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#1. Re: [E36M3] Woohoo! VIR BMW Tarheel driving school - from Peter H Reinhart
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:16:31 -0500 From: Peter H Reinhart <reinhart@neuro.duke.edu> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Woohoo! VIR BMW Tarheel driving school At 10:37 AM 3/12/01 Jonathan wrote: Subject: Woohoo! VIR BMW Tarheel driving school >I'm now more determined than ever to upgrade the suspension FIRST. The car >has WAY too much power for me to handle right now. I could tell I was >saving myself in the straight always. So X-brace, set of wheels and street >tires and some sway bars, new shocks, and 5 more schools this year, and >maybe a tow vehicle and camper and... And I heard this was an expensive Hey, welcome to the world of the Track Junkie, Jonathan: VIR is just an amazing track incorporating big elevation changes aptly, named the Roller Coaster and the Uphill Esses, and 'lots' of other corners (>20?). Last weekend was close to perfect (as long as you weren't camping there, mid 20's at night is a bit too cold for me....). The sessions were on time, the facilities excellent, and lunch was provided...... About your upgrades - I'd make 'five more schools' item 1 on the list. The E36M3 is a great track car straight out of the box. Most of us need 'many' track weekends to get even close to the potential of the car in stock form. Also for all you southeastern addicts wanting a VIR fix, the local Z-club is running a combined Time Trial DE weekend over Easter (April 14,15) on the challenging South course. Info at http://www.thscc.com/timetrial/events/2001_vir-south_april14-15.html or email Mark Vitacco at <mvitacco@nc.rr.com>. Last weekend there were still slots open. Cheers, Peter Reinhart - http://www.neuro.duke.edu/phr/m3.html NCC/Tarheel Chapters BMWCCA, NASA, PCA (E36 M3/4)
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#2. What could I have said? - from Jay
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:48:53 -0800 From: jay@pactitle.com (Jay) Subject: What could I have said? I'm sorry but i have no idea what i said can you forward me the message with my apologizes. Jay 95M3sharked.intaked
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#3. WTB: Mille Miglia Evo Sports or Spiders - from F. Graziano
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:59:09 -0500 From: "F. Graziano" <fgraziano@monmouth.com> Subject: WTB: Mille Miglia Evo Sports or Spiders im looking to buy these in either 17 or 18" flavors. Any listers selling? Thanks, Frank =20
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#4. Re: trade in valude of my '97 M3 - from George M. Kofman
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:51:05 -0600 From: "George M. Kofman" <sdg2@execpc.com> Subject: Re: trade in valude of my '97 M3 FWIW, KBB is always very optimistic. Edmuds, which *usually* is more on the money, came in at ~24K trade in for my car. So, the real value is somewhere in the very low 20's, not that far off the 19K. I bet if they had a car on the lot for me to drive away with, I would have had a 21-22K trade-in valude. Or probably a little higher. Since I would have ordered a sports-chassis option (not popular, go figure) it would mean special order and June delivery. Thus, my M3 would have had over 60K miles thus the low trade in. I don't think I am going the Boxster S route. I may just save my pennies and buy a used Caterham/Lotus Super 7, while keeping the M3 for a daily driver. If I do that, I will feel pretty stupid for saving $600 and not getting a 100,000/6 yr ext warranty (got 2yr/75K)... GMK '97 M3 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Elliott" <pelliott@rcn.com> To: <sdg2@execpc.com> Cc: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 7:55 AM Subject: trade in valude of my '97 M3 > For what its worth, I looked up in Kelly Bluebook the value of your car in > your area as a tradein.....I listed your car as being in 'good' condition, > the definition for which you'll find below...It does seem, as is always the > case, that the dealer uses his own book for values..In my area, they all use > something called the Galves book.....I dont think youll see that in any > stores....It must be something which contains lowball prices which only the > dealers use, to make sure theyre consistantly about $3-5K below the true > market value, guaranteeing them a profit when they dispose. > > > 1997 BMW 3 Series M3 Sedan 4D > > > > > Engine: 6-Cyl. 3.2 Liter > Trans: 5 Speed Manual > Drive: Rear Wheel Drive > Mileage: 56,000 > > Ways to Buy a Used Car > > Ways To Buy a New Car > > List Your Car For Sale Online > > Financing Quote > > Insurance Quote > > Warranty Quote > > Parts & Accessories > > Payment Calculator > > > Equipment > Air Conditioning > Power Steering > Power Windows > Power Door Locks > Tilt Wheel > AM/FM Stereo > Cassette > Dual Air Bags > ABS (4-Wheel) > Traction Control > Leather > Sliding Sun Roof > Alloy Wheels > > > > Consumer Rated Condition: Good > "Good" condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. The > paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are > no major mechanical problems. In states where rust is a problem, this should > be very minimal, and a deduction should be made to correct it. The tires > match and have substantial tread wear left. A clean title history is > assumed. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at > retail; however major reconditioning should be deducted from the value. Most > recent model cars owned by consumers fall into this category. > > > Trade-In Value $22,550 > Trade-in value represents what you might expect to receive from a dealer for > this consumer owned vehicle. Keep in mind that the dealer must then absorb > the cost of making the vehicle ready for sale, advertising, sales > commissions, arranging financing and insurance and standing behind the > vehicle for any mechanical or safety problems. > > > > > > _____________________ > Paul Elliott > '99 Alpine White M3 <25000 mi Forged M dbl-spokes; Rotex pads; Dinan Stage > II Supercharger; Stygar Short Shift kit and Clutch Stop; Skaggs Pedals; > X-brace; Sound by Kenwood Excelon, Polk, JL Audio > >
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#5. Euro Air Box - from Lloyd
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:00:56 -0800 From: "Lloyd" <lmats@earthlink.net> Subject: Euro Air Box Does anyone have the part numbers for the M3/2 Euro Air Box and HFM? I have heard that Dinan sells this air box for around $400.00, is this the same as the Euro? Thanks, Lloyd
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#6. Spring Rates - from bs
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:41:09 -0500 From: "bs" <m3bs@home.com> Subject: Spring Rates Anybody know what stock spring rates were for a 95 M3?
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#7. My GC Coilover setup (long) - from Greg Cernosek
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:37:42 -0600 From: "Greg Cernosek" <gcernosek@inetx.com> Subject: My GC Coilover setup (long) Hello, I am sorry it has taken me so long to post my impressions of my new Ground Control Coil Over setup. I was waiting until I could get the car on the track to see what it would do under those conditions. Well, I finally made it out to Motorsport Ranch last weekend so... First off, my setup (on a 98 M3/4): Front Ground Control E36M3 Coil-Over housings Koni Double Adjustable inserts 300# Eibach 7" Coil-over springs Stock strut hats swapped left to right Rear Ground Control adjustable spring perches (Coil-near) Koni SA rear shocks converted to externally double adjustable 450# Eibach 6" Coil-over springs Ground Control rear trailing arm bushing spacers (GC-RTABS?) Ground Control rear shock mounts (bushings, not bearings) Other (suspension related) stuff: Eibach sway bars 26mm Front - 24mm Rear X-Brace Strut Barbarian (front strut tower brace) The installation: I first had to remove my stock front struts and use a spring compressor to remove the stock hats for transfer to the GC setup. There was nothing special to this except when putting the stock hats on the GC setup. When you go to tighten the main nut on top of the shock/strut with the new hats in place, the whole main rod would turn preventing you from torquing the bolt properly. I talked to Jay about this and he suggested just zapping it with the air tools and getting it as tight as I could. I was afraid of overtorquing, but got the impression this wouldn't be a problem. Next was installing the GC setup into the car. This is where I noticed that the hole in the sway bar end link tab on the coil over tube was too small for my end-links. I went ahead and drilled it out to the proper size. I later spoke with Jay about this and he said that he normally has these drilled to fit their sway bar end-links not the stock ones and he apologized for forgetting to drill them out for me. No problem. The real problem was that my front tires rubbed so bad that I couldn't rotate the tire by hand very easily with the car jacked up. I do run 245/40-17s on the front of my M3 on the street, so I wasn't too surprised. Of course, Jay @ GC runs the exact same setup on his car (wheels and all) as I do and he says he has no problems. The only thing we could figure out is that we got our wheels from different places and they may have different offsets (mine were M-Contours (17x8.5) from a dealer, his were M-Contours (17x8.5) from Bekkers). Anyway, Jay promised to build me a new set of Coil-over housings with more space between the tube itself and the bolt hole for the top bolt (to the steering arm) and get them shipped to me for Saturday delivery. Jay came through and I had a new set of housings at my place by Saturday afternoon and I was able to finish the front install. The next problem was on the back. Koni apparently included the hardware (bolts and washers) for the single adjustable setup which is smaller than the double adjustable setup. Jay said he called Koni and they would send me the correct hardware for the same Saturday delivery. Koni did NOT come through. So, after I bolted the fronts in and got that all taken care of, I went to the local NAPA and got the correct size nuts and washers and went ahead and finished the rear install. The first drive: DAMN THIS CAR IS FREAKING LOW!!! I even adjusted the ride height to the top of the range. The car is still 2.5" lower than my buddies car which has the H&R Bilstein setup (which is supposed to lower the car 1-1.5 inches). YEIKES. I am not sure I am going to like this. Plus, there will be problems when I get the car corner balanced. I won't be able to balance the car without lowering it even more! More on this later... Driving the car around the streets produce a massive smile on my face! The car felt very good to me as far as spring rates. The car felt a little busier over small bumps. I attributed this to the fact that the springs were not progressive rate springs like came from the factory. This, in my mind, was an acceptable sacrifice for the more consistent feel when setting a turn at the track. I hadn't been to the track yet, but it made sense. As far as overall ride quality, it was a little firmer, but not too bad at all (worlds better than my buddies car with H&R/Bilsten setup). First drive problem: The front springs creaked like crazy when going slow. I called Jay and he asked me if I had remembered to put the factory washer in there. I told him I was sure I did, but I would check it out. Re-install of front: I took the front coil-overs out and got them on the work bench and compared them to the pencil like diagram that was sent by Ground Control. The problem turned out to be that the washer that was advertised as a flat washer in the diagram wasn't actually flat. It looked flat under my primary (quick) inspection, but it turned out to be a little thicker in the middle on one side (think of a volcano chopped off at the ground). I flipped this washer over so the ramped side faced up (this was the mating surface for the bearing in the strut hat) and all creaking problems were gone. Wohooo. I am even happier with the setup now. If it just wasn't so damn low. Random note: The hardware from Koni showed up the next Monday morning. Gee thanks. A little too late. Fast forward a week or two to this past Friday: Hmm, I am planning on heading out to the track tomorrow and I got out of a training class a little early. I have been worried a little about how my toe settings worked out since the car was SO LOW! I figured that I gained quite a bit of negative camber in front so my toe must be off a bit. Well, my normal shop (911 Enterprises) was booked for the day so I drove by Dallas Frame and Alignment. Damn! They were closed while having their parking lot re-paved. So, I drive over to Stuttgart Motors to see what's going on over there. They look at my car and say, "DAMN that car is LOW. I don't know if we can get it up on our alignment rack!" Well, they couldn't without some 2x4s as some pre-rams to get it up there. Now the car is on the rack and they hook up the Hunter alignment jigs to the wheels. Hmmmmm, -3.6 degrees negative camber in front! Yeikes!!! Goodbye tires. -2.6 (or 2.8, I can't exactly remember) in the back. "We can't get a toe reading because your car is too damn low." What? Are you kidding? Nope, the front end was so low that the arms with the laser beams in them (to measure toe) couldn't see each other. Aww crap! That's the one I was worried about in the first place. We spend a few minutes standing there staring at the blinking red toe lights on the Hunter machine. I say, "lets take the front bumper off". They spend a few minutes staring at me, then say, "OK, go for it." So, there I am still wearing my work clothes disassembling the front of my car so I can get an alignment. The whole time I am thinking, "This car is too damn low." Anyway, after removing the front bumper, the machine still couldn't read toe. Now the guys are really confused. The little laser beams can see eachother fine, but still no toe. They end up giving up on it and sending me on my merry way ($65 in the hole and still no idea how bad my toe is off). After spending a few hours stressing about my alignment and talking to a few buddies, I decide not to worry about it. The worst that will happen is I will blow through a set of race tires in about 30 minutes. We will see what happens tomorrow. Saturday: Me and a buddy headed out the Motorsport Ranch for a few hot laps. Wohooooooooo! I can't wait to get to the track. Next thing you know, my buddy is yelling at me over the talkabout that we are busted! Next thing you know, I am sitting on the side of the road saying "yes sir, I will." After signing the ticket the cop turns to me and says "DAMN that car is low." Just kidding. On to the track... I LOVE this suspension. If it just wasn't so low. My car rubbed the inside of the fender well at the top under hard cornering. It also rubbed the inside of the front fender a little. The car felt wonderful around the track! It just felt so much more predictable and communicative. I could really tell what was going on at each corner. This made threshold braking and setting a corner much easier and smoother. The car behaved very well. It was quite balanced with a mild tendency toward throttle on oversteer. I was having a blast (I even lapped my buddy :) Hi John). Uh oh! What's that vibration? Oh man! Sounds like a wheel bearing! Damn! Day's over. Off I go toward home after only 30 minutes on track! I did get one set of tire temps during the outing. Guess what. Yep, high temps on the inside of the front tires. Actually it was pretty even on the right side, but it was pretty far off on the left (mostly left turns at this track). Oh yea, I had a little too much air in the back tires. On the way home, I spend quite a bit of time thinking about what to do about the suspension. I decide I need longer springs. Today: I plan on talking to Jay (already left a message) about taller springs. I really do like the spring rates I went with, I just need the car to be a little higher and I really want to be able to corner balance the car with out making it so low it is un-drivable. I was thinking that I should get two inch taller springs. This way I could raise the car about an inch and move the height adjustment closer to the middle of the range. Then, I will get the car corner balanced. That being said, I don't know if they make 9" springs! That would be the length of my front springs if I added two inches to them! The guy who answered the phone at GC suggested that I check the numbers on the springs to verify that they are really 7" springs. He figured that they are probably 6" springs that were put in the wrong box. We will see. I will keep you informed. Greg 98 M3/4 Dallas, TX
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#8. AA high perf. Clutch kit - from F. Graziano
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:32:22 -0500 From: "F. Graziano" <fgraziano@monmouth.com> Subject: AA high perf. Clutch kit i have a supercharged M3, is this clutch a good buy? any know issues or problems? thanks Frank =20
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#9. Re: [E36M3] AA high perf. Clutch kit - from Jim Powell
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:42:24 -0800 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] AA high perf. Clutch kit Its what I just installed. I have not yet been able to wring it out but it went in perfectly. Jim "F. Graziano" wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:32:22 -0500 > From: "F. Graziano" <fgraziano@monmouth.com> > Subject: AA high perf. Clutch kit > > i have a supercharged M3, is this clutch a good buy? any know issues or > problems? thanks > Frank > =20 > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message. > *************************************************************
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#10. Euro air duct/snorkel - from AVUSM3@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:26:08 EST From: AVUSM3@aol.com Subject: Euro air duct/snorkel Does anyone have a Euro air duct/snorkel that they are looking to unload? Thanks, John '95 Avus M3....looking for more CFMs