOT cause the carbon transfer that the PF90's need. You just need to drive through this shuddering, as bad as it is, until the pads bed in. - Mark
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Re: was EBC Red Stuff, now is the perennial track pad thread! - from Sean Hester
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:58:05 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: was EBC Red Stuff, now is the perennial track pad thread! > > 1. pf-90. (best performance, most annoying (noises, dust, etc)) > > 2. R4. (little less annoying, little less performance) > > 3. hawk. (similar performance to R4, but even more annoying then >pf-90, > >Last year was my first year tracking the car. This year will attend >several >events plus Oktoberfest since it's close by. > >My question, what is effect of racing pads on rotors? > >Should I get track rotors to go with track pads? Will R4 or pf-90s kill >the >rotors? track pads go through rotors alot faster. no matter what kind/brand of rotors you have. at the track it doens't matter. you're gonna warp the rotots long before they are too thin. on the street it hardly matters. because you'd get 1-2 years from the rotors before they were too thin, and again, you're gonna warp them at the track long before then (unless you only do 1-2 track days a year) basically i'm saying that, for track use, rotors become an expendible item. replaced as often as tires and pads. it's just the way it goes. in fact, on my race car, rotors probably last me LESS time then pads and tires. the thing is... race pads cost more then rotors anyway. so i never really worried about worping rotors from a cost standpoint. the only drag of expendible rotors is the hassle to change them. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#8. RE: [E36M3] knock-off Brembos - from Sean Hester
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:13:46 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] knock-off Brembos >As a counterpoint, I've had exactly the opposite experience. I used PF90 >with floating rotors, and warped them. At nearly $250/set, this is not good >economics :-) So I've been running Brembos and PF90s for two years. After >about 4-5 events I start getting a bit of a wobble, so it's time to change >rotors. But at $90/set locally this is much easier on the wallet, even if I >changed them more frequently. > >But then, at the frequency that I attend track event (15-20 per year), >rotors are consummables just like pads. And in that case, inexpensive is >good :-) > >If you're only doing a few events a year, the floating rotors may be a more >economical solution, but I have not found that they resist warping any more >than Brembos. i think the key here is that floating rotors are a LITTLE more resistant to warping. meaning... if you drive really slow, and don't push the brakes, neither will warp. (so get cheap ones) if you drive really hard, and heat the brakes all day long, both will warp. (so get cheap ones) but there IS a middle ground in there where you'd warp the cheap ones, and not the floating ones. if you happen to drive in that envelope then floating ones are gonna be better for you. warping rotors (even though you wouldn't think so) is pretty much an instant thing. rotors don't warp a little each use, and eventually get warped enough to need replacing. for each session they either stay cool enough and don't warp at all, or they get too hot and instantly warp. this isn't 100% true, becase as the rotors get thin (used alot) the point at which they instantly warp gets easier to reach. but effect doesn't change from cheap rotor to expensive one. the point is. i could warp any set of rotors on an M3 (with no cooling ducts) in one 30 minute session of driving. weather they were $50 ones, or fancy floating ones. i could also (by taking it a little easy, or using brake cooling ducts) make a set of rotors last all year. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#9. RE: [E36M3] knock-off Brembos - from M3LTW
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:17:31 -0500 From: "M3LTW" <m3ltw@msn.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] knock-off Brembos My $2 (a little more that $.02): I agree. Having run stock and floating rotors on my M3LTW (prior to 6-pot calipers on massive 355mm rotors, which 340 hp requires), the floaters don't do any better than stock (or knock offs). Save your money and buy ducting. PF90s were the best pad on the M3 (personal opinion), but sucked with the AP calipers (Pagid Orange much better when you don't need so much torque). Interestingly, on my 325is racecar, the PFCs suck (in a relative way). They fade on super duty tracks (Road America), and that is with ducting on a very lightened car. Twice I went off due to PF90 fade, where other pads had NEVER faded on me (Hurry Downs). Of course, what I use now is a trade secret. By the way, 325 rotors are REALLY cheap (see TMS), so pad life matters more than rotor life, but winning matters most, and that is often the tire. My current pads last about a race weekend (then are good for at least one drivers school weekend), and the rotors about 3-4 weekends. Of course my pad criteria, in order; 1) No fade 2) Grip 3) No fade 4) Grip 5) Price (I guess) No where is dust, rotor wear, noise, or pad life in there (assuming the pads last at least through qualifying and race). > As a counterpoint, I've had exactly the opposite experience. > I used PF90 > with floating rotors, and warped them. At nearly $250/set, > this is not good > economics :-) So I've been running Brembos and PF90s for two > years. After > about 4-5 events I start getting a bit of a wobble, so it's > time to change > rotors. But at $90/set locally this is much easier on the > wallet, even if I > changed them more frequently. > > But then, at the frequency that I attend track event (15-20 per year), > rotors are consumables just like pads. And in that case, > inexpensive is good :-) > > If you're only doing a few events a year, the floating rotors > may be a more > economical solution, but I have not found that they resist > warping any more than Brembos. > > My 2 cents, > Jim Bassett In the end, floating rotors look cool, which may be worth money, but otherwise the economics always favor the Brembos. They all warp without (and often with) ducting. Dan Snyder
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#10. Sugarbush VT Black M3 spotting - from Dave Spragg
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:22:08 -0500 From: "Dave Spragg" <dspragg@mediaone.net> Subject: Sugarbush VT Black M3 spotting I had a fun run up the Sugarbush access road this morning. I was wishing I had the full blown Blizzaks instead of the Artic Alpines since the freezing rain from last night was covered with fresh snow and it was really slippery. So I get up there passing several stuck cars and trucks and one spun out bus and stat looking for a spot up front in the parking lot... and what do I see? Another M3!! This one was black and had an out of state license plate frame which I can't remember. If the hardy soul is on the list drop me a line. Dave Spragg dave@spragg.com Natick, MA 92 330is supercharged and Sharked 99 M3 Sharked