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#1. RE: [E36M3] Bilsteins, bumpstops, harsh, harsh, harsh, bouncy, bo - from Fadeev, Alex
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:24:52 -0400 From: "Fadeev, Alex" <alex.fadeev@verizon.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Bilsteins, bumpstops, harsh, harsh, harsh, bouncy, bo uncy, bouncy John Bergstrom [mailto:john0990@yahoo.com] wrote: > > The summary is, any car I have driven with the Bilstein sport > shocks is HARSH AND BOUNCY. That's the bottom line. Hey John, Did you notice that every Bilstein-ed car you've driven had untrimmed bump stops? *Hint, hint* ;-) > However, I have spoken with Turner Motorsport and 911 Enterprises > (dealer for Bilstein's) regarding trimming the bump stops and > they both insist that unless you go much lower (H&R race springs, > for example) you are NOT going to hit the bump stops. And what were Will's and Barry's data points for arriving to those conclusions? I know Turner is da man for E30 M3 J-stock suspension kits that include E30 M3 Bilstein Sport shocks. For E30 M3s, Sport bump stops may well be properly sized. But the argument here is about the likely backward-ass designed E36 M3 Bilstein sport bump stops. > Am I saying that Lowell is wrong? I don't know. Sure you are, and Lowell will kick your butt at the next track junkies lunch ;-))) > But the "data" that I have acculumated (particularly that I have > driven a car with Bilsteins/stock springs and it was still HARSH > and BOUNCY) suggests that trimming the bump stops WILL NOT HELP. How so? You've only driven un-trimmed Bilstein-ed cars and they were all bouncy. If I read you correctly I would have to conclude that E36 M3 Bilstein Sports with untrimmed bump stops are bouncy. Lowell has found out that trimming them improves the ride. He also measured the compressed Bilstein Sport height at an equilibrium and found it to be identical to the bump stop starting level. His car is only lowered 1/2". That would lead me to believe that Bilstein Sport bump stops need to be trimmed even with stock springs. > Both cars that I drove with the Koni's . . . . street ride is > BEAUTIFUL. NEAR OR BETTER THAN STOCK ON THE STREET. I did not > drive these on track, so I can't compare the performance difference. Yeah, we haven't seen you at any of this year autoXs, nor at the track day at MR. Wazzup with that? > I am seriously considering going to a Koni SA / Eibach Prokit setup. > > Anyone have Dinan's number? I agree with Mark, I have just > about given up trying to figure this out. > > John > '95 M3 >
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Bilstein Saved!! - from Wen Liew
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Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:42:08 -0700 From: "Wen Liew" <wwliew@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Bilstein Saved!! >From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> > >Yes, a year ago, I inquired and Bilstein San Diego would revalve shocks > >for, > >IIRC, $100 each and trim bumpstops for $25. Problem is, what would you > >revalve it to? > >You couldn't just specify to Bilstein what springs/rates you'll be running >and they could adjust accordingly? Bilstein told me that their shocks would work on OEM and all the way to H&R Race springs, and I believe them then. It's just that some of us may be happy with it and some not whether on track or on street. So in the end, you'll still need to tell them what you want them revalved to and it is $100 a pop ;-( By the time you pay for revalving, trim bump stops and shipping, you could probably get a PSS CO kit. > >Or a better deal would be > >Bilsteins Coilover PSS or PSS-9 kits, which are on sale till 7/15 for >$899 > >and $1299, respectively. > > > >They don't have them made specifically for M3s though, do they? The only difference is the sway bar mounting point. The PSS kits do not have the mounting tabs on the front strut probably because it allows for a real slammed ride. However, you can mount to the control arms a la E36 non-M. Unless one's a really good driver or anally retentive, I doubt the effect would be that dramatic. Also for the 96-99, a 10-15mm spacer is needed. I have had great success with Bilstein on my older BMW. On the M3, with larger sways, I love the way it handles and ride on smooth roads. I just wished it was 1.25" lower (I'm at 13.75" in the front) and that it doesn't get a little bouncy on the 101 (between Hampshire and Lynn, you know where that is right? ;)) on my commute. Wen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#3. Re: Bilsteins - from Mark Kelly
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Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:37:24 -0400 From: Mark Kelly <mark@garden.net> Subject: Re: Bilsteins Bob, How much does re-valving costs? mark >Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 10:36:16 -0500 >From: Bob Stommel <rstommel@iquest.net> >Subject: Bilsteins > >I've used Bilstein Sports on three E36 M3s and one E30 M3 for everything >from street to driving schools to racing. I have also used Koni >single-adjustables on both model M3s. The problem with Bilsteins is not >the internal bump stops. The harsh ride is caused by the stiff "bump" >compression set by the factory. This is one of the things that can be done >when Bilsteins are "re-valved" for the street -- soften the bump >setting. The Konis come from the factory with softer bump settings. The >hardest bump setting on a standard Koni double-adjustable is still slightly >softer than the stock Bilstein Sport. > >So, if you don't like the "harsh" ride of an off-the-shelf Bilstein, get it >revalved. Or choose the Konis. But keep in mind that for track use, >depending on the smoothness of track surface and car setup, the stiffer >bump setting of the Bilstein will actually give you better performance. > >HTH, >Bob Stommel >Indianapolis
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#4. Re: [E36M3] shocks - from Wen Liew
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Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:51:32 -0700 From: "Wen Liew" <wwliew@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] shocks >From: "Kit Wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> > >The H&R coilovers have a modified bilstein strut. It's revalved and >shortened. But, you know what? They ride *really* nicely. I'm totally >happy with mine For those thinking of revalving the Bilsteins, the rear springs on the H&R CO are the same as the H&R Sports, 29936HA is printed on the black springs. So, if your car is bouncy at the rear and you have H&R Sports, you might want to find out the compression and rebound rates of the H&R COs. Don't know about the front....29936VA vs 29910VA. Wen - pretty sick to have had the numbers memorized but then again I deal with numbers in my day job ;) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#5. RE: [E36M3] Bilsteins, bumpstops, harsh, ... - from Bill Lackey
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Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:48:47 -0700 From: "Bill Lackey" <btlackey@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Bilsteins, bumpstops, harsh, ... I've cut the bumpstops in the Bilstiens I had after a recommendation from Jay Morris at Ground Control. It's actually pretty easy if you heat up the base to break the Locktite. It has been thier experience that the Bilstien's ride on the stops if the car is lowered. This did help the ride, but not by much on my car. I think the Bilstiens are just too long for the E36 M3, especially when lowered. Its my guess that Bilstien made these for the stock E36 and did not change it for the E36 M3. I finally gave up on the Bilstiens and switched to the Ground Control Advanced Racing shocks. These can be set up for anything you wish, and are double adjustable (rebound and bump). While not cheap, this seems like the best way to go, and Ground Control's service has been great. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#6. Re: shocks - from Mark Kelly
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Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:52:24 -0400 From: Mark Kelly <mark@garden.net> Subject: Re: shocks Kit, What is the highest setting the H&R coilovers can be set at? Can they be set to stock height? mark >-------------------- 11 -------------------- >Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:28:07 -0700 >From: "Kit Wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> >Subject: shocks > > > Both cars that I drove with the Koni's . . . . street ride is BEAUTIFUL. >NEAR > > OR BETTER THAN STOCK ON THE STREET. I did not drive these on track, so I >can't > > compare the performance difference. > >Errr... wow. Dunno whose car with konis that you drove, but my M3/4 with >29910s and konis didn't ride all that well at all. I mean, it wasn't >horrible, but clearly worse than stock. Boing boing! > >The H&R coilovers have a modified bilstein strut. It's revalved and >shortened. But, you know what? They ride *really* nicely. I'm totally >happy with mine. (although I'm having withdrawals, while the car is in the >body shop... yikes!) > > -kit > 97 m3/4 - only height adjustment > 01 cbr-600 F4i - stock has preload, and separate compression and rebound >adjustments
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#7. First Drive 2002 Mini Cooper - from Joe Dyer
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:11:17 -0700 From: "Joe Dyer" <joedyer@home.com> Subject: First Drive 2002 Mini Cooper No E36M3 content, but maybe of interest - check this URL -- http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/46523/article.html Joe
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#8. What about the S54? - from Brent Williams
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:15:36 -0400 From: "Brent Williams" <brent@williamsconsultingltd.com> Subject: What about the S54? OK... Now heres a new twist... Assuming the new M3 and M Roadster has the M54 engines. With 325 horses per say... How much work would it be to put in an E36? I mean it should bolt right up right? Especially from a new Mroadster to and old Z3 or so. Thats an idea. How long till someone totals a new car? What are your thoughts.... How much work would it be? Brent b@bmwmpire.com
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#9. WTB: Used set of OEM Counturs - from James Forbis
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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:24:31 -0400 From: James Forbis <james@4bis.com> Subject: WTB: Used set of OEM Counturs I am looking for a used set of Contours to put some track tires on. If you have a set let me know what you want for them. Thanks James Forbis
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#10. More Bilsteins - from Wen Liew
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Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 16:26:40 -0700 From: "Wen Liew" <wwliew@hotmail.com> Subject: More Bilsteins It must be Friday. It just occured to me that with the Bilstein PSS-9 CO 9-way shock adjustable kit, one can potentially have 6,561 (9 x 9 x 9 x 9) different settings ;-) Or at one setting a day and it'll be 18 years before one gets to try them all. Just that is worth the extra $400. More realistically, 81 settings isn't bad before one gets to "Set it and forget it" ;) Wen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com