-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. RE: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? - from Greg Cernosek
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:04:20 -0600 From: "Greg Cernosek" <gcernosek@inetx.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? I don't have mine installed yet, so I am not sure how this plays out. From what I understand, it is not uncommon to have aftermarket springs fall from their perches when you jack the car up high enough so the rear suspension is at full droop. I could be wrong since I don't have my system installed yet, I am just trying to make sure I have all the parts I need to do the install. It sounds like you are suggesting the "helper" springs. Greg -----Original Message----- From: Joe Dyer [mailto:joedyer@home.com] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:53 PM To: Greg Cernosek; E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? Greg, If the springs fall off their perches when you jack up the car, then they will fall off their perches in a hard corner! I think springs should be preloaded so that they are always in contact with both top and bottom perches! Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Cernosek" <gcernosek@inetx.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 11:37 AM Subject: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? | Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:32:40 -0600 | From: "Greg Cernosek" <gcernosek@inetx.com> | Subject: Are you running short springs in the back? | | Group, | | I am about to install my Ground Control coil-over setup. I am curious, what | is the popular method for preventing short springs from falling off their | perches when you jack the car up? One of my buddies has used a special | spring for this purpose. It is supposed to have zero rate (won't affect | spring rate) and be only 1/4" tall when fully compressed. The down side is | they are pretty darn expensive (he paid $55 each for them). I may have to | do the same, but thought I would check with the list first. | | TIA, | Greg | | | ************************************************************* | List Commands | UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. | DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. | GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). | | To issue a command/request to the server: | Send a message with the command you wish executed as the | subject of the message. | ************************************************************* | | |
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. Re: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? - from Donna Seeley
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:27:01 -0800 From: Donna Seeley <dseeley@infoasis.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? There are three cars with coilovers that I've seen jacked up often. Navid's come loose and there's a LOUD SNAP when they go back in. I don't remember ever hearing that with Ochi's or JF's. Donna ------- 88 M3, "Guido" 95 330isA, super-commuter > > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:53:24 -0800 > From: "Joe Dyer" <joedyer@home.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? > > Greg, > > If the springs fall off their perches when you jack up the car, then they > will fall off their perches in a hard corner! I think springs should be > preloaded so that they are always in contact with both top and bottom > perches! > > Joe > ----- Original Message ----- > > | Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:32:40 -0600 > | From: "Greg Cernosek" <gcernosek@inetx.com> > | Subject: Are you running short springs in the back? > | > | Group, > | > | I am about to install my Ground Control coil-over setup. I am curious, > what > | is the popular method for preventing short springs from falling off their > | perches when you jack the car up? One of my buddies has used a special > | spring for this purpose. It is supposed to have zero rate (won't affect > | spring rate) and be only 1/4" tall when fully compressed. The down side > is > | they are pretty darn expensive (he paid $55 each for them). I may have to > | do the same, but thought I would check with the list first. > | > | TIA, > | Greg > |
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. Re: Torque Rotation - from Scott Yu
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:27:08 -0500 From: "Scott Yu" <scott@ditherdog.com> Subject: Re: Torque Rotation I doubt this is the cause, but someone on bimmerforums.com had a problem that sounded a bit similar - turns out the tire shop he used for balancing was unaware of the staggered M3 configuration when they replaced the tires on the car. yikes. btw - as the the Anal Retentive Championship standings, I'd have to give my vote to Alan - he was crazy enough to do the complete euro rear vent window motor conversion. I'm so sick of the US coupe rear windows, I'm getting tempted to just get some plexiglass and permanently bond 'em to the body. scott yu boston (40 degrees today!) > Subject: Re: Torque Rotation > > on 2/15/01 1:47 PM, WCRoswell@aol.com wrote: > > > What would cause torque rotation counterclockwise (right rear seems to want > > to come around) under WOT inb first or second gear? Also floaty feeling at > > 70 mph
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. Re: Are you running short springs in the back? - from Vern Anderson
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:30:49 -0500 From: Vern Anderson <VAnderson@IVW.com> Subject: Re: Are you running short springs in the back? Greg, I have a GC c/o setup and my rear springs will only fall out if I jack up both rear wheels (lift, two jackstands, etc.). Jacking up one side of the car to put wheels on with a regular floor jack has never caused them to move. The suspension just doesn't droop enough with only one wheel off the ground to allow the spring to move. Of course, as soon as you lift the other side off and get both rear wheels airborne, both springs flop out of place immediately. I just gently place them back right before letting the car down and make sure they are correct before I put all of the weight on. A small hassle, but not a huge one. As far as driving, there is absolutely no way they would ever come out while in motion unless you do lots of Bullit-type driving in San Fran (which would be kinda rough on the bottom of an M3....) Vern Anderson 98 M3/2 w/ little tiny springs in back that want to flop around but I don't let them :) >-------------------- 7 -------------------- >Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:32:40 -0600 >From: "Greg Cernosek" <gcernosek@inetx.com> >Subject: Are you running short springs in the back? > >Group, > >I am about to install my Ground Control coil-over setup. I am curious, what >is the popular method for preventing short springs from falling off their >perches when you jack the car up? One of my buddies has used a special >spring for this purpose. It is supposed to have zero rate (won't affect >spring rate) and be only 1/4" tall when fully compressed. The down side is >they are pretty darn expensive (he paid $55 each for them). I may have to >do the same, but thought I would check with the list first. > >TIA, >Greg
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: Are you running short springs in the back? - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:45:41 -0800 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Are you running short springs in the back? I can get my car airborne on Magic Mountain, Buttonwillow, at will. If I had a car that let the springs fall out I think I'd look into replacing things or inventing a safety strapping method. Anybody else want to contemplate the 'landing area of Magic Mountain with your springs out? <shiver> Jim Vern Anderson wrote: Greg, > I have a GC c/o setup and my rear springs will only fall out if I jack up > both rear wheels (lift, two jackstands, etc.). Jacking up one side of the > car to put wheels on with a regular floor jack has never caused them to > move. The suspension just doesn't droop enough with only one wheel off the > ground to allow the spring to move. Of course, as soon as you lift the > other side off and get both rear wheels airborne, both springs flop out of > place immediately. I just gently place them back right before letting the > car down and make sure they are correct before I put all of the weight on. > A small hassle, but not a huge one. As far as driving, there is absolutely > no way they would ever come out while in motion unless you do lots of > Bullit-type driving in San Fran (which would be kinda rough on the bottom of > an M3....)
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. Re: Max speed - from Chip Mitchell
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:50:54 -0500 From: "Chip Mitchell" <chipm@arches.uga.edu> Subject: Re: Max speed The original question was to determine the max speed at the rev limiter. Because here RPM is a known quantity, terminal velocity (i.e. air resistance) does not figure into the calculation. Therefore, couldn't you simply multiply the RPM, gear ratio, rear end ratio, and tire circumference to find max speed? For example, 7000 rev/min x 1/1 fifth gear x 3.15/1 rear end x 6.397076 ft (circumference of 235/40-17 tire) x 60min/hour x 1 mi/5280 ft = 161.54 miles per hour. Change to a 3.23 and you've got 157.54 miles per hour. Makes sense to me - anyone who knows better care to differ? ChipM ---------Included Message---------- >-------------------- 6 -------------------- >Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:31:31 -0800 >From: "jstrozza@cisco.com" <jstrozza@cisco.com> >Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 MAX Speed > >Max speed is NOT an Algebraic relationship between speedometer and >RPMs. First of the fast the car moves the more inaccurate the speedometer >becomes. I'm certain BMW has the figures for accuracy at 60, 80, 100, 120. >Also there is a max. velocity that the car can travel. Terminal velocity >where a point where the air resistance (PAC.d) is going to be greater than >the max acceleration of the car. M3's are designed to hit 155. I'd be >curious to know if the European versions top out higher. Does any anybody >have figures on the stock Euro M3's top out vs. a US M3 with the >Dinan upgrade SWF with out the governor. > >
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. Re: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? - from James Clay
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:50:30 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? Tender springs are definitely the good way to go here. However, you really shouldn't have a problem without them. I have my rear perches all the way down on one of the race cars and I do not think they are allowed off the top perch at full suspension droop. However, this will vary depending on the extended length of your shock. I had a set on another car that I ran for 2 years and never had a problem - top could definitely have popped out. Not saying it is good, but the only chance they will have to pop out is both wheels on the axle off the ground for a bit (more than just a quick hop. Otherwise the antisway bars and shock rebound will keep them in place. James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com Engineered BMW Performance BMWCCA/SCCA Racecar Rental Genuine OEM and Used BMW Parts (540) 639-9648 Please copy original message text in all correspondences.
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. RE: [E36M3] Re: Are you running short springs in the back? - from Mount, Mike
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:56:14 -0800 From: "Mount, Mike" <JMMn@pge.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Are you running short springs in the back? Ummm, which landing area are we talking about? The one used by most track participants, or the one used by an M car at full boost? (Is that like using JATO?) Think Magic Mountain is bad? He he, try taking Hwy 58 from 101 up to Buttonwillow through California Valley(it's the back way). Talk about driving like in the movie "Bullitt", my M3 goes airborne at around 110 on some sections. Err, hypothetically I mean. Mike drive it like you just stole it >snip< Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Are you running short springs in the back? I can get my car airborne on Magic Mountain, Buttonwillow, at will. If I had a car that let the springs fall out I think I'd look into replacing things or inventing a safety strapping method. Anybody else want to contemplate the 'landing area of Magic Mountain with your springs out? <shiver>
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. Re: MAX SPEED indicator (was Work in Progress) - from Ron Buchalski
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:07:48 From: "Ron Buchalski" <rbuchals@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MAX SPEED indicator (was Work in Progress) Yes, hypothetically. ;-) I guess your method would provide a close approximation. After all, I would never want to drive my car that fast to really find out! -rb >Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:02:42 -0500 >From: Robert Jackowitz <RJackowitz@HARVPART.COM> >Subject: MAX SPEED indicator (was Work in Progress) > >Ron, >Are you saying that, hypothetically, you hit the 7,000 rev limited in top >gear? You should be able to calculate it algebraically. For example, if >your car does 82 mph and 3,500 rpm, then it should do 164 at 7,000 rpm. Of >course, that doesn't take into account the typical speedo errors, but you >get the idea. > >Rob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. Re: [E36M3] Re: Are you running short springs in the back? - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:10:21 -0800 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Are you running short springs in the back? My last spin was an airborne incident. Recipe for disaster: Car at about 300 HP acclerating hard up the hill in third, about 6 psi of boost. Car gets air, no resistance to motor acceleration. Motor goes to near redline from about 4500 RPM. Motor now making approx 410 HP at 11 psi (guesstimate) Car lands, front suspension at full load, rear tires spinning like mad. Fully loaded suspension doesn't catch, rearend comes around to see what all the fun is about. The car is scared shitless and decides to run off track. Most of the dirt in the central valley comes in to mock me Sissy pants instructor feels this is bad form and decides not to put me in A Group for next run group :) Jim "Mount, Mike" wrote: > Ummm, which landing area are we talking about? The one used by most > track participants, or the one used by an M car at full boost? (Is that > like using JATO?) > Think Magic Mountain is bad? He he, try taking Hwy 58 from 101 up > to Buttonwillow through California Valley(it's the back way). Talk about > driving like in the movie "Bullitt", my M3 goes airborne at around 110 on > some sections. Err, hypothetically I mean. > Mike
-------------------- 11 --------------------
#11. New Kumho - from DiVincenti, A.J.
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:11:13 -0600 From: "DiVincenti, A.J." <ADiVin@lsuhsc.edu> Subject: New Kumho What is the reported differences between the old Kumho V700 and the new tire. Which will be superior for autox? Since the Kumho 225 45 17 measurements were really closer to most other 235 40's, I wonder how the new 235 40 will measure out? A.J.
-------------------- 12 --------------------
#12. RE: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? - from Greg Cernosek
Top
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:08:48 -0600 From: "Greg Cernosek" <gcernosek@inetx.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? Thanks to everyone for the responses! I think I understand the issues. If mine do fall out at full droop I will definitely get the tender springs. I just realized something else too. Jay at Ground Control told me that my rear shocks were shortened. I bet this was to limit the travel so this wouldn't happen. We will see when I bolt everything in tonight! Wish me luck! Greg -----Original Message----- From: James Clay [mailto:james@bimmerworld.com] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 2:58 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:50:30 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Are you running short springs in the back? Tender springs are definitely the good way to go here. However, you really shouldn't have a problem without them. I have my rear perches all the way down on one of the race cars and I do not think they are allowed off the top perch at full suspension droop. However, this will vary depending on the extended length of your shock. I had a set on another car that I ran for 2 years and never had a problem - top could definitely have popped out. Not saying it is good, but the only chance they will have to pop out is both wheels on the axle off the ground for a bit (more than just a quick hop. Otherwise the antisway bars and shock rebound will keep them in place. James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com Engineered BMW Performance BMWCCA/SCCA Racecar Rental Genuine OEM and Used BMW Parts (540) 639-9648 Please copy original message text in all correspondences. ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. *************************************************************