-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. Tuner vs DIY Suspension Tuning (Re: [E36M3] Bilstein sport / H&R - from Bora Akyol
Top
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:13:18 -0700 From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> Subject: Tuner vs DIY Suspension Tuning (Re: [E36M3] Bilstein sport / H&R 29910 setup) Every time I read one of these, I am really happy that I bought my Dinan Stage III setup. Excellent on the autoX and excellent on the street. I am not trying to be rude here, all I am saying that it is a lot easier to arrive at an undesirable setup with the mix and match approach. I have had 0 problems with my car every since I got the new suspension installed, no rubbing, no squeaks, no rattles and NO problems. I think any setup (although it may be more expensive) from a tuner such as AC Schnitzer, Dinan, Alpina, RD that is sold as a complete package is bound to be problem-free. In the meantime, I believe if you trim the bump stops (unless you have done that already) on the Bilsteins you may get some comfort back. Another option is to switch to Koni's and H&R OE Sports but if you are doing that you may want to give your favorite tuner a call. Bora Who is not on the Dinan payroll, just a satisfied customer. > From: John Bergstrom <john0990@yahoo.com> > Reply-To: John Bergstrom <john0990@yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 22:32:26 -0500 > To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Subject: [E36M3] Bilstein sport / H&R 29910 setup > > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 20:28:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: John Bergstrom <john0990@yahoo.com> > Subject: Bilstein sport / H&R 29910 setup > > OK, > > I've lived with the Bilstein sport shock / H&R 29910 setup on my '95 M3 for > almost a year now. I've driven track, autox, and this is my daily driver. I > also have an x-brace and Eibach sway bars. > > On track, this setup is beautiful. The car is balanced to oversteer a little > which gives me the flexiblity to get the car turned a little more by easing > the > tail out with throttle and steering input. The car remains very flat with > very > little body roll. Most importantly, the car is HIGHLY recoverable, and you > can > pull your ass out of many a hairy situation. In autox, the car is great in > low > speed tight corners, and does not exhibit understeer they way a stock M3 > typically would (yes, I drove a stock M3 for about 2 years). > > However, on the street, this setup is NOT good. My dentist has made over > $4500 > off me over the last year putting caps on my broken teeth and replacing loose > fillings. My ass is covered with black and blue bruises with every seam I run > over on the pavement. I mean this damn car is way too damn stiff over any > kind > of bumpy road. Also, over any bumpy surface, this setup is WORSE than stock > in > terms of performance. Braking over a bumpy surface is an especially > lackluster > area. > > I have been told to try switching springs. I have been told to try switching > shocks. I have been told to sell my car and buy a Lexus. But what I am > looking for is the least complicated way to solve the streetability problem > with a minimum performance degradation and want to hear from you guys out > there > who have been down the Bilstein/H&R road, came to the same conclusions as me, > and changed something that made it better. > > I cannot lower the car any more (I have the ltw splitter), nor do I want to > raise it very much (it looks pretty tough as the height is now). I already > have some ideas, but surely there is someone out there who has been down this > path before? > > Thanks all! > > John (bruised and battered) > '95 M3 (a little too stiff) > > >
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed - from Bora Akyol
Top
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:17:17 -0700 From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> Subject: Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed I got my copy of Excellence magazine in the mail. I am looking through the ads and what do I see? Porsche Big Red Front and Rear Upgrade kits for 80s 911s are for $3295 FRONT AND REAR. The monoblock kit is at 4K flat for front and rear. So how come are the big brake kits for front and rear nearly 5.5K for BMW owners. What is so different? The porsche kits also come with bracket mounts. I see a business opportunity for someone like Will Turner or AA or someone else. For 5.5K, I can almost buy an old 911 and get big brakes on it. Bora
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. :[E36M3 Throttle Cable Clips (was:[E36M3] Wrecked my M3) - from kmcleaster@iquest.net
Top
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 00:03:16 -0500 From: kmcleaster@iquest.net Subject: :[E36M3 Throttle Cable Clips (was:[E36M3] Wrecked my M3) These pictures give an idea of what to look for, but my E36 looks alot different. The sleeve on one cable is solid part-way, and snakes up along the dipstick tube. My car is a 6/95 build and doesn't appear to have any clips that look like the ones on the pic. BTW, I think this is the correct URL : http://e30m3performance.com/installs/installs-1/throttle_clips/clips1.htm Is the P/M # 35 40 1 165 393 correct for the E36? Kevin McLeaster '95 M3 At 02:12 PM 4/30/01, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:52:16 -0700 >From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> >Subject: Re: [E36M3] Wrecked my M3 > >See > >http://e30m3performance.com/installs/more_inst/throttle_clips/clips1.htm > > >On Monday, April 30, 2001, at 09:12 AM, Jeremy Warfield wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:01:06 -0400 > > From: "Jeremy Warfield" <cosmos95_swa@yahoo.com> > > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Wrecked my M3 > > > > Does anyone have pictures of these clips, so we know what to look for?
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. Re: Tuner vs DIY Suspension Tuning (Re: [E36M3] Bilstein sport / H&R - from Bill Lackey
Top
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 22:22:53 -0700 From: "Bill Lackey" <btlackey@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Tuner vs DIY Suspension Tuning (Re: [E36M3] Bilstein sport / H&R All is not lost. Bilsteins are known to be a little too long, when the car is lowered significantly. The first and easiest thing to try is to cut the bump stops. Rears are easy. Remove the shock and cut. Fronts are a bit harder. First remove the struts and springs. Take the springs off the struts. On the bottom of the strut there is a nut. Remove it. There is a bolt sticking through with a place cut in it for a screw driver. Heat the bolt up with a propane torch. You can buy these cheap at Home Depot. This step is critical as you need to break the loctite loose. Once heated take your favorite screw driver and completely unscrew the bolt. Remove the shock from the strut housing, it will come right. Don't worry, everything is still sealed. One this is done the bump stop will be self evident. Cut it in half and re-assemble. This will void the warrantee... Hope this helps. Bill Lackey From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> Reply-To: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Subject: Tuner vs DIY Suspension Tuning (Re: [E36M3] Bilstein sport / H&R Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 23:22:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:13:18 -0700 From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> Subject: Tuner vs DIY Suspension Tuning (Re: [E36M3] Bilstein sport / H&R 29910 setup) Every time I read one of these, I am really happy that I bought my Dinan Stage III setup. Excellent on the autoX and excellent on the street. I am not trying to be rude here, all I am saying that it is a lot easier to arrive at an undesirable setup with the mix and match approach. I have had 0 problems with my car every since I got the new suspension installed, no rubbing, no squeaks, no rattles and NO problems. I think any setup (although it may be more expensive) from a tuner such as AC Schnitzer, Dinan, Alpina, RD that is sold as a complete package is bound to be problem-free. In the meantime, I believe if you trim the bump stops (unless you have done that already) on the Bilsteins you may get some comfort back. Another option is to switch to Koni's and H&R OE Sports but if you are doing that you may want to give your favorite tuner a call. Bora Who is not on the Dinan payroll, just a satisfied customer. > From: John Bergstrom <john0990@yahoo.com> > Reply-To: John Bergstrom <john0990@yahoo.com> > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 22:32:26 -0500 > To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Subject: [E36M3] Bilstein sport / H&R 29910 setup > > Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 20:28:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: John Bergstrom <john0990@yahoo.com> > Subject: Bilstein sport / H&R 29910 setup > > OK, > > I've lived with the Bilstein sport shock / H&R 29910 setup on my '95 M3 for > almost a year now. I've driven track, autox, and this is my daily driver. I > also have an x-brace and Eibach sway bars. > > On track, this setup is beautiful. The car is balanced to oversteer a little > which gives me the flexiblity to get the car turned a little more by easing > the > tail out with throttle and steering input. The car remains very flat with > very > little body roll. Most importantly, the car is HIGHLY recoverable, and you > can > pull your ass out of many a hairy situation. In autox, the car is great in > low > speed tight corners, and does not exhibit understeer they way a stock M3 > typically would (yes, I drove a stock M3 for about 2 years). > > However, on the street, this setup is NOT good. My dentist has made over > $4500 > off me over the last year putting caps on my broken teeth and replacing loose > fillings. My ass is covered with black and blue bruises with every seam I run > over on the pavement. I mean this damn car is way too damn stiff over any > kind > of bumpy road. Also, over any bumpy surface, this setup is WORSE than stock > in > terms of performance. Braking over a bumpy surface is an especially > lackluster > area. > > I have been told to try switching springs. I have been told to try switching > shocks. I have been told to sell my car and buy a Lexus. But what I am > looking for is the least complicated way to solve the streetability problem > with a minimum performance degradation and want to hear from you guys out > there > who have been down the Bilstein/H&R road, came to the same conclusions as me, > and changed something that made it better. > > I cannot lower the car any more (I have the ltw splitter), nor do I want to > raise it very much (it looks pretty tough as the height is now). I already > have some ideas, but surely there is someone out there who has been down this > path before? > > Thanks all! > > John (bruised and battered) > '95 M3 (a little too stiff) > > > ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. ************************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. M3 Part 4 Sale - from Altezza280TT@cs.com
Top
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 01:34:41 EDT From: Altezza280TT@cs.com Subject: M3 Part 4 Sale (1) X Brace off an 97 M3. was on my car for 6 month. No speed bump scrap or any damage. Perfect cond. come with all hardware $90 + sh. SOLD (1 ) Set of LTW Side Badge (NEW) never install. $60 ship (1) LTW Carbon Fiber Glovebox Panel with Logo. Perfect cond. $105 ship (1) UUC RK EVO TITANIUM shift knob Exc. cond.! no scratch or dent! $155 ship (!) UUC FAT BOY CLUTCH STOP. 15 ship (1) Set of Euro Lens rear & side are OEM. front are aftermarket for 2 door E36 Perfect cond. $150 +sh (1) OEM Black Leather Arm Rest with Console. Perfect cond. Fit all E36 $180 +sh (1) BMW OEM CD changer off an 97 M3 use for 1 year work great. come with bracket, nuts, cover. $250 + sh Please Email for PIC or question. Thanks
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed - from Ben Liaw
Top
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 07:20:43 -0400 From: "Ben Liaw" <ben@shortshifter.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed i'm sure steve d will jump in, but the movit kit is not JUST porsche big reds with brackets. from what i'm told, there is a considerable amount of reworking that goes into the big reds used on the BMWs. not just out of the box. i recall steve d saying something about 45 minutes of machine time per caliper (or per set, i don't remember). remember, your M3 has trailing/trailing brakes front and rear. the 993 is leading/leading. they don't just plop right on without major changes. then, how about the custom rotor hats? porsche big brake upgrades for porsches are probably using factory rotors that bolt right on. of course, they won't bolt onto a BMW. so, make the hat. not cheap. i'm sure there's a ton more differences, but i'll let someone else chime in, too. ben liaw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bora Akyol" <akyol@akyol.org> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 12:22 AM Subject: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed > Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:17:17 -0700 > From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> > Subject: Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed > > I got my copy of Excellence magazine in the mail. I am looking through the > ads and what do I see? > > Porsche Big Red Front and Rear Upgrade kits for 80s 911s are for $3295 FRONT > AND REAR. > > The monoblock kit is at 4K flat for front and rear. > > So how come are the big brake kits for front and rear nearly 5.5K for BMW > owners. > > What is so different? The porsche kits also come with bracket mounts. > > I see a business opportunity for someone like Will Turner or AA or someone > else. > > For 5.5K, I can almost buy an old 911 and get big brakes on it. > > Bora
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. Re: more koni questions - from Neil Maller
Top
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 08:01:07 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: more koni questions on 5/4/01 10:42 PM, "scott yu" <scott@ditherdog.com> wrote: > Is this the kit that Neil was referring to? > http://www.activeautowerke.com/suspension/e36suspension.asp > (the one at the bottom of the page) > If so, I think it's been on AA's page for at least 3-4 months. Just FYI... Yep, that's it. It seems to have quietly arrived for the M3 sometime late last year. I note that at $1750 AA wants a lot more money for it than Tire Rack. So does anyone have any experience with these? Neil 96 M3
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. Bilstein sport / H&R 29910 setup - from John Bergstrom
Top
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 06:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: John Bergstrom <john0990@yahoo.com> Subject: Bilstein sport / H&R 29910 setup >>>> Every time I read one of these, I am really happy that I bought my Dinan Stage III setup. Excellent on the autoX and excellent on the street.<<<< Bora, I agree. A knowledgable tuner who has already experimented and tweaked a suspension is the best way to go. I have heard nothing but good about Dinan, in fact I would even consider going with their suspension if necessary, but I want to see if I can easily improve what I have now. (I know, I know, maybe it's a pipe dream?) The Bilstein Sport / H&R combo is the recommended setup by Turner Motorsports. The previous owner of the car put it on. And again, this setup is very nice, but just not streetable enough. >>>> In the meantime, I believe if you trim the bump stops (unless you have done that already) on the Bilsteins you may get some comfort back. Another option is to switch to Koni's and H&R OE Sports but if you are doing that you may want to give your favorite tuner a call.<<<< Why would trimming the bump stops make the ride more comfortable? (I believe Turner recommends NOT trimming them). And why do you recommend Koni's and H&R OE Sports? Have you tried this setup and compared it with the Bilstein/H&R 29910? Again, I am in complete agreement with Bora. Going with a tuner is probably the best bet. But I just want to find out if anyone out there had the Bilstein/H&R and came to the same streetability conclusions that I have, and made a change to improve the situation. Maybe it doesn't exist. Maybe I will have a Dinan Stage3 or a Ground Control coilover setup installed next month. But I'm just checking . . . John '95 M3 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 06:24:35 -0700 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed Altering the factory braking system.... I wonder what Steve's product liability insurance bill is every month? Then of course he stocks most everything, answers hours of questions before and after the sale. Hell, I bet *I* spend 4-5 hours a month on the phone answering questions about brakes and turbos just because I have a webpage. People have to eat and finance the search for the next big product. Retail merchandising sucks. Jim Now about those turbo and supercharger prices :) Ben Liaw wrote: > Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 07:20:43 -0400 > From: "Ben Liaw" <ben@shortshifter.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed > > i'm sure steve d will jump in, but the movit kit is not JUST porsche big > reds with brackets. > > from what i'm told, there is a considerable amount of reworking that goes > into the big reds used on the BMWs. not just out of the box. i recall > steve d saying something about 45 minutes of machine time per caliper (or > per set, i don't remember). remember, your M3 has trailing/trailing brakes > front and rear. the 993 is leading/leading. they don't just plop right on > without major changes. > > then, how about the custom rotor hats? porsche big brake upgrades for > porsches are probably using factory rotors that bolt right on. of course, > they won't bolt onto a BMW. so, make the hat. not cheap. > > i'm sure there's a ton more differences, but i'll let someone else chime in, > too. > > ben liaw > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bora Akyol" <akyol@akyol.org> > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 12:22 AM > Subject: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed > > > Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:17:17 -0700 > > From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> > > Subject: Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed > > > > I got my copy of Excellence magazine in the mail. I am looking through the > > ads and what do I see? > > > > Porsche Big Red Front and Rear Upgrade kits for 80s 911s are for $3295 > FRONT > > AND REAR. > > > > The monoblock kit is at 4K flat for front and rear. > > > > So how come are the big brake kits for front and rear nearly 5.5K for BMW > > owners. > > > > What is so different? The porsche kits also come with bracket mounts. > > > > I see a business opportunity for someone like Will Turner or AA or someone > > else. > > > > For 5.5K, I can almost buy an old 911 and get big brakes on it. > > > > Bora > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message. > *************************************************************
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed - from Bora Akyol
Top
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 06:58:56 -0700 From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed Ben I am sure that there is work that goes into these kits, I did not mean to imply that there wasn't. But, older Porsche 911s as well as Porsche 928GTSs also have trailing brakes (and Porsche 928s come with either the same brakes as the 993TT or very similar ones). I am just shocked to see the price difference between these kits for Porsches and BMWs. ($2.5K) At this point, all I can think of is the volume. I am pretty sure that the volume for Porsche applications is probably ten times the volume for BMW m3s and economies of scale come to work. I also understand that the manufacturers must carry a large liability insurance and here also one can see how the volume impact the price. So, in this case, what volume does an average manufacturer need to bring the prices for these kits in line with the Porsche applications? Bora > From: "Ben Liaw" <ben@shortshifter.com> > Reply-To: "Ben Liaw" <ben@shortshifter.com> > Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 06:52:24 -0500 > To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed > > Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 07:20:43 -0400 > From: "Ben Liaw" <ben@shortshifter.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed > > i'm sure steve d will jump in, but the movit kit is not JUST porsche big > reds with brackets. > > from what i'm told, there is a considerable amount of reworking that goes > into the big reds used on the BMWs. not just out of the box. i recall > steve d saying something about 45 minutes of machine time per caliper (or > per set, i don't remember). remember, your M3 has trailing/trailing brakes > front and rear. the 993 is leading/leading. they don't just plop right on > without major changes. > > then, how about the custom rotor hats? porsche big brake upgrades for > porsches are probably using factory rotors that bolt right on. of course, > they won't bolt onto a BMW. so, make the hat. not cheap. > > i'm sure there's a ton more differences, but i'll let someone else chime in, > too. > > ben liaw > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bora Akyol" <akyol@akyol.org> > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 12:22 AM > Subject: [E36M3] Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed > > >> Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:17:17 -0700 >> From: Bora Akyol <akyol@akyol.org> >> Subject: Big Brake Kits and How we are getting screwed >> >> I got my copy of Excellence magazine in the mail. I am looking through the >> ads and what do I see? >> >> Porsche Big Red Front and Rear Upgrade kits for 80s 911s are for $3295 > FRONT >> AND REAR. >> >> The monoblock kit is at 4K flat for front and rear. >> >> So how come are the big brake kits for front and rear nearly 5.5K for BMW >> owners. >> >> What is so different? The porsche kits also come with bracket mounts. >> >> I see a business opportunity for someone like Will Turner or AA or someone >> else. >> >> For 5.5K, I can almost buy an old 911 and get big brakes on it. >> >> Bora > >