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#1. RE: [E36M3] Cheap tires - from Juan Rico
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:17:44 -0700 From: Juan Rico <juan_rico@captionsinc.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cheap tires Somebody wrote: "I can light up the Kumhos 1st, thru 2nd and they finally grip going into 3rd. Even if I am already moving in 1st, nail the throttle, they will just go up in smoke." Jeez, I must have total dog of a car, or you must have an AA stage II turbo, because there is no way on earth I can light up my tires this way. And I also have Khumos. What's the trick to performing this feat? Now I'm wondering if I should get a compression test... Juan. -----Original Message----- From: Seth Thomas [mailto:porsche993@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 11:34 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cheap tires Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:41:27 -0400 From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cheap tires So much for that secret..... Seth Thomas www.m3ltw.com -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lawrence [mailto:95m3ltw@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:24 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:19:10 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <95m3ltw@home.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires ----- Original Message ----- From: <peter@guagenti.com> > The scary part about all of this is, there _are_ very good performing tires at > a moderate price. The Bridgestone RE730, Toyo FZ4, and old Pirelli > P7000's are a great example I know it is funny to listen to folks argue back and forth about 'cheap' tires for a car such as an M3. I currently have a set of the Kumhos on my street wheels for my race car. I would say they are ok in the rain, decent grip but are nowhere near a Pilot Sport nor even close to a P7000. The P7000 SS is a super underrated tire, I found that it is within a sec of what my R compound Kumhos are at Road Atlanta. In the Porsche club, it has been a long time 'secret' about the P7000, get a few laps on them at the track and they stick like glue. They are bad about getting greasy when hot, but for a street tire, I put them up with the Pilots. The problem with the Kumhos, I would say they approach the limit of my typical street driving. On several ocassions on On/Off ramps, I would experience some sliding that with the P7000s I didnt. And I think someone stated they had better straight line grip than a Pilot????? WTF, your set must be much different than mine. I can light up the Kumhos 1st, thru 2nd and they finally grip going into 3rd. Even if I am already moving in 1st, nail the throttle, they will just go up in smoke. THEY ARE THE Worst tire I have personally used for straight line accelration on an M3. But I also laugh out loud really hard when I see people talking about getting over 8k miles on a set of tires. YOU DONT NEED TO BE DRIVING AN M3 IF YOU BABY IT THAT MUCH, I think an 328 would do you fine for the little hard driving you do then. I love going to club meetings and hearing someone talking about getting 25k + out of tires on an M3. Makes me want to slap them, "Man that car is made for driving" Where are the M-police when you need them, haha mike ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. ************************************************************* ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. *************************************************************
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires - from Rob Jackowitz
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Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 15:22:07 -0400 From: "Rob Jackowitz" <rjme@msn.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires Hey, I resemble that remark! :) My rear OEM MXX3's lasted 20K+ miles...which included a handful of driving schools. So what exactly is "hard driving"? If running at 130+ mph on sparsely traveled highways, or taking highway exit ramps at 3 times the posted limit is considered babying, then I am guilty. However, my wife and young kids say that I am now too mature to be laying down rubber and breaking the back end loose every time I get into 1st or 2nd gear. Of course, I tell them I'm really not as mature as they think I am :) > >But I also laugh out loud really hard when I see people talking about >getting over 8k miles on a set of tires. YOU DONT NEED TO BE DRIVING >AN M3 IF YOU BABY IT THAT MUCH, I think an 328 would do you fine for the >little hard driving you do then. I love going to club meetings and >hearing >someone talking about getting 25k + out of tires on an M3. Makes me want >to >slap them, "Man that car is made for driving" Where are the M-police when >you need them, haha > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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#3. F1 Magazine - from Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:24:20 -0500 From: Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR <chris.darling@scott.af.mil> Subject: F1 Magazine > Hi everyone. I wanted to pass along a tip to whoever is interested. If > you are like me, you probably get your automobile tests and reviews from > "AutoWeek" and your in-depth race coverage from "Racer." ("Motor Trend", > as you know, is RIGHT OUT.) > > Call me reckless if you like, but I broke with the routine and checked out > a new magazine. I was browsing the rack at Borders this weekend and > stumbled upon "F-1, Formula One Magazine." The thing is huge and costs > like eight bucks. But it's full of in-depth articles and > behind-the-scenes photos from the F1 circus. And plenty of stuff about > BMW-Williams (OBMWC). Check it out. > > Cod >
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires - from Vern Anderson
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Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 15:36:04 -0400 From: Vern Anderson <vanderson@cerebellumsoft.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires Just to clarify, H rated is up to a SUSTAINED speed of 130 mph, not 85 - quite a difference! Almost ANY name-brand tire sold today is at least an S, which is 112 mph. Don't forget, these are for sustained speeds. I have been at 130+ mph in my M3 many times (Summit, VIR, Watkins) and I have no desire to ever visit those speeds in an SUV with All-season Firestones - or on the street in any M3. I would have no problems personally driving with a H-rated, relatively cheap street tire, provided I never had to autocross or track with them..... Vern Anderson >-------------------- 7 -------------------- >Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:34:58 US/Pacific >From: peter@guagenti.com >Subject: Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires > >...One of my pet peeves about the whole Firestone thing is the fact that the >recalled tires were mostly H-rated tires. H-rated! I believe that's >recommended to 85? A large number of the accidents that started with >the tire shedding its tread were closer to 95. Regardless of whether the >tire was defective or not, you are driving at a dangerous speed on a tire >not built for it. > >The same idea rolls over to our cars -- its easy to find the limits of your >tires on the M3, whether by intent or stupidity. Why get cheap about finding >good rubber? It's the _only_ thing connecting you to the road.
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#5. RE: [E36M3] Cheap tires - from Matt Henson
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:37:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cheap tires Don't run out and get that compression test just yet. I've got an AA turbo and I can't break the RE-730's loose from a rolling start (pointed straight, >75F, dry pavement). Maybe the Kumhos are too hard or something. -Matt --- Juan Rico <juan_rico@captionsinc.com> wrote: > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:17:44 -0700 > From: Juan Rico <juan_rico@captionsinc.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cheap tires > > Somebody wrote: > > "I can light up the Kumhos > 1st, thru 2nd and they finally grip going into 3rd. > Even if I am already > moving in 1st, nail the throttle, they will just go > up in smoke." > > Jeez, I must have total dog of a car, or you must > have an AA stage II turbo, > because there is no way on earth I can light up my > tires this way. > And I also have Khumos. What's the trick to > performing this feat? > Now I'm wondering if I should get a compression > test... > > Juan. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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#6. Various Rants about TC, etc. (was:Anyone got one 245/40ZR17 MXX3 - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:40:05 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Various Rants about TC, etc. (was:Anyone got one 245/40ZR17 MXX3 for sale?) A couple of people have commented on my comment in my sig line ("95 M3 - we don't need no stinking TC ;-) I was thinking of the famous movie line "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges" when I wrote that and was really just kidding around, hence, the ;-) at the end. If I had TC, it would probably stay on at all times except for the track. Also, I recall the one individual who stated that his Kumho's give him more straight line traction than his Michelin's. Dude, either they really softened the compound on your particular set of Kumhos or your Michelins were rock hard as their is no way this is true on a typical tire comparison. Kumho is a good tire for the money but it is no Michelin in any aspect but wet traction (and I personally feel the MXX3 is underrated in the wet but everyone has to find one shortcoming of this tire). Lastly, listers claiming that their tires only last 8k or 40k is almost impossible to compare. Driving styles vary widely. I have had my 95 M3 bought with half worn MXX3s at four track schools and 8k street miles since and they are holding up much better than I figured. Admittedly, two of the schools were cool and wet (saving the tires a good bit) but two were pretty warm and I was pushing the car fairly well I may add. No, this did not mean smoky burnouts or tail slides in the corners. Rather, I was moved up a group both those weekends and enjoyed running with the Euros or the club cars in the group typically on R compounds with race pads. No flames intended above and if you interpreted it that way, you misinterpreted. :-) Regards, Rich 95 M3 - Still no TC but if anyone wants to pay for it to be retrofitted, I will take it. I already have the UUC strut bar so it will accommodate the retrofit. Please email privately. - shod with MXX3s for the street (brand new set in storage) - shod with AO32Rs on SSRs for the track (once those darn MXX3s wear out)
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires - from Michael Lawrence
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:48:31 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <95m3ltw@home.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Cheap tires "Rob Jackowitz" <rjme@msn.com> Is known to have said--- > Hey, I resemble that remark! :) "Jim Bassett" <jbassett@geysernetworks.com> Actually got up on a soap box to say > <rant> > <soapbox> > Since when is tire life an indication of whether or not you "baby" a car? > you're abusing the equipment and need a driving style change. Gawd folks, it was a joke, haha, you know a joke. Always remember, if I post something, half of it is just poking fun about something, if you dont find the humor, how does the saying go "... if they cant take a joke" As to the Kumhos spinning easy, I am not talking about dropping the clutch at 6k sitting still, I am talking about any type of full throttle application in first, some situations in 2nd. They just spin very easy compared to the P7000s, Pilots I have had. My LTW has aprx. 235hp at the rear wheels. but I used a set on my other 95 daily driver and it had 209 at the rear wheels but would still spin them easily enough. With P7000s, I could pull out of a side street and if I was in 2nd, floor it and just accelerate without drama, with the Kumho's, both rear wheels will just spin their hearts out. Sometimes it is fun, but I dont like the attention it draws and it does catch me off guard at times too. Me abusing equipment and needing a driving style change, c'mon Jim dont go there. I usually make comments that I can back up with actually really racing these cars. I also owned 2, one for the track, one for the street, didnt like the compromise of not having all the safety equipement for a street car. Mike 95 M3 LTW still forsale, full details to follow soon. slowely converting it back to bone stock
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Rant about tires - from Michael Lawrence
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:59:19 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <95m3ltw@home.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rant about tires One other thing I meant to mention. It is not a good idea to compare your own tire life to other folks unless you spend alot of time with them to see what kind of driving style they have. case in point, Rich mentioned his impressions about the pilots and how well they lasted for 2 schools. I spent a weekend back in 97 in a New then 97 M3/4a. 4 door automatic. It only had 1100 miles on it with michelin pilots. 2 day school at sebring, full course. The person driving was a retired racer. Needless to say, riding with him sold me on the M3. Here was a bone stock automatic M3 that was by far the fastest car out there. I noticed him rotating the tires after every session. Sunday he had corded 3 of them. And they were worn smooth evenly across the whole tire on top of that. I was mighty impressed with the car and the tires for a street tire. This would have been comparable to Boris Said driving etc, so it was a E-ticket ride for sure. And this person only had hte car for about a week, so it was new to him aswell. Simply unbelievable driving ability. Go fast= use up tires fast, it is a fact of life regardless of driving style. I remember thinking that I did not know if I could afford to own a M3 if it ate tires like that, haha. Mike
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#9. Cheap tires - from Ed Tang
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:04:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Tang <etangf1@yahoo.com> Subject: Cheap tires Heck, I was talking to the hotshoe at Windy City and he runs two sets of tires. Kumho V700's in the summer and Blizzaks in the winter. He gets around 6000 miles on them with an autocross season in em. I did the same thing last year with Yoko A032-R's. I was too lazy to swap to street tires after the first event so I ran them on the street, about 10 autocrosses and 3 track events. The Yoko's are good in the rain until the tread wears down. Not as good as R compound but better than hi-po street compounds. I was considering the same this year but I already had two S-02's in the storage closet. With the prices low, it only made sense to buy 2 new ones and run those at the autocrosses. Ed Original message: >I know it is funny to listen to folks argue back and >forth about 'cheap' tires for a car such as an M3. >I currently have a set of the Kumhos on my street >wheels for my race car. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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#10. Heavy use weak spots and things to watch? - from Vern Anderson
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Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:14:33 -0400 From: Vern Anderson <vanderson@cerebellumsoft.com> Subject: Heavy use weak spots and things to watch? Hello everyone, My M3 has treated me very, very well over the past few years but I'm starting to suspect that this won't last forever. I closely inspect it regularly and I do as much preventative maintenance as possible, but I fear the steady diet of heavy track and autocross work is going to take its toll. From 4/99-7/00 while in stock form, the car saw 22 autocrosses and 13 track days. In July 2000 I installed coilovers, sways, camber plates, x-brace, rear shock mounts, SA Koni's, etc and then proceeded to do another 13 autocrosses and 21 track days since then. For my own and everyone else's benefit, I'd like to try to compile a list of common wear/breakage items for a heavily used M3 (regardless of mileage). The things I'm aware of or have heard of are: Suspension: Rear shock mounts Rear trailing arm bushings? Control arms? Engine: Water pump - usually an early 95 problem with the plastic impeller VANOS unit? I've heard of some failing, but I'm unsure if this is normal Brakes: Caliper rebuilds Other: Power Steering pump Driveshaft flex disk CV Joints? I'm not including things like brake rotors, pads, etc. that I consider wear items. I'm looking for the abnormal items that will fail without warning. My car has BMWCCA Club Racing in its immediate future, so its harsh life is only going to get worse. Any input in this area would be appreciated - I'll post a compiled list in a week or so for everyone's use. Vern Anderson 98 M3/2 - still ticking, but can't last forever.... P.S. Anyone know of an early E36 (1992-1993) 325 track car (for SCCA ITS or BMWCCA use) for sale so I can stop flogging my poor M3??