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#1. Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Luis Veras
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:44:25 -0400 From: "Luis Veras" <veras@tricom.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... I know what you're saying, Alex, but in this particular case it had a lot to do with the brakes. It was like he was (for example, I don't really remember the distance) about 40 ft behind me when I started to brake, and I measured that I was about (again, this is an example) 40 ft from the car in front of me. So I gave myself 40 ft of room for braking, trusting my brakes, and stopped at about 5 ft from the car in front. The guy in the Integra, instead, started braking after I had nearly stopped and was only about 20 ft behind me. Maybe I didn't express myself too well, but do you understand the scenario I'm talking about? He expected his brakes to do more than what they could actually do, and because of that he stopped at maybe inches behind my car. I was checking him out on the rearview the whole time, and apparently his ABS engaged about 10 ft away from me, the tires (or brake pads) smoked big time, and I saw the guy's scared face going like "oops". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fadeev, Alex" <alex.fadeev@verizon.com> To: "'Luis Veras'" <veras@tricom.net>; "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... > Luis Veras [mailto:veras@tricom.net] wrote: > > > > they push their cars beyond their limit. And this was a good > > example, first he almost crashed my car in the back because his > > brakes didn't compare to mine (I had to brake hard at one point), > [...] > > Those are the same idiots that crash our cars, without it being > > our fault (well, at least not entirely our fault, after all, > > who said the city streets were for racing? hehehe). > > Luis, > How about a reality check: every non-neglected car on the road has big > enough breaks to engage ABS (or lock the tires) at any speed. And it's > highly unlikely that either you or the car behind you have been braking hard > enough to fade the stock brakes on the street. So getting close to being > rear ended has more to do with you braking unexpectedly and the reaction > time of the driver behind you. > The part about braking unexpectedly almost caused me to rear end another M3 > on track last weekend. The driver ahead of me suddenly decided to wave me by > and braked right at the track out of a 4th gear turn. Not a pretty sight to > see another car camping out right where you expect yours to be in a few > seconds. After a few heart attacks I stopped drifting out about 2 feet away > from his driver's door. I bet he though I was reckless or "my brakes didn't > compare to his". Wanna guess what I thought of him? > > alex f >
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#2. RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Chester Wong
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:00:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... > How about a reality check: every non-neglected car on the road has big > enough breaks to engage ABS (or lock the tires) at any speed. And it's > highly unlikely that either you or the car behind you have been braking hard > enough to fade the stock brakes on the street. So getting close to being > rear ended has more to do with you braking unexpectedly and the reaction > time of the driver behind you. Not sure about that. Sure, every car that's not been neglected can lock up the brakes, but not every car can out brake an M3. Think of 60 - 0mph times or distance, right? Not sure what an Integra can do (sure it probably has smaller brakes, but it's also lighter, right?...tires are also narrower too). Heck, I was once rear ended by a station wagon while driving around in my 1990 Oldsmobile Delta 88, and to this day, I have a phobia of getting rear ended whenever travelling down steep grades and stopping. People are too stupid to allow enough braking distance and tailgate when going down bridges, hills, etc. And to add to that, I now drive an M3 which can out brake 95% of the cars on the road??? I know that I can brake so that I don't hit the car in front, but I'm always afraid (and checking my rear view mirror) of the person behind me... Chester ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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#3. RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from andy radin
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:03:14 -0700 From: "andy radin" <fourfa@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... > How about a reality check: every non-neglected car on the road has big > enough breaks to engage ABS (or lock the tires) at any speed. this is far off-topic, so I'll keep it short: this is completely untrue. Go drive a brand-new Pontiac, or almost any GM car. At high speed, it's not gonna lock without a few moments of really extreme fighting with the pedal, and the brakes *will* fade on the street if you try. Now, consider 4000+ lb trucks with drums... Next, consider that the average car on the road is *not* maintained like ours typically are. Four-year-old brake fluid doesn't take much to boil. I don't trust *anyone* behind me to be able to stop without hitting me. andy r. 98 m3/2
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#4. Faux M3 - from Ed Tang
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Tang <etangf1@yahoo.com> Subject: Faux M3 Luis wrote: "... what's the quickest way to know if it's not an M3? (bear in mind that you are on the street, so you don't have time to look at the car in detail)." If you're behind the car, I believe the OBD II 2.8L engines have a flap on the right exhaust tip to reduce the backpressure noise for the rear passengers. Also, mirrors are the things a lot of these people don't get installed. If your ear is tuned like mine, a stock non-M3 just doesn't sound the same. Basically, it's not hard to make an E36 look like an ///M. I once had a guy in a 328 pull up next to me and said that the car was fake and peeled out. Let's just say it didn't take much to convince him. That was one of the complaints us ///M owners gave to BMW NA and they fixed that with the E46. I can't imagine people cutting up their fenders to get the gills and replacing the hood with the power dome. 4 tipped dual exhaust is pretty expensive plumbing as well. You shouldn't have to worry whether there are fake M3's out there. It's inevitable. Last night I saw a V8 emblem on a Honda. It could have one, who cares? Just don't get hung up on it. Cheers, Ed Tang 95 Cosmos M3 (with a Mercedes V12 emblem on the trunk) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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#5. RE: [E36M3] Faux M3 - from Dave Spragg
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:29:57 -0400 From: "Dave Spragg" <dspragg@mediaone.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Faux M3 I agree with Ed... who cares unless you are buying it. This reeks of a "bubba board" topic. ;) Dave Spragg dave@spragg.com Natick, MA 99 M3 Sharked 92 330is Sharked and Supercharged -----Original Message----- From: Ed Tang [mailto:etangf1@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:14 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Faux M3 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Tang <etangf1@yahoo.com> Subject: Faux M3 Luis wrote: "... what's the quickest way to know if it's not an M3? (bear in mind that you are on the street, so you don't have time to look at the car in detail)." If you're behind the car, I believe the OBD II 2.8L engines have a flap on the right exhaust tip to reduce the backpressure noise for the rear passengers. Also, mirrors are the things a lot of these people don't get installed. If your ear is tuned like mine, a stock non-M3 just doesn't sound the same. Basically, it's not hard to make an E36 look like an ///M. I once had a guy in a 328 pull up next to me and said that the car was fake and peeled out. Let's just say it didn't take much to convince him. That was one of the complaints us ///M owners gave to BMW NA and they fixed that with the E46. I can't imagine people cutting up their fenders to get the gills and replacing the hood with the power dome. 4 tipped dual exhaust is pretty expensive plumbing as well. You shouldn't have to worry whether there are fake M3's out there. It's inevitable. Last night I saw a V8 emblem on a Honda. It could have one, who cares? Just don't get hung up on it. Cheers, Ed Tang 95 Cosmos M3 (with a Mercedes V12 emblem on the trunk) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. *************************************************************
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? - from Geof McLaughlin
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Date: 15 May 2001 15:32:25 EDT From: Geof McLaughlin <gfmiiilist@usa.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? I do hope at least that you are talking about hot pressures. Max pressure on Toyo RA1s is 44 PSI. I have had good luck starting with 33 PSI (cold) front and 32 PSI (cold) rear on my 95 E36M3. Geof "Dave Spragg" <dspragg@mediaone.net> wrote: All I can say is they like higher pressures that BFG R1's, BFG R1A's, or Kumho V700's to work on the track. I found my car on 17x8's with 235/45-17 RA1's to be happiest with 48 front and 45 rear at NHIS and similar at Lime Rock except softer by 3 lbs on the right hand side tires (made West Bend easier to go fast but gave up a little on the Left Hander). Note that this may have been due to the fact that the M3 is a major swine compared to the S2000 and the fact that they didn't have 235/40-17's when I ran those tires so they wanted to roll over more. Dave Spragg dave@spragg.com Natick, MA 99 M3 Sharked 92 330is Sharked and Supercharged -----Original Message----- From: Rob [mailto:motor@cadvision.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 12:44 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:38:16 -0600 From: "Rob" <motor@cadvision.com> Subject: Toyo RA1 - what pressure? Anyone have a good baseline pressure for RA1's on an E36? Also, generally speaking, do they like more or less pressure than street tires? My buddy just put a set on his S2000 and we need a place to start. TIA, Rob ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. ************************************************************* ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. ************************************************************* ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:32:18 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <jbassett@geysernetworks.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? > Anyone have a good baseline pressure for RA1's on an E36? On my '98 M3/4, with 235/45/17 RA-1's, I usually run 33psi cold all around on the track. I generally don't need to adjust more than a pound up or down, depending on tire roll-over & how the car is handling. Hope that helps, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Faux M3 - from Jim Powell
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:37:47 -0700 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Faux M3 No, for that you have to examine the brake ducts :) J'A'P 'ducking and running' Dave Spragg wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:29:57 -0400 > From: "Dave Spragg" <dspragg@mediaone.net> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Faux M3 > > I agree with Ed... who cares unless you are buying it. This reeks of a > "bubba board" topic. ;) > > Dave Spragg > dave@spragg.com > Natick, MA > 99 M3 Sharked > 92 330is Sharked and Supercharged > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed Tang [mailto:etangf1@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:14 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [E36M3] Faux M3 > > Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:09:52 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ed Tang <etangf1@yahoo.com> > Subject: Faux M3 > > Luis wrote: > > "... what's the quickest way to know if it's not > an M3? (bear in mind that you are on the street, so > you don't have time to look at the car in detail)." > > If you're behind the car, I believe the OBD II 2.8L > engines have a flap on the right exhaust tip to reduce > the backpressure noise for the rear passengers. > Also, mirrors are the things a lot of these people > don't get installed. > If your ear is tuned like mine, a stock non-M3 just > doesn't sound the same. > Basically, it's not hard to make an E36 look like an > ///M. I once had a guy in a 328 pull up next to me and > said that the car was fake and peeled out. Let's just > say it didn't take much to convince him. > That was one of the complaints us ///M owners gave to > BMW NA and they fixed that with the E46. I can't > imagine people cutting up their fenders to get the > gills and replacing the hood with the power dome. 4 > tipped dual exhaust is pretty expensive plumbing as > well. > You shouldn't have to worry whether there are fake > M3's out there. It's inevitable. Last night I saw a V8 > emblem on a Honda. It could have one, who cares? > Just don't get hung up on it. > > Cheers, > > Ed Tang > 95 Cosmos M3 (with a Mercedes V12 emblem on the trunk) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message. > ************************************************************* > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message. > *************************************************************
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#9. Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) - from Steve Sun
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:46:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Sun <stevesun@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) > distance, right? Not sure what an Integra can do (sure it probably has smaller > brakes, but it's also lighter, right?...tires are also narrower too). My Integra Type R consistently out-brakes my M3, on the track, using the same pads (R4). Why? Because it is 600 lbs. lighter, with disks that are almost as big as the ones on the M3. I love my M3, but it needs bigger brakes. Steve 99 M3
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#10. RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:44:50 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <jbassett@geysernetworks.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... > Well, the M3 4 door came with the sport seats, not the Vader > seats. But here's > a few things: > > - M stripes on the leather seats Unless it was a "Leather Credit" car, in which case the M stripes are on the headrests, not the seatbacks. Cheers, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 - "Leather Credit" car :-)
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#11. Re: M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:49:40 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: M3 vs. Non M3 E36... on 5/15/01 1:44 PM, "Fadeev, Alex" <alex.fadeev@verizon.com> wrote: > How about a reality check: every non-neglected car on the road has big > enough breaks to engage ABS (or lock the tires) at any speed. And it's > highly unlikely that either you or the car behind you have been braking hard > enough to fade the stock brakes on the street. So getting close to being > rear ended has more to do with you braking unexpectedly and the reaction > time of the driver behind you. Reality check for you, Alex <g> - not every car has equal braking ability. It's a question of weight and grip, not fade. From the Road & Track road test summary: Make/model 80-0 mph ========================= ======== BMW M3 200 feet Acura Integra GS-R 242 Chevy Corvette Z06 212 Viper GTS 278 Ferrari 360 Modena 188 VW New Beetle 272 Rolls Royce Silver Seraph 295 I you were to brake hard into the ABS, your M3 would soon be a new hood ornament on that 3 ton Roller behind you. Neil 96 M3