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#1. RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? - from Dave Spragg
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:54:18 -0400 From: "Dave Spragg" <dspragg@mediaone.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? Those are hot temps... cold starting temps are ~ 8 - 10 lbs lower most of the time but that would vary on location, temp, and all kinds of things. With those hot temps on those two tracks I have run times respectable for the car. Not as fast as Kumho and R1 times but only about a second off. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Geof McLaughlin [mailto:gfmiiilist@usa.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:34 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? Date: 15 May 2001 15:32:25 EDT From: Geof McLaughlin <gfmiiilist@usa.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? I do hope at least that you are talking about hot pressures. Max pressure on Toyo RA1s is 44 PSI. I have had good luck starting with 33 PSI (cold) front and 32 PSI (cold) rear on my 95 E36M3. Geof "Dave Spragg" <dspragg@mediaone.net> wrote: All I can say is they like higher pressures that BFG R1's, BFG R1A's, or Kumho V700's to work on the track. I found my car on 17x8's with 235/45-17 RA1's to be happiest with 48 front and 45 rear at NHIS and similar at Lime Rock except softer by 3 lbs on the right hand side tires (made West Bend easier to go fast but gave up a little on the Left Hander). Note that this may have been due to the fact that the M3 is a major swine compared to the S2000 and the fact that they didn't have 235/40-17's when I ran those tires so they wanted to roll over more. Dave Spragg dave@spragg.com Natick, MA 99 M3 Sharked 92 330is Sharked and Supercharged -----Original Message----- From: Rob [mailto:motor@cadvision.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 12:44 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Toyo RA1 - what pressure? Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:38:16 -0600 From: "Rob" <motor@cadvision.com> Subject: Toyo RA1 - what pressure? Anyone have a good baseline pressure for RA1's on an E36? Also, generally speaking, do they like more or less pressure than street tires? My buddy just put a set on his S2000 and we need a place to start. TIA, Rob ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. ************************************************************* ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. ************************************************************* ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. *************************************************************
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Re: M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Fadeev, Alex
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:06:33 -0500 From: "Fadeev, Alex" <alex.fadeev@verizon.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: M3 vs. Non M3 E36... Neil Maller [mailto:neil.maller@gte.net] wrote: > > on 5/15/01 1:44 PM, "Fadeev, Alex" <alex.fadeev@verizon.com> wrote: > > > How about a reality check: every non-neglected car on the > > road has big enough breaks to engage ABS (or lock the tires) > > at any speed. And it's highly unlikely that either you or the > > car behind you have been braking hard enough to fade the stock > > brakes on the street. So getting close to being rear ended has > > more to do with you braking unexpectedly and the reaction time > > of the driver behind you. > > Reality check for you, Alex <g> - not every car has equal > braking ability. It's a question of weight and grip, not fade. I stand corrected. Though I still suspect that most recent well maintained cars on the US roads can lock their breaks, that presumption does not guarantee similar brake distances. I totally neglected to consider the effect of tire traction on brake distances (weight was clearly working in GS-R's favor). For all we know GS-R was running on the Pep Boy's $99/4 tires specials - a rear end waiting to happen. alex f
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#3. Re: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) - from Rich Gay
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:11:10 -0500 From: Rich Gay <rich_gay@mac.com> Subject: Re: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) on 5/15/01 2:54 PM, Steve Sun at stevesun@midway.uchicago.edu wrote: > My Integra Type R consistently out-brakes my M3, on the track, using the > same pads (R4). Why? Because it is 600 lbs. lighter, with disks that are > almost as big as the ones on the M3. I love my M3, but it needs bigger > brakes. Is your M3 able to engage the ABS during hard braking? If so, then how will bigger brakes help stop you shorter? The tires are already at the limit of their grip. Bigger brakes will help reduce fade, rotor warping, etc. There was a pretty good write-up about this in Grassroots Motorsports a few months ago. - Rich
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#4. Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Wen Liew
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:11:33 -0700 From: "Wen Liew" <wwliew@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... >I guess my question was geared towards if it's possible to verify by just >looking at the seats. But as Tony said, M3 with lux package and/or 4 doors >come with the "normal" 328 seats. Do these luxury seats have the M stripes? >Also, are the "Darth Vader" seats those also called Sport seats and >"Bucket" >seats? I remembered browsing through a 98 M3 catalog and noticed that, IIRC, the coupes have the "M-Style" while sedans and convertibles have M-Sport seats. The seats on all lux cars and convertibles do not have stripes. The non-lux coupes have M-Style aka Darth Vader seats with stripes. The non-lux sedans...ooh tricky one, some have stripes on the seat, some have stripes on the headrests, and some have no stripes (stripe delete option??) Wen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#5. Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Scott Smith
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:21:08 -0700 From: Scott Smith <ssmith@akamai.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... > How about a reality check: every non-neglected car on the road has big > enough breaks to engage ABS (or lock the tires) at any speed. And it's braking distance is affected by more than "can I lock up the brakes". 1. weight distribution of the car -- in the M3's favor, since it can use the rear brakes more effectively. 2. weight of the car -- in the integra's favor, because it's lighter. 3. tires -- probably in the M3's favor, because they are wider and probably stickier (pure speculation here) 4. quality of ABS -- can the M3 independently modulate the brakes to all 4 wheels? how about the Integra? yes, driver response time is also a factor, and may have been the case in this incident, but there *are* other factors to consider as well. Scott
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#6. RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Juan Rico
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:25:26 -0700 From: Juan Rico <juan_rico@captionsinc.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... Another tip: If the car is a 4 door but it's got the "fat" side markers, it's a fake, since M3 sedans didn't appear until, I believe, 97 and by then the side markers were changed to the thin ones... -----Original Message----- From: Wen Liew [mailto:wwliew@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 1:15 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:11:33 -0700 From: "Wen Liew" <wwliew@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... >I guess my question was geared towards if it's possible to verify by just >looking at the seats. But as Tony said, M3 with lux package and/or 4 doors >come with the "normal" 328 seats. Do these luxury seats have the M stripes? >Also, are the "Darth Vader" seats those also called Sport seats and >"Bucket" >seats? I remembered browsing through a 98 M3 catalog and noticed that, IIRC, the coupes have the "M-Style" while sedans and convertibles have M-Sport seats. The seats on all lux cars and convertibles do not have stripes. The non-lux coupes have M-Style aka Darth Vader seats with stripes. The non-lux sedans...ooh tricky one, some have stripes on the seat, some have stripes on the headrests, and some have no stripes (stripe delete option??) Wen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. *************************************************************
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#7. Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... - from Jim Powell
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:28:11 -0700 From: Jim Powell <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... Don't forget that M3s get Zymol and Bon Ami treatments :) Jim Miki, get Michael to rejoin the group Scott Smith wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:21:08 -0700 > From: Scott Smith <ssmith@akamai.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36... > > > How about a reality check: every non-neglected car on the road has big > > enough breaks to engage ABS (or lock the tires) at any speed. And it's > > braking distance is affected by more than "can I lock up the brakes". > > 1. weight distribution of the car -- in the M3's favor, since it can > use the rear brakes more effectively. > > 2. weight of the car -- in the integra's favor, because it's lighter. > > 3. tires -- probably in the M3's favor, because they are wider and > probably stickier (pure speculation here) > > 4. quality of ABS -- can the M3 independently modulate the brakes to > all 4 wheels? how about the Integra? > > yes, driver response time is also a factor, and may have been the case > in this incident, but there *are* other factors to consider as well. > > Scott > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message. > *************************************************************
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#8. RE: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) - from Rob Norwalk
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:38:00 -0500 From: "Rob Norwalk" <Robert_J_Norwalk@raytheon.com> Subject: RE: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) Against my (limited) judgement... You don't need bigger brakes...really. Most probably you need to use the ones you have less and more effectively :) Chances are that if you're having issues with a stock BMW system equipped with race pads, you're also overslowing the car before the corner(s). Even some really experienced drivers do this, and end up going slower and simultaneously beating up their equipment (not that I mind, driving a lowly 325..). It can really be enlightening to spend a few sessions maximizing corner entry speed, as opposed to late breaking points. Often, there are lots more hidden clock ticks in the former than the latter. The funny thing is how hard it is convincing a brake stomper to change tactics. Generating loads of G forces in violent transitions may feel fast, but is rarely effective. The old adage of smoother is faster has an added benefit: it's easier on equipment, too. Just another 2 cents, Rob Norwalk 93 Non M3 E36 - little brakes, little engine, lots of fun
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#9. Re: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) - from Steve Sun
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:40:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Sun <stevesun@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) > Is your M3 able to engage the ABS during hard braking? Yes, ABS is active during hard braking. > If so, then how will > bigger brakes help stop you shorter? The tires are already at the limit of > their grip. This is a concept that I don't fully understand. Let's say you have a 325i and an M3, both weigh about the same. Put the same tires on both cars. Although the M3 has bigger brakes, you are saying that both cars will stop in the same distance if the ABS is engaged on both cars. This is clearly not the case. Also, why does the Boxster S stop better (shorter) than the Boxster? They are the same car (engine aside) except the S has bigger brakes. Steve 99 M3
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#10. RE: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) - from Steve Sun
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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:53:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Sun <stevesun@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: RE: Brakes (was: RE: [E36M3] M3 vs. Non M3 E36...) > You don't need bigger brakes...really. Most probably you need to use the > ones you have less and more effectively :) I don't "need" bigger brakes. They are just fine on the track, but my point earlier is that my Type R out-brakes my M3 because of it weighs less, and has better "brake size to weight" ratio. Steve 99 M3