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#1. Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? - from The Abels
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:20:01 -0600 From: "The Abels" <aAbel@austin.rr.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? Thanks Matt. I have a 2:00 appointment. Love to hear any other suggestions. I'm scared of the monkeys. Jeff 97 M3/4 > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:00:29 -0800 (PST) > From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? > > Hey Jeff, > I'm not sure that there is a good place to tie down on > a dyno. Most dyno operators use the lower control > arms, which is obviously dangerous. The lower > subframe member under the tranny is solid enough but > too close to the center to properly stabilize the car. > I don't think that there is much of anything else > down there. > > I've had my car dynoed about 6 times without bent > control arms. Maybe the key is to put the straps on > the outside of the arms, near the wheel and trailing > arm. That way the force isn't directed at the center > of the lower control arm so it shouldn't bend. > Any experts out there with advice? > > -Matt > > > I'm heading back to the dyno tomorrow afternoon to > > see if the trinkets I > > added to the M3 do anything. Last time I went, the > > toothless monkeys at the > > speed shop had trouble finding appropriate tie down > > spots in the rear. > > Anyone know what these are? I have visions of > > torqued, pretzled lower > > control arms that give me the shivers. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > >
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#2. More About Brakes (No, not pads) - from Gardner, Russell - BALTO
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:25:44 -0500 From: "Gardner, Russell - BALTO" <russell.gardner@piperrudnick.com> Subject: More About Brakes (No, not pads) Gruppe: What is the Gruppe's collective wisdom about when to change brake pads? In the case of track pads, I have been told that half worn pads should go because their heat absorption capacity has been substantially degraded. I have also been told, again for track pads, that if you are not on the backing plate, the pads are still good. Russ Gardner '95 M3 ____________________________________________________________________________ The information contained in this communication may be confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. Thank you. For more information about Piper Marbury Rudnick & Wolfe, please visit us at http://www.piperrudnick.com ____________________________________________________________________________
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#3. Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? - from Blair Hartsfield
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:27:15 -0600 From: Blair Hartsfield <res04ans@gte.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? The proper tie down points are the T-Hooks under the jack pads. An X-pattern will have to be used. You'll probably have to bring your own T-Hooks, available for about $20 at Northern Tools. You may even have to bring the longer tie downs. blair 95 M3 > From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > Reply-To: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:09:40 -0600 > To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? > > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:00:29 -0800 (PST) > From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? > > Hey Jeff, > I'm not sure that there is a good place to tie down on > a dyno. Most dyno operators use the lower control > arms, which is obviously dangerous. The lower > subframe member under the tranny is solid enough but > too close to the center to properly stabilize the car. > I don't think that there is much of anything else > down there. > > I've had my car dynoed about 6 times without bent > control arms. Maybe the key is to put the straps on > the outside of the arms, near the wheel and trailing > arm. That way the force isn't directed at the center > of the lower control arm so it shouldn't bend. > Any experts out there with advice? > > -Matt > > --- The Abels <aAbel@austin.rr.com> wrote: >> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:28:07 -0600 >> From: "The Abels" <aAbel@austin.rr.com> >> Subject: dyno testing, proper hold down points? >> >> I'm heading back to the dyno tomorrow afternoon to >> see if the trinkets I >> added to the M3 do anything. Last time I went, the >> toothless monkeys at the >> speed shop had trouble finding appropriate tie down >> spots in the rear. >> Anyone know what these are? I have visions of >> torqued, pretzled lower >> control arms that give me the shivers. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > >
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#4. Parts for sale - from John Genereux
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:09:53 -0800 (PST) From: John Genereux <white98m3@yahoo.com> Subject: Parts for sale Hello all, I have the following parts for sale off my 98 m3. All parts except the rotors are 1 year old. Full Stereo system for E36 Custom Mounting board for the amp Soundstream 555 amp (500w 5 channel) JL audio stealths MB quart fronts (factory replacements) Sony CD deck with orange illumination (looks close) $1000 + shipping This is the best you can get without going totally custom. Eastern motorwerks gauges Oil press, oil temp, voltage with CF face and sunglass holder also JTD sending unit adapter. $250 + shipping Full set of euro cryo treated front rotors with cool willy pads front and rear Rotors and front pads look brand new. (0% wear on rotors 10% wear on front pads) Rear pads are about %50 worn. $250 + shipping. Email me if you interested. JOHN ===== ///M3's and Jet Skis/// __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
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#5. Vanos Chain Tensioner - from Jason Lombard
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:54:15 -0800 From: "Jason Lombard" <racebro@santacruzbicycles.com> Subject: Vanos Chain Tensioner Howdy fellow listers, I'm getting some excessive Vanos rattle, I need the part number for the upper tensioner-- the one that's easy to replace. I checked the ETK, but since I really don't know exactly what i'm looking for.... I figured that Chester or Lowell should be able to shed some light on subject without typing too much. :) Thanks. Jason Lombard '95 M3 White/Black ------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 7:19 AM Subject: [E36M3] E36M3 #1780 > This digest contains the following messages: > > 1. Re: [E36M3] WAS Suspension Upgrades cont. > by: <LoweSeaton@aol.com> > 2. Re: [E36M3] Turning in a leased car, how picky are they? > by: Jay Sala <jsala@mist.com> > 3. Re: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades cont. > by: <LoweSeaton@aol.com> > 4. H&R coilovers > by: Kit Wetzler <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> > 5. Re: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades > by: <LoweSeaton@aol.com> > 6. Best LTW flywheel? Clutch? > by: <RacerxJLing@aol.com> > 7. Re: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades > by: Steven Hazard <98m3@mediaone.net> > 8. RE: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades > by: Seth Thomas <porsche993@mindspring.com> > 9. Re: [E36M3] WAS Suspension Upgrades cont. > by: The Abels <aAbel@austin.rr.com> > 10. Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? > by: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > > -------------------- 1 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 01:49:26 EST > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] WAS Suspension Upgrades cont. > > > Carey asks: > > > > Can anyone give me an idea of what I should expect from the OEM > shocks on a '99 M3? It has just over 20k miles and feels softer. > > > More lean in the turns, > > etc. > > Could the shocks be toast already > > ? > > Absolutely!! I think the stock OE struts are pure JUNK after 35K miles. > Probably after just 30K miles. See my later post tonight. Your struts > may be a little premature or maybe you are just more perceptive than > most folks. Shocks fade so gradually you don't know they are gone until > they are practically dangerous. > > See if you can get the dealer to replace them under warranty. Good > luck! By the way. It is only the front struts that are bad. I think > the rear shocks can probably last 80K+ miles. > > Lowell Seaton > '95 M3 > Dallas, Texas > > > > > -------------------- 2 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:20:04 +0800 > From: Jay Sala <jsala@mist.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turning in a leased car, how picky are they? > > I leased my E36 328i and put about 12-14 track days on it, plus several > days of auto-x, and the stock tires showed evidence of hard driving as the > outer edges of the front tires were totally worn away. > > Nonetheless, I never heard a complaint from the dealer. In fact, I got my > full security deposit back and when I passed by the dealership a month > later, it was at the front of the lot as a Certified Pre-owned car! > > I had put in a lot of mods (suspension, wheels, intake, exhaust, harnesses, > ECU) but took them all off (except the reprogrammed ECU) before I turned > the car in. They never got back to me about the ECU (by Jim C) or the > clutch, which was beginning to slip a bit. The front fender had been > professional replaced and repainted, and I was paranoid that they'd say > something. > > Good luck. > > - Jay > > > > -------------------- 3 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:15:58 EST > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades cont. > > Mike, > > I'm going to cut and paste my comments into your post. I'm going to make > some pretty strong comments. Don't take it personally. It is just > indicative of my strong opinion regarding the stock OE struts. > > Mike Morris writes: > > > I recently installed a set of Bilstein's on my M3. I kept the stock > > springs to keep the ride somewhat "soft" and since if I lowered my car, I > > would not be able to get into my driveway. > > I think the Bilsteins should get more credit than the springs for the > driveway access. I too was cautious about lowering my M3 because I was > bottoming out on speed bumps and railroad tracks. This is the reason I > choice Dinan springs. However, with Bilsteins on, there is no danger of the > car bottoming or scrapping even if it was lowered 2 inches. A local Dallas > guy has an M3 with Bilstein and H&R Sport springs. These are the H&R springs > that lower about 1.5 inches. Well, my friend also has the LTW splitter on > front. Amazingly, he has not damaged it and he drives his M3 every day. I > attribute this to the Bilsteins. You just don't get much movement with > Bilsteins. I totally removed the bumpstops from my Bilsteins and I have not > even had a hint of "bottoming out" the suspension in 8,000 miles. I think > any impact that can fully compress a Bilstein shock/strut would destroy the > car. > > > Compared to my 80K mile > > original struts, the Bilsteins are like heaven. The car sucks up bigger > > bumps better, and the spring dampening is much better, especially on the > > highway, the car doesn't "float" as much. > > My gawd YES!!! 80K on the originals????? 80K OE struts are not just > "floaty", they are dangerous. You could have put a couple of rubber bands on > your M3 and noticed a world of difference improvement. > > Like you, I agree the Bilsteins do well at bigger bumps and higher speeds. > The Bilsteins are actually fairly comfortable. But it is the small cracks > and breaks in the road that beat you up. Bilsteins don't have any "give" to > allow the suspension to soak up small impacts. > > > I have already driven really > > long distances with this set up and I love it 10-fold more than the stock > > struts. > > Compared to 80K original struts, I'd say it is 100x better. I'm car sick > just thinking of bobbing up and down on 80K OE struts. > > I think one other factor helping you is you kept the original springs. Not > because they are softer than Dinan or H&R but because your ride height is > just enough higher to avoid the god awful Bilstein bumpstop effect. In my > opinion, the Bilstein front struts are poorly designed. They are too long > and have too limited amount of travel until they are onto the internal > bumpstops. My Dinan sprung M3 is about 1/2" lower than stock. As such, I > was exactly ON the Bilstein bumpstops at static height. The end result was I > was constantly bouncing off the bumpstop. I took a 1,500 mile/4 day trip > that just about drove me nuts. It was like riding a damn pogo stick. > > Use of ANY aftermarket springs will put you into the bumpstop with Bilsteins. > I highly recommend removing or at least cutting 2/3 of the internal bumpstop. > > > Remember, springs and struts work as a system. The springs will > > determine your ride height, but more importantly, they have the biggest > > role in how "stiff" the car rides (basically its ability to take a big 'o > > bump.) > > I think I mostly agree with you. Springs control large movements like dips > in the road and braking/cornering. However, shocks play a big role on small > bumps and impacts. The Bilsteins have such a high resistance to any initial > movement, they don't budge on small bumps and the impact gets transmitted to > the car. Result is a harsh ride if the road is not really smooth. > > > If anything, the bilsteins struts only improved the ride compared to the > > OEM's, and the thought of them being too stiff has not even crossed my > > mind. > > I don't know what to say. Perhaps your ride with the 80K junk struts was so > bad you don't notice the harsh Bilstein ride? You just traded one evil for > another. > > > I have never tried the Koni's so I can not compare. I can only > > imagine what a set of H&R sport springs would do to this vehicle! > > Off the car, Koni's seem every bit as stiff as Bilsteins. But Koni's must > allow some easy movement to accommodate small bumps whereas the Bilsteins > don't. Because on the car, Koni's do ride much nicer than Bilsteins. > > Lowell Seaton > '95 M3 - Bilstein equipped but I truly like a stiff suspension. Plus I don't > drive her every day. > > > > -------------------- 4 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:29:57 -0800 > From: "Kit Wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> > Subject: H&R coilovers > > > Personally, I think C/O's are best for predominant track use with > > limited street use. > > Then you need to ride in a car with coilovers. ;) I've put 30K miles on my > H&Rs and they're still awesome. Very comfy, very controlled... much better > than H&R sports and konis. (my previous suspension) sure they are a bit > harsh over bit bumps, but they soak them up MUCH better than the H&R sports > and konis even could dream of. > > -kit > supercharged 97 m3 > > > > -------------------- 5 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:32:19 EST > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades > > OK. Last post from me on Bilsteins (for a while :-) > > Justin writes: > > > A friend and I also recently installed the Bilsteins and combination > > with the H&R OE Springs (NOT THE SPORT ONES!). The car sits a tiny bit > > lower in the front. The bump stops have been trimmed. > > Great!! I highly recommend trimming (or removing) the bumpstops. > > > Ride is slightly stiffer than stock. Not bad on long trips, not as good > > absorbing minor bumps in the road. I'd imagine some lack of dampening on > > small bumps might be attributed to the stiffer upper mounts front and > > rear. > > I agree small bumps are the most annoying with Bilsteins. I'm beginning to > think there may be a WIDE variation in Bilstein struts. Some people don't > mind the Bilstein's ride. I don't see how anybody would think my Bilsteins > are not absurdly stiff. I truly like a stiff suspension but these Bilsteins > are even testing my limits. > > > The stability and handling gains are worth it. The car feels much more > > collected at higher speeds and does not have the floaty feeling. > > > > My OE Boges were pretty soft at 60K as well. > > Absolutely!! Bilsteins are great at high speeds and track use. 60K?? Your > OE struts were not doing anything. No wonder you thought your ride was > floaty. Bilsteins will never be floaty. > > Lowell Seaton > '95 M3 > Dallas, Texas > > > > -------------------- 6 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:16:47 EST > From: RacerxJLing@aol.com > Subject: Best LTW flywheel? Clutch? > > > I have had a Turner ltw flywheel for about a year now and run the BMW OEM > clutch per Will Turner's suggestion. I don't have any noticeable driveline > shock. No problems w/ the flywheel nor the clutch. > > Jeff > > > Okay, anyone know who makes the best E36 LTW flywheel?. A number of > different vendors offer then, although I know for a fact that a few sell the > same part, but are there any appreciable difference between all of them? > To go with the non-dual mass flywheel I would also like a proper clutch disc > with a sprung hub to reduce driveline shock, which is "the" one to get?. > > > Thanks > Rob > > > >> > > > > -------------------- 7 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:19:40 -0600 > From: "Steven Hazard" <98m3@mediaone.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades > > Lowell's thoughts regarding C/O's is correct. The car will feel bouncy > depending on the shock/spring combination. My TC Kline Race C/O kit is not > for timid on the street :-) 450lb front springs & 550lb rears with DA > Konis..... > Even with the rear shocks set on the soffest compression setting for street > driving. > My car has 50K on this suspension as a daily driver. > > What is important to note is that the stifffness of the linear spring is the > culprit....both in ride quality on the street but also suspension travel. > Any decent sized depression in the road will cause my front suspension to > HIT the bump stops hard....BANG~~~~~ > All you have to do is place a Linear C/O Spring next to a Progressive rate > spring to see what I'm talking about....Geee that linear Spring sure looks > tiny :-) > I have posted in the past that my car has a strange setup..I left the front > TC kit alone but do swap springs in the rear since it's so easy. I run a > progressive H&R Sport spring in the rear (385lbs) for street/Auto X > duty...550's for the track. > > IMHO C/O's are for real serious track/autocross folk. A good "package" from > a vender such as Dinan, TC Kline, or Ground Control is what most people > should shoot for. C/O's only offer corner weighting and ride height as a > further asset, and most folks wouldn't be able to notice/take advantage of > this small edge in performance. > > > Cheers, > Steve > > > Somebody with C/O's help me explain this next point. Remember C/O's use > a pure linear rate spring vs. progressive rate springs with > stock/Dinan/H&R/Eibach/etc. Linear rate springs dramatically change the > way your suspension moves. I've heard C/O's described as "bouncy." I > don't think most people will like daily driving on linear rate springs. > Just be sure you know what you are getting into with C/O's on a daily > driver. > > Personally, I think C/O's are best for predominant track use with > limited street use. > > Lowell Seaton > '95 M3 > Dallas, Texas > > > > > -------------------- 8 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:39:55 -0500 > From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades > > Guys, > > Lowell is right about coilovers. They are meant for the track when you use > them with linear springs. But the H&R coilovers do not use a linear rate > spring. It is a progressive rate spring that rides on an adjustable spring > perch. Even the springs on the rear in the setup are progressive. And they > are not 60mm or 2.5" in size like the H&R or Eibach race springs. One way > that I know this is that I cannot fit my SSR Comps on the front of my 1996 > M3 with the H&R coilovers without spacers but on my LTW I can fit them > without any spacers. They are a nice ride for the street. > > Seth Thomas > www.m3ltw.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com [mailto:LoweSeaton@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:40 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades > > > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 01:31:56 EST > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Upgrades > > > Seth and others write: > > > > This is my experience with the coilovers. They are really smooth for > what > you are getting and you can set the height as low as you want them. > They > are stiffer than stock but they are not as stiff as H&R's and Bilstiens > or > the Dinan setup. > > > > Somebody with C/O's help me explain this next point. Remember C/O's use > a pure linear rate spring vs. progressive rate springs with > stock/Dinan/H&R/Eibach/etc. Linear rate springs dramatically change the > way your suspension moves. I've heard C/O's described as "bouncy." I > don't think most people will like daily driving on linear rate springs. > Just be sure you know what you are getting into with C/O's on a daily > driver. > > Personally, I think C/O's are best for predominant track use with > limited street use. > > Lowell Seaton > '95 M3 > Dallas, Texas > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > > > > -------------------- 9 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:33:22 -0600 > From: "The Abels" <aAbel@austin.rr.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] WAS Suspension Upgrades cont. > > > > > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 01:49:26 EST > > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] WAS Suspension Upgrades cont. > > > > Absolutely!! I think the stock OE struts are pure JUNK after 35K miles. > > Probably after just 30K miles. See my later post tonight. Your struts > > may be a little premature or maybe you are just more perceptive than > > most folks. Shocks fade so gradually you don't know they are gone until > > they are practically dangerous. > > > > See if you can get the dealer to replace them under warranty. Good > > luck! By the way. It is only the front struts that are bad. I think > > the rear shocks can probably last 80K+ miles. > > > > Lowell Seaton > > '95 M3 > > Dallas, Texas > > > My experience exactly. At 42k miles, my front wheels 'chatter' over small, > disruptive square edged bumps on city streets. This manifests itself by > sending vibrations through the cabin that should be damped. In addition, > unless I go very slow on some speedbumps in my 'hood, it's easy to blow > through the entirety of the travel up front. > > Jeff > 97 M3/4, in need of H&R coilovers > > > > -------------------- 10 -------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:00:29 -0800 (PST) > From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] dyno testing, proper hold down points? > > Hey Jeff, > I'm not sure that there is a good place to tie down on > a dyno. Most dyno operators use the lower control > arms, which is obviously dangerous. The lower > subframe member under the tranny is solid enough but > too close to the center to properly stabilize the car. > I don't think that there is much of anything else > down there. > > I've had my car dynoed about 6 times without bent > control arms. Maybe the key is to put the straps on > the outside of the arms, near the wheel and trailing > arm. That way the force isn't directed at the center > of the lower control arm so it shouldn't bend. > Any experts out there with advice? > > -Matt > > --- The Abels <aAbel@austin.rr.com> wrote: > > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:28:07 -0600 > > From: "The Abels" <aAbel@austin.rr.com> > > Subject: dyno testing, proper hold down points? > > > > I'm heading back to the dyno tomorrow afternoon to > > see if the trinkets I > > added to the M3 do anything. Last time I went, the > > toothless monkeys at the > > speed shop had trouble finding appropriate tie down > > spots in the rear. > > Anyone know what these are? I have visions of > > torqued, pretzled lower > > control arms that give me the shivers. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com > > > > ************************************************************** > Digest Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE DIGEST - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the digest. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************** > > >
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#6. Suspension Upgrades cont. - from Ed Tang
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Tang <etangf1@yahoo.com> Subject: Suspension Upgrades cont. I will have to agree with Lowell about 80K junk stock shocks being so harsh that going to Bilsteins doesn't noticeably get much harder. I had about 58k clocked on the factory shocks and struts and replaced them with Bilsteins. No noticeable difference in ride harshness. In my case, I wanted a streetable car that I can take to the track a good 3 to 4 times a year. Any more dedicated I would have gotten coilovers. The essence of my decision was most importantly quality and cost. I trust the quality of Bilstein. Cost is very reasonable considering that even with a CCA discount, replacing the shocks and struts with original parts is comparable in price. The Bilsteins are more track worthy. Comfort wasn't really a part of my decision so I was pleasantly surprised that the ride was the same coming from junk shocks. The Koni adjustables were an option but less muss and fuss is my attitude. Track impressions of the Bilstein/H&R sport is very favorable. It is very compliant and forgiving. Handling is very neutral and body sway is reduced. I believe in reducing sway primarily with shocks and springs, then maybe I'll think about sway bars. What I did notice with the Bilsteins is that braking seems to be a bit more predictable, although one might argue that you will feel more weight transfer on a stock setup. On my last track outing at Grattan Raceway, my instructor was Chris Simon. If anyone knows Chris, he is one hell of a driver. I witnessed him in a club member's '02 keeping up with highly modded E36 M3's. They did pull away from him but not at a rate anyone would expect. Grattan has a lot of off-camber turns and elevation changes, sort of a mini Mid-Ohio. It is a good track to really challenge your suspension. Well, I let Chris run my car during an instructor run and his comments on the suspension was, "Wow, what is your setup?" "Bilstein/H&R." His reply was, "Very neutral, very predictable. I can come into a corner and it's very telegraphic. Hard to get into trouble with this setup." We left pit row eyeing a prepared NSX 2 corners ahead. On cold tires, Chris was behind this guy by the end of the first lap. Did I mention we were on street tires. To compound that, I blew one of my S-02's so we had an S-02 on the front left and an RE-730 on the right wheel and a different sized wheel at that. Talk about uncomfortable braking behavior. We had the NSX for lunch and room for dessert because immediately after we passed the NSX, Chris just literally blew by a stripped down M3 with a roll cage and all the power and handling goodies, not to mention being shod with Hoosiers. After the session this guy comes up to us and goes, "I knew that had to be Chris Simon who blew past me." Well, if anyone is thinking about the Bilsteins and has no concern for ride comfort, they are the one's to get. And the ride isn't that bad. Trim the bump stops and I think you'll be good to go. Cost was a big issue for me and that was satisfied. I've gotten about 5,000 miles on them and I am happy. Ed Tang 95 Cosmos M3 Bilstein/H&R Sport, Dinan camber plates, x-brace (Oh yeah, consider an x-brace, a great upgrade) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Buying a new car, under $10k - from peter@guagenti.com
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:30:10 US/Pacific From: peter@guagenti.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Buying a new car, under $10k > 89-92 535i w/ ~100k miles This is a great car. I borrowed a friend's for about a week and really loved it. His was even a slush box and it was quick. Another car to consider is an E28 5-series (82-88). As a previous owner I would have to say that it is a great car. For under $10k you could get a good condition 535is or, if you shop a little, an M5. Mint M5's sell for about 15k- 18k, but you can find a good condition car for about 10k. These cars are about the size of the E36 3-series, so you're not driving a boat, and they are tanks. I retired my '84 528 at 240k due to body rust -- the drivetrain made it's way into another car that, as far as I know, is still running strong (never smoked). -peterg '95 M3 (miss my E28, if I had the cash I'd have an '88 M5) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using HiSpeed Technologies Webmail. http://www.hispeed.com
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#8. Part # for Euro taillight? - from andy radin
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:40:09 -0800 From: "andy radin" <fourfa@mindspring.com> Subject: Part # for Euro taillight? Hi folks, I need to get the BMW part number for the passenger side clear tail lamp assembly. No luck finding it in the archives or on the web. Unhappily, I need to send it to my body shop so they can order parts to fix my car. Anyone have the ETK handy? andy r. 98 m3/2
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#9. Re: [E36M3] H&R coilovers - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:16:48 -0600 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] H&R coilovers Kit, What size springs do you have on your H&R coil-overs? Are they linear (most COs are)? I drove a GC coil-overed M3 with DO Koni's and 375 # springs up front and 550# springs in the back. Though the ride is certainly very controlled, the car had at most 1" of suspension movement on the street. That's great when you go through a dip on a highway at triple digit speeds (hypothetically, of course'-) since there is no unloading or rebound to speak of. The car just follows the road. However, following road ruts and cracks at under 50mph on public roads gets very old very fast. First 10 minutes it is "I can't believe how planted this car is". Second 10 minutes it is more along the lines of "if it keeps bouncing much longer I will have a headache". The last 10 minutes it is "I better slow down or my bladder will spill all of its contents before I get back". Like everyone else is implying: CO's are great, but not on public roads and not with track-worthy linear springs. YMMV, alex f "Kit Wetzler" <kitwetzler@minds To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> pring.com> cc: Subject: [E36M3] H&R coilovers 11/14/01 02:39 AM Please respond to "Kit Wetzler" Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:29:57 -0800 From: "Kit Wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> Subject: H&R coilovers > Personally, I think C/O's are best for predominant track use with > limited street use. Then you need to ride in a car with coilovers. ;) I've put 30K miles on my H&Rs and they're still awesome. Very comfy, very controlled... much better than H&R sports and konis. (my previous suspension) sure they are a bit harsh over bit bumps, but they soak them up MUCH better than the H&R sports and konis even could dream of. -kit supercharged 97 m3
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#10. H&R coilovers - from kitwetzler@mindspring.com
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:31:32 -0500 From: "kitwetzler@mindspring.com" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> Subject: H&R coilovers { sorry for posting this in public alex, but thought the whole gruppe might appreciate the info... } > What size springs do you have on your H&R coil-overs? Are they linear (most > COs are)? The H&R coilovers use a linear rate 60mm spring up front. The rear is a linear rate barrel shaped spring. Front rate is 340, rear is 380. > Like everyone else is implying: CO's are great, but not on public > roads and not with track-worthy linear springs. I've put 30,000 miles on my coilovers. My car turns 1:48s at Laguna Seca, 2:07 - 2:08 at buttonwillow clockwise #13. I think it's pretty fast, especially considering how porky it is! (3350 at last weigh... and those times were sans supercharger) -kit 97 m3/4 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .