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#1. Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters - from Matt Henson
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:56:46 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters Clearly the steel. But.. I'm valves break by not being closed quickly enough. The lifters are only responsible for opening the valves. So if they squish then it will open late with less lift but it should still close at the same time. Closing the valve is a function of spring and mass. So I re-submit the question.. -Matt --- Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> wrote: > Which is more reactive? A solid piece of steel or a > pillow? > > Jim > > Matt Henson wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:26:08 -0800 (PST) > > From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > > > So why are the solid lifters the trick to 8000RPM? > > Does this mean that valve float isn't what kills > you > > between 7400-8000? Or are the solids lighter, > > decreasing the mass that the springs must move, > > therefore increasing the RPM at which float will > > occur? Or ? > > -Matt > > > > --- Mark Radelow <radelow@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:15:52 -0000 > > > From: "Mark Radelow" <radelow@hotmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > > > > > The purpose of the valve springs is to prevent > valve > > > float. If the valves > > > float (which can occur on any car and high > enough > > > rpm) the valves will stay > > > open long enough to come into contact with the > > > piston. That's what happens > > > when you overrev a M3 engine (or a 2.0l 16v > > > engine....10,000rpm > > > baby...BOOM!) > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> > > > To: Mark Radelow <radelow@hotmail.com>, > > > e36m3@bmw-m.net > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > > Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:11:48 -0800 (PST) > > > > > > Thanks for the info. I was always under the > > > impression that the cam lobe > > > was > > > in constant contact with the top of the valve > and > > > that the valve springs > > > push > > > the valve against the cam to follow it after the > > > "high" part of the lobe > > > spins > > > past. I also thought that when valve float > occurs, > > > the valve springs > > > resonate > > > such that they are not able to push the valve > > > against the cam lobe... Hmmmm > > > > > > Chester > > > > > > --- Mark Radelow <radelow@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Lifters are technically cam followers. The > job > > > of the "follower" is to > > > sit > > > > between the camshaft lob and the lifter > itself. > > > It turns the shape of > > > the > > > > lob into the up and down movement of the > valve. > > > On a solid follower car > > > the > > > > actual piece between the cam and valve is not > > > self-adjusting. > > > Periodically > > > > you have to adjust the valvetrain with shims > to > > > maintain the proper gap > > > > between the camshaft lob and follower. On a > > > hydraulic follower, oil > > > > pressure is used to keep the follower pressed > > > against the cam at all > > > times. > > > > Thus no adjustment is needed. I dunno if I > > > explained that too well... > > > But > > > > that is basically the difference. > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > > http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > List Commands > > > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > > > from the mailing list. > > > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > > > list's GET directory. > > > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > > > requested file(s). > > > > > > To issue a command/request to the server: > > > Send a message with the command you wish > executed as > > > the > > > subject of the message. > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > ************************************************************* > > List Commands > > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > from the mailing list. > > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > list's GET directory. > > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > requested file(s). > > > > To issue a command/request to the server: > > Send a message with the command you wish executed > as the > > subject of the message. > > > ************************************************************* > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters - from NickG
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:12:22 -0500 From: "NickG" <nikog@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters It's the spring's inability to control the valve movement that causes valve float, not the lifter. A properly functioning lifter, whether hydraulic or solid, doesn't affect the valve's closing. Opening yes, but closing no. The valve spring has to pull the valve closed, but it doesn't have to compress the lifter. Thus, the hydraulic lifters don't play a role in valve float. Now, if the solid lifters are lighter than the hydraulic pieces, that's another story. Nick > Which is more reactive? A solid piece of steel or a pillow? > > Jim > > Matt Henson wrote: > > > > So why are the solid lifters the trick to 8000RPM? > > Does this mean that valve float isn't what kills you > > between 7400-8000? Or are the solids lighter, > > decreasing the mass that the springs must move, > > therefore increasing the RPM at which float will > > occur? Or ? > > -Matt
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters - from Jim Powell
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:13:09 -0800 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters I'll see if I can dig up something pictorial to send you. There are 3 things that differentiate solids from hydraulic in this regard. Jim Matt Henson wrote: > Clearly the steel. But.. I'm valves break by not > being closed quickly enough. The lifters are only > responsible for opening the valves. So if they squish > then it will open late with less lift but it should > still close at the same time. Closing the valve is a > function of spring and mass. So I re-submit the > question.. > -Matt > > --- Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> wrote: > > Which is more reactive? A solid piece of steel or a > > pillow? > > > > Jim > > > > Matt Henson wrote: > > > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:26:08 -0800 (PST) > > > From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > > > > > So why are the solid lifters the trick to 8000RPM? > > > Does this mean that valve float isn't what kills > > you > > > between 7400-8000? Or are the solids lighter, > > > decreasing the mass that the springs must move, > > > therefore increasing the RPM at which float will > > > occur? Or ? > > > -Matt > > > > > > --- Mark Radelow <radelow@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:15:52 -0000 > > > > From: "Mark Radelow" <radelow@hotmail.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > > > > > > > The purpose of the valve springs is to prevent > > valve > > > > float. If the valves > > > > float (which can occur on any car and high > > enough > > > > rpm) the valves will stay > > > > open long enough to come into contact with the > > > > piston. That's what happens > > > > when you overrev a M3 engine (or a 2.0l 16v > > > > engine....10,000rpm > > > > baby...BOOM!) > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> > > > > To: Mark Radelow <radelow@hotmail.com>, > > > > e36m3@bmw-m.net > > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > > > Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:11:48 -0800 (PST) > > > > > > > > Thanks for the info. I was always under the > > > > impression that the cam lobe > > > > was > > > > in constant contact with the top of the valve > > and > > > > that the valve springs > > > > push > > > > the valve against the cam to follow it after the > > > > "high" part of the lobe > > > > spins > > > > past. I also thought that when valve float > > occurs, > > > > the valve springs > > > > resonate > > > > such that they are not able to push the valve > > > > against the cam lobe... Hmmmm > > > > > > > > Chester > > > > > > > > --- Mark Radelow <radelow@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Lifters are technically cam followers. The > > job > > > > of the "follower" is to > > > > sit > > > > > between the camshaft lob and the lifter > > itself. > > > > It turns the shape of > > > > the > > > > > lob into the up and down movement of the > > valve. > > > > On a solid follower car > > > > the > > > > > actual piece between the cam and valve is not > > > > self-adjusting. > > > > Periodically > > > > > you have to adjust the valvetrain with shims > > to > > > > maintain the proper gap > > > > > between the camshaft lob and follower. On a > > > > hydraulic follower, oil > > > > > pressure is used to keep the follower pressed > > > > against the cam at all > > > > times. > > > > > Thus no adjustment is needed. I dunno if I > > > > explained that too well... > > > > But > > > > > that is basically the difference. > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > > > http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > > List Commands > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > > > > from the mailing list. > > > > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > > > > list's GET directory. > > > > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > > > > requested file(s). > > > > > > > > To issue a command/request to the server: > > > > Send a message with the command you wish > > executed as > > > > the > > > > subject of the message. > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > List Commands > > > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > > from the mailing list. > > > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > > list's GET directory. > > > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > > requested file(s). > > > > > > To issue a command/request to the server: > > > Send a message with the command you wish executed > > as the > > > subject of the message. > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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#4. Re: Solid Valve Lifters - from Eric.C.Dotson@travelers.com
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:57:30 -0500 From: Eric.C.Dotson@travelers.com Subject: Re: Solid Valve Lifters Matt Wrote: >>So why are the solid lifters the trick to 8000RPM? Does this mean that valve float isn't what kills you between 7400-8000? Or are the solids lighter, decreasing the mass that the springs must move, therefore increasing the RPM at which float will occur? Or ? -Matt<< I don't know if a lighter lifter is necessarily the key to 8k rpm, but I think a solid lifter should be lighter than a hydrolic one. It doesn't have plungers and springs inside, and it isn't full of oil. Back in the day when I had my 327 inch small block Chevy with a solid cam (yee ha!), you could definitely feel a difference in weight between the two - solid lifters were lighter. Not that I appreciated such things at the time. All I knew was that it went rumpity rump at idle and would turn 7200 no problem. Ah, life was simple back then... Eric 95 M3 00 Passat Wagon
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters - from Jason Bishop
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:11:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Bishop <jason@secondhat.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, NickG wrote: > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:12:22 -0500 > From: "NickG" <nikog@mediaone.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > It's the spring's inability to control the valve movement that causes valve > float, not the lifter. A properly functioning lifter, whether hydraulic or > solid, doesn't affect the valve's closing. Opening yes, but closing no. The > valve spring has to pull the valve closed, but it doesn't have to compress > the lifter. Thus, the hydraulic lifters don't play a role in valve float. > you know... hydraulic lifters suck (not good at high rpm). solids suck too (noisy like my 2002). anybody know the status of the selenoid operated valves BMW is working on? (showed up in prev roundel). now thats the shit. computer controlled valves should really get JimC going. no cams, no timing belts/chains. nice! Jason
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters - from Jim Powell
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:24:36 -0800 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters Uh-huh. That way shark code will be released within years of the discontinuation of the model. :) Jim I'll keep my car mechanical, thank you. Jason Bishop wrote: > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:11:05 -0800 (PST) > From: Jason Bishop <jason@secondhat.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, NickG wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:12:22 -0500 > > From: "NickG" <nikog@mediaone.net> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > > > > It's the spring's inability to control the valve movement that causes valve > > float, not the lifter. A properly functioning lifter, whether hydraulic or > > solid, doesn't affect the valve's closing. Opening yes, but closing no. The > > valve spring has to pull the valve closed, but it doesn't have to compress > > the lifter. Thus, the hydraulic lifters don't play a role in valve float. > > > > you know... hydraulic lifters suck (not good at high rpm). solids suck > too (noisy like my 2002). anybody know the status of the selenoid > operated valves BMW is working on? (showed up in prev roundel). > > now thats the shit. computer controlled valves should really get JimC > going. no cams, no timing belts/chains. nice! > > Jason > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message. > *************************************************************
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#7. [E36M3] FS: LTW style rims w/tires - from twisty M3
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:31:35 -0800 From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> Subject: [E36M3] FS: LTW style rims w/tires Posting for a friend... He's selling his 17" E36 M3 5 spoke LTW style rims. They have brand new Kumho ECSTA Supra 712 235/40/17 street tires (less then 200 miles on them). Asking $1200 for them, buyer pays shipping (and he'll ship them in tire boxes with padding). If anyone's interested, please contact Terry at: TBest90662@aol.com Thanks, Jonathan L. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters - from Skip Bogard
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:50:45 -0500 From: Skip Bogard <Skip.Bogard@ALUMni.DUKE.edu> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Solid Valve Lifters > I don't know if a lighter lifter is necessarily the key to 8k rpm, > but I think a solid lifter should be lighter than a hydraulic one. Think about this, which you probably know more intimately: a lot of the design points for valve trains parallel that of speaker driver design. Consider/compare how a tweeter is made vs. a valve: 1. You're a tweeter...you start from a reference position, accelerate quickly, and then come to a complete stop at a peak value. A valve does the same thing... 2. You reverse direction, accelerate again, go through the reference point and then decelerate, stopping at a negative (-) peak value. Like valves again. 3. You want to be highly stiff and strong (the cone/dome surface, I'm not talking about the suspension surround) so you don't flex and make "noise" on you own (tweeter distortion) . In theory, infinitely stiff is desired. But that stiffness can conflict with being light in weight. 4. Tweeters are small & light and can go to high frequencies (8000 Hz) Woofers have trouble doing this and "redline" e.g. distort & muddy higher frequencies if allowed to reproduce them. Their high mass keeps them from moving quick enough to keep up with the tweeter. Lighter is better, up to a point where strength etc. is compromised, that is tweeters flex (called "cone breakup" or valves flex..aka wallet breakup) - Skip
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#9. E-Brake Handle Removal/Install - from F. Graziano
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:24:14 -0500 From: "F. Graziano" <fgraziano@monmouth.com> Subject: E-Brake Handle Removal/Install do you just pull it off like the shift knob or are there screws? = Private reply is OK. Thanks, Frank =20
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#10. '95 M3- HR/Eibach?? - from Chuck Roberts
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:17:11 -0800 From: "Chuck Roberts" <chuck.roberts3@gte.net> Subject: '95 M3- HR/Eibach?? Hey, I have a question (and could really use the help!!); =20 Why do the tops of the rear springs in the Eibach Pro-kit differ so = much from the HR Sports or OEM springs?? =20 The Pro-kit number is 2041.140 (for 3/93 to 12/95 M3's per Eibach application guide). Is this the correct kit?? Front & rear spring #'s are 2017.101. I'm a little concerned about weight distribution at the upper spring pad/mount(?). Also, they're about 1" shorter than the = HR's but are supposed to reduce ride height less(?). =20 TIA! =20 Chuck Everett WA=20