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#1. Re: [E36M3] Understeer - from John Robison
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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:17:09 -0700 From: John Robison <johnr@yahoo-inc.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Understeer Your problem is the RD swaybars. They suck. I have a similar setup (but less camber), and even w/ full soft in front and full stiff in the rear the car still understeers. (I run 245 all around, 10mm spacers in front, braces, race springs, etc.) I plan to try to Eibach sways soon. A friend has then on his (dedicated track) car, and it handles much more neutral. I'm not sure of the specs for the SwayBarbarian, but that also might be another option. Oh, and to quiet the masses that claim it is the driver, I had the best driver I know drive my car and the other track car. He confirmed my suspicion that it understeers horribly. He also confirmed the track car was great. Later, JohnR (98 M3/4 w/ tons-o-stuff) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ahmad Lutfeali [mailto:m3_racer99@hotmail.com] > > Sent: den 23 april 2001 16:56 > > To: E36M3 > > Subject: [E36M3] Dreaded Understeer > > > > > > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:34:10 -0000 > > From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> > > Subject: Dreaded Understeer > > > > How do I remove this NASTY understeer from my 98? I am running > > 1) Camber -2.2 > > 2) 17*8 with 245 Hoosiers all around > > 3) X-Brace > > 4) RD Swaybars with front full soft and rear full stiff > >
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#2. RE: [E36M3] stupid heat shield - from =?iso-8859-1?Q?Magnus_Thom=E9?=
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:49:59 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Magnus_Thom=E9?= <magnus.thome@envox.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] stupid heat shield I changed sensors on my euro M3/4 -96 and i remember that the connectors at the other end of the wires where clearly marked 1 and 2. Might help? /Magnus Thomé > -----Original Message----- > From: Kit Wetzler [mailto:kitwetzler@mindspring.com] .... Also, I seem to have lost the heater circuit on my one of my rear O2 sensors... darn. is bank 1 the one closest to the front of the car? which side of the car is the bank 1 sensor on? (passenger or driver's side, assuming a US spec left hand drive car) thanks all. -kit 97 m3/4 who had a really fun track weekend...
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#3. new member intro - from Kevin M. Gregg
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:26:24 -0400 From: "Kevin M. Gregg" <kevingregg@home.com> Subject: new member intro Hello- I bought a 97 Estoril Blue M3 a week ago (my first BMW). Some pics of it are on the web at http://members.home.net/kevingregg/m3/ The car has Bridgestone Potenza RE730 tires on it. These tires were bought new in Oct, 2000 when the car had 23,300 miles on it. The car now has 32,600 miles. What do you know about these tires? Specifically, how many miles of "normal" driving might I get from them? ("Normal" means 2/3rds highway driving, 1/3rd city driving, and an autocross or two per year.) The car will not be driven in the snow/ice (I live in MD) and may not come out in the rain. I have the factory am/fm/cassette stereo for sale if anyone is interested in it. Let me know. What is a good radar detector (other than the Valentine 1)? Do any of you live in the metro Wash DC area? Where is the best place in this area to get my car serviced? Thanks, Kevin kevingregg@home.com http://members.home.net/kevingregg 1997 BMW M3 Estoril Blue coupe http://members.home.net/kevingregg/m3/ Columbia, MD
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Understeer - from Blair Hartsfield
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:31:42 -0500 From: Blair Hartsfield <res04ans@gte.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Understeer > Your problem is the RD swaybars. They suck. > I have a similar setup (but less camber), and > even w/ full soft in front and full stiff in the > rear the car still understeers. > (I run 245 all around, 10mm spacers in front, > braces, race springs, etc.) RD Sport sways can (an will) work to help reduce or eliminate the E36 understeer---but there is more research required (BTDT), Choose the tire you want the grip for, and work from there. A pyrometer is a must. An E36 utilizing the correct spring rates, camber plates, shocks, spherical bearings (in the right places) and so forth will work with the RD Sport Sway bars with most any tire to completely eliminate the understeer (and produce corner entry, apex and/or exit oversteer depending on what you want for that particular turn). Consider camber, caster, toe, ride height, and corner balancing the car. Remember that the pyrometer numbers will change slightly with each driver, gas level, driving style, weather, and track condition. A few of the Speedvision World Challenge E36 BMWs are working quite well with the RD Sport sway bars using the spec Toyo tires. Not to mention many E36 BMW CCA Club Racers using Hoosiers, among the other DOT compounds. A simpler approach may be to copy the suspension setup that others are running with (and hopefully winning), and then chose the same rim/tire setup as well. See below. But, the other tools still have to be used to 'fine tune' the package. If you are doing this for a street car, you still have to consider all the above, in relation to what you are willing to sacrifice in ride comfort, to reduce the understeer. Blair ~2650 lb 95 M3--RD Sport Sways with Ground Control suspension (Camber plates front, spherical bearings all around, 6" Eibach Race Springs, Advanced Design double adjustable shocks, adj, coil over setup front, adj, coil near in back), Solid adj lower rear struts, BMW Motorsport X Brace & Shock tower bar, Euro HFM with combination ECIS/JC chip setup, Earl's SS brake lines to 4 pot AP racing calipers front (using Hawk HT9 compound), Brake ducting, Turner Motorsport Fiberglass headlight/intake, Fikse FM10's with 245/40/17 R3S03 Hoosiers, 7mm spacers up front (to clear the AP brake calipers), Supersprint headers, Sparco seat, belts, removable steering wheel, custom 6 point weld in cage and probably other mods I've forgotten. Obviously, not street legal ;-)
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#5. Brake Shimmy - from Steve D'Gerolamo
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:48:16 -0400 From: "Steve D'Gerolamo" <steved3@idt.net> Subject: Brake Shimmy Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 05:58:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Turgeon <turgeon1@yahoo.com> Subject: Brake pulsating or thudding Hi Gruppe: During the last two sessions of last weekends DS at Putnam I started to experience a brake thudding or pulsating under heavy braking. I checked the brakes on the way home and it was still there. My brake system: SS brake lines, Bimmerworld ducting kit, Euro rotors, Pagid street pads, Ate fluid Are the rotors warped? Will a change in pads make a difference? Any ideas, I have another school in two weeks ============================================== Mike....I got your private e-mail but thought I'd reply to the list in case others are having similar problems. First of all, if you've used the EBC green pads, you may have built up a residue on the rotor surface. Even the Euro rotors can be cleaned up to remove this residue although its best to just take a few thousandths off each side on the lathe (see pics at http://www.ultimategarage.com/bbrunout.html ). If the pulsing continues, you should be able to measure it with a dial indicator. First measure the rotor on the hub cold.....anything greater than .004" indicates a problem, either with the rotor, the hub, or both. Take the car for a spirited drive with a couple of hard stops.....put some load and temperature into the bearings. Now remeasure the runout to see if its increased. If runout has increased by more than ..002", replace the wheel bearings. {Mike....your .002" runout cold may grow to .006" under load if the bearing is bad....this is what I suspect as you only have the problem under heavy load/braking} If you're at the track and have a major problem with shimmy, you can try re-indexing the rotor to the hub. You won't be able to use the rotor retainer screw with the stock rotors so using a wheel hanger tool or stud (see pics at http://www.ultimategarage.com/whlhgr.html ) will make reinstallation a bit easier if you haven't already converted to studs. This requires removing the rotor, rotating it 144 degrees (2 holes), and repositioning it to the hub hoping that a low spot on the hub will now be matched with a high spot on the rotor, lowering the overall runout. On many of our brake kits, we have 2 sets of locator screw holes in the rotor hats to help with indexing. If you track your car a lot, it makes sense to just replace the front wheel bearings every year or two. If you have a fixed piston big brake kit, a bad bearing will kill a fresh rotor in 500-1500 miles. I'm doing a brake session at my place this weekend for some of the Mov'it brake kit folks to carefully check rotor runout, rotor thickness and check front wheel bearing integrity (with replacement if needed...takes about 15 minutes per side with the right tools) as we head into the current track season. If you're interested in attending, please contact me directly. SD ================================== Steve D'Gerolamo - The Ultimate Garage - Tel 201-262-0412
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#6. Alignment - Beissbarth ML4000 - from Steve D'Gerolamo
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:17:58 -0400 From: "Steve D'Gerolamo" <steved3@idt.net> Subject: Alignment - Beissbarth ML4000 I just purchased a Beissbarth alignment system (ML4000) for doing shop customer demo's and customer alignments. It is the same machine BMW purchased for their Spartanburg facility (see http://www.beissbarthusa.com/Newsflash/newsflash1.htm ) last year, complete with the factory software for BMW, Porsche and Ferrari as well as the standard software that comes with the machine. The system comes with zero runout no-mar clamps that won't scratch your expensive wheels and don't require time consuming runout compensation. The turntables and rear slip plates will be eventually upgraded to scale units tied into the ML4000's software to do corner balancing while the car is on the rack. I'm still a believer in Hunter's wheel machines (GSP9700 & TC3500) but this alignment system has Hunter and the others beat in terms of set up time, accuracy and repeatability. Some of my customers (including Jaguar North America) have pulled out their Hunter alignment machine and replaced it with this unit. When I was in SF back in March, Mike Dennison at Bavarian Professionals was the person who told me to look into Beissbarth instead of Hunter (thanks Mike). If you need to get your car aligned, I'd recommend a shop with this equipment. SD ================================== Steve D'Gerolamo - The Ultimate Garage - Tel 201-262-0412
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#7. Re: Stock Brake Rotors '95 = '96+ ? - from Rob Norwalk
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:10:01 -0500 From: "Rob Norwalk" <Robert_J_Norwalk@raytheon.com> Subject: Re: Stock Brake Rotors '95 = '96+ ? Kevin, Most likely you just have "reconstituted" brake pad crud on your rotors that vaporized during the track sessions. This happens with street pads. You can: 1. drive about 1000 street miles - they should get better 2. take the rotors to a brake shop and have them "dressed" - lightly resurfaced to remove the garbage. My shop charges about $15 for this. 3. buy new ones Good Luck, Rob Norwalk 93 325 You wrote: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:36:33 -0500 From: kmcleaster@iquest.net Subject: Stock Brake Rotors '95 = '96+ ? Are the stock brake rotors for '96+ M3 interchangeable with a '95 M3? I did my first track event at Putnam Park this past weekend and the brakes are now making a bit of a grinding noise, but only under moderate or heavy pedal pressure. The stock pads look fine and the brakes work fine. I'm thinking that I may have a bit of rotor warpage. Looking forward to lots of advise and comments. Regards, Kevin D. McLeaster WB9HMI '95 M3 Arctic Silver
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#8. E36M3 stuff for sale - from John Van Houten
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:20:44 -0500 From: "John Van Houten" <jvanhouten@ix.netcom.com> Subject: E36M3 stuff for sale As many of you may know, Ice9 is being built into a DMod car. As a result, I have a ton of stuff for sale off of it. Highlights include: TC Kline rollbar, Group N cams, complete interior, cd changer, etc. The complete list can be found at http://www.jvanhouten.com/bmw/forsale/ If you don't see anything you need on the list, send me an email--I have just about everything. All prices are negotiable--I need the space in my small city garage... Thanks John
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Understeer - from Ahmad Lutfeali
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:01:05 -0000 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Understeer I may agree with you on the swaybars. The front ones are too big. Infact they are the largest compared to Dinan and Eibachs. I had heard a lot about the RD bars before I went out and got them, some of the track people also highly recommended it. Now when I talked with them again about the setup, most of them are running almost -3.5 camber in the front. I want to be able to figure out why sooooo much understeer before installing my shocks and springs. One thing my friend noticed (was behind me and we played together on the track) that after the swaybar install, I was lifting the tire which was not on load (opposite side) by almost 4-6inches. Now when I think of it, its because maybe the bar is too stiff?? why does all the top tuner recommend it when they can and do sell Eibach and other bars?? Ahmad >From: John Robison <johnr@yahoo-inc.com> >To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> >CC: m3_racer99@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: [E36M3] Understeer >Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:17:09 -0700 > >Your problem is the RD swaybars. They suck. >I have a similar setup (but less camber), and >even w/ full soft in front and full stiff in the >rear the car still understeers. >(I run 245 all around, 10mm spacers in front, >braces, race springs, etc.) > >I plan to try to Eibach sways soon. A friend has >then on his (dedicated track) car, and it handles much >more neutral. I'm not sure of the specs for the >SwayBarbarian, but that also might be another option. > >Oh, and to quiet the masses that claim it is the driver, >I had the best driver I know drive my car and the other track >car. He confirmed my suspicion that it understeers horribly. >He also confirmed the track car was great. > >Later, > >JohnR (98 M3/4 w/ tons-o-stuff) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ahmad Lutfeali [mailto:m3_racer99@hotmail.com] > > > Sent: den 23 april 2001 16:56 > > > To: E36M3 > > > Subject: [E36M3] Dreaded Understeer > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:34:10 -0000 > > > From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> > > > Subject: Dreaded Understeer > > > > > > How do I remove this NASTY understeer from my 98? I am running > > > 1) Camber -2.2 > > > 2) 17*8 with 245 Hoosiers all around > > > 3) X-Brace > > > 4) RD Swaybars with front full soft and rear full stiff > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Dreaded Understeer - from Ahmad Lutfeali
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:13:33 -0000 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Dreaded Understeer M3s run AS (A Stock) whereas RX7s run in SS (Super Stock). SS times are faster than AS times and M3s and RX7s dont compete with each other unless they are modded out (or LTW) in the ASP (A Street Prepared). Ahmad PS: M3s dont handle bad at all, they are awesome, mine is having the understeer problem EVER since I install those RD bars. Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:44:40 -0500 From: "John Van Houten" <jvanhouten@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Dreaded Understeer >RX7s are one of the best handling cars out there. (Check out SCCA SOLO 2s) May want to tell Bob and Patty Tunnell that. They've been cleaning up in SoloII/ProSolo with their 95 M3 (10 National titles) so far, and a few victories on the National Tour this year. M3's don't handle too bad., me thinks... John _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com