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#1. Brembo rotors - from Steve D'Gerolamo
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:37:52 -0500 From: "Steve D'Gerolamo" <steved3@idt.net> Subject: Brembo rotors This was probably not warped rotors, actually, but the PF90's depositing carbon on the rotor face (which they need to do to function effectively). Street driving will NOT cause the carbon transfer that the PF90's need. ========================================================= I had John send me the rotors and I measured them on the lathe....both were in spec. One had .06mm of runout, the other .07mm runout...no great readings but still in spec (BMW claims up to .10mm is acceptable (.004")). I suspect as well a transfer of material from the pads plus suspect wheel bearings. The rotors were trued to .025-.03mm and returned to John. He should install them on the hub/bearings and measure the runout to see if the .03mm measured on the lathe exceeds .10mm once they're installed on the hubs. SD ================================== Steve D'Gerolamo - The Ultimate Garage - Tel 201-262-0412
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#2. Re: [E36M3] '99 M3 FS and a FS Poll... - from Stan Shaw III
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:08:41 -0500 From: "Stan Shaw III" <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] '99 M3 FS and a FS Poll... I am searching for another car, and notice rarely are the cars for sale on this list appear to be great deals. They are frequently premium priced cars. I am not saying they aren't worth it, to the current owner. I paid $31,500 for my '96 M3 Lux 3 years ago with 45k miles on it, and commonly see cars on this list, in Roundel, and elsewhere with prices at essentially the same level. If someone is will to pay top dollar, then they are probably many good cars presented on the list. Just my two cents....YMMV > I sent a note about my 95 M3 last week on this list, and a few others. Also > put an ad up on autotrader.com, and a classified over the weekend in the > local Houston paper. > > Zero nibbles. I'm bummed. > > - Rich Regards, Stan Shaw Excell.Net Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0407 Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net http://www.excell.net/
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#3. warped rotors and Floating replacements? - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:33:14 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <pelliott@rcn.com> Subject: warped rotors and Floating replacements? I have an appt at the dealer tomorrow, while I wait, to mic the rotors and look for runout...Symptom is a bit of shimmy when I apply the brakes between 60 and 75 mph. Since the dealer says BMW considers warped rotors a wear and tear item if attained after the adjustment period, I was thinking of springing for Euro floating rotors, if it turns out rotors is what I need. But, I read several things today whicn make me believe that they are almost as likely to warp as stock, given equal conditions. Also, my dealer tells me he hardly ever sees M3 rotors warp. Given both these pieces of data, if I neeed rotors, I think I'll go for stock replacments, since its mostly street driving I'll be doing. _____________________________ Paul Elliott '99 Alpine White M3 <25000 mi Forged M dbl-spokes; Rotex pads; Dinan Stage II Supercharger; Stygar Short Shift kit and Clutch Stop; Skaggs Pedals; X-brace; Sound by Kenwood Excelon, Polk, JL Audio
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#4. Re: [E36M3] warped rotors and Floating replacements? - from NickG
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:40:20 -0500 From: "NickG" <nikog@MediaOne.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] warped rotors and Floating replacements? > I have an appt at the dealer tomorrow, while I wait, to mic the rotors and > look for runout...Symptom is a bit of shimmy when I apply the brakes between > 60 and 75 mph. Since the dealer says BMW considers warped rotors a wear and > tear item if attained after the adjustment period, I was thinking of Your dealer is yanking your chain. If the rotors (and pads) are not worn out yet, then warping is not considered normal wear and tear and the rotors are covered under warranty. Nick '95 M3 turbo
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#5. Re: [E36M3] warped rotors and Floating replacements? - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:49:02 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <pelliott@rcn.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] warped rotors and Floating replacements? Nick, On my former Volvo 850 Turbo, I warped the rears, and had non stock pads, and they STILL replaced under warranty...I talked to 2 different dealers today, and both say BMW universally refuses after the adjustment period to cover warpage.....Unless you have nothing better to do with your time, when the dealer takes a hard line attitude on this, there's not much you can do. And, besides the 2 I spoke with, I've talked to other owners who have had the same experience, so its obviously not an isolated response...I'm sure there are a few dealers willing to cover, or fight bmw to get the coverage, but from what I've seen, its not the norm. _____________________________ Paul Elliott '99 Alpine White M3 <25000 mi Forged M dbl-spokes; Rotex pads; Dinan Stage II Supercharger; Stygar Short Shift kit and Clutch Stop; Skaggs Pedals; X-brace; Sound by Kenwood Excelon, Polk, JL Audio -----Original Message----- From: NickG <nikog@MediaOne.net> To: Paul Elliott <pelliott@rcn.com>; E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] warped rotors and Floating replacements? >> I have an appt at the dealer tomorrow, while I wait, to mic the rotors and >> look for runout...Symptom is a bit of shimmy when I apply the brakes >between >> 60 and 75 mph. Since the dealer says BMW considers warped rotors a wear >and >> tear item if attained after the adjustment period, I was thinking of > >Your dealer is yanking your chain. If the rotors (and pads) are not worn out >yet, then warping is not considered normal wear and tear and the rotors are >covered under warranty. > >Nick >'95 M3 turbo > > >
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#6. re: now is the perennial track pad thread - from JEFFHARKER@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:47:49 EST From: JEFFHARKER@aol.com Subject: re: now is the perennial track pad thread Allow me to get in a word, I've had outstanding luck with Jurid OEM pads on my M3 which sees ample track duty. They have a nice controlled attack, are easy to modulate, but are a bit dusty (no big deal in my book). Somewhat unsolicited testimony can be given by long time listers; where are you Carlos? At last weekend's DEC conference, we found an unusually high number of serious incidents due some factor leading to catastrophic brake problems. Know your equipment, don't skimp on parts or preparation, and be mindful of the consequences. Brake problems don't happen in low speed areas where there is lots of runoff. --jeff
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#7. RE: [E36M3] re: now is the perennial track pad thread - from Seth Thomas
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:05:24 -0500 From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] re: now is the perennial track pad thread Thought I might chime in on this. My favorite pad so far is the PF pads. My car has the Movit/Porsche kit on the front with a set of PF93 and a set of PF90 on the rear. This combo works great for me at the track. While I really don't have to worry about warping rotors the pads work great. On street I switch to the front stock Porsche pads and leave the PF90s in the rear. On my old 318ti, I ran Hawk Blues on the track and they worked great with the stock rotors. I never warped the rotors or anything. No fade on them at all until it was time for them to be replaced. Seth Thomas www.m3ltw.com www.m3power.com
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#8. Steering the rear end of the car with the brakes - from Bora Akyol
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:12:14 -0800 From: "Bora Akyol" <akyol@akyol.org> Subject: Steering the rear end of the car with the brakes I steer the rear end of the car by using the brakes when I am autocrossing. When I was comparing techniques with several other listers, none of them said that they use this technique. I autocross on street tires, so I get quite a bit of understeer. I feel that when I am using the brake pedal in addition to the throttle to steer the car in tight turns, I get better placement of the car in the turn. I am however concerned whether I am doing the wrong thing. Anyone else used to steering the car using both gas and brake pedals while autocrossing, am I doing something wrong? Should I give up on using the brake to steer the car and just use the gas pedal instead? How much time do you think steering with the brake pedal is costing me? Thanks Bora Akyol 95 M3
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#9. Re: [E36M3] race pads. - from Sean Hester
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:41:42 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] race pads. >The Hawk Blue is better than the R4in my opinion... the R4 is much >harder to modulate and tends to crumble when overheated... (killed a set >of Laguna, good thing I had my 1/3 left worn out hawks with me...) hmmm... i guess you really have to keep R4 pads cool. (well... keep them "hot", as opposed to "way too hot") i never used R4 pads until i had my duct system installed. and they worked fine under those conditions. it seems that on a stock M3 (where temps get way way way way too hot if you're pushing the car for 30 minutes straight no matter what pads you use) the R4 pads don't cut it. this probably also explains why michael lord (a former list member that used R4 pads on an unducted M3) hated them too. it's one of the few things we ever really disagreed about. >The >blues are under $200 for front and rear, much cheaper than the >Porterfields. (of course this doesn't take into account the E36 list >discount, which I didn't know about until just now, but the blues are >still cheaper) > >the blues are harder on rotors when they're cold, but not much. i used hawk blues (and blacks when i wanted a little less friction) on my race car for a while. they did perform as well as R4 pads, but they were murder on the rotors. i craked my first rotor (as opposed to warping it) with hawk pads. and they also tended to "spark" a bit. little pieces of superhot metal would fly out of them (as if you were dearring metal on the ground) this isn't a big deal for a race car. but for people using pretty street wheels, this hot metal can scar the wheels. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Re: was EBC Red Stuff, - from Sean Hester
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:55:02 -0800 From: "Sean Hester" <seanh_race@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: was EBC Red Stuff, >It's so interesting to see how different everyone's experiences are. >Some people manage to get by with stock rotors and without ducting >and rarely replacing rotors, and others can't live without ducts and >warp rotors constantly. this is 75% due to driving style. or driving speed to be more direct. if you're taking it easy down the front straight at SIR you enter the braking zone for turn 2 at about 90. you only have to slow to about 60 so it's pretty light braking actually. on a good day i'd enter the braking zone for turn two at 138. this makes for ALOT more braking. if you're taking it easy, you leave turn two 10 seconds later at about 70 and mosey down the hill to enter turn 3a where you have to slow to about 30. on a good day i'd exit turn two after maybe 7 seconds at about 85 have to go to 4th before turn 3a. so... again i have ALOT more braking, and more importantly, 1/3 less time for cooling between hard brake applications. same story for turn 5a. the "official school policy" is "enter the turn up the hill, slowing GENTLY because threshold braking is way too dangerous at this spot". result? no hard breaking, and more importantly, LOTS of time between turn 3 and turn 8 for the brakes to cool off. but, if you're crazy like me, you DO threshold brake at turn 5a. not only adding more heat, but halving the cooling time. a taking it easy lap is about 1:55. my best laps were about 1:42. so, it doesn't really seem like i'm working that much harder, but i'll bet i'm using the brakes 3-4 times as hard. it's also 24% due to the track and weather. the two tracks close to me (SIR and bremerton) are MURDER in brakes. lots of hard stops with no cooling time. PIR and t-hill on the other hand are easy on brakes. i don't think i've EVER warped a rotor at either of those places. those are the two main reasons why some people need 3 inch ducts, fancy pads and rotors, and some people never warp their stock setup. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com