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#1. Re: Undertray - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:16:53 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Undertray on 12/4/01 9:59 PM, "Butterworth, James R" <JRButterworth@directv.com> wrote: > Next up after the rims is the front under tray. Any > hot tips on the under tray? I hear these are a known problem, my current > plan is to pop rivet Al re-inforcements around the bolt holes and > replace the outer plastic pieces (pork chops?). Jim, See below. Neil 96 M3 -------- PART 1 - INTRODUCTION ===================== There are two kinds of E36 M3 coupé owners: those who have already lost the under-radiator shroud, and those who will. (The 4 door has a different arrangement. OK, OK, then there's you Lightweight guys who don't have this problem at all!) Like many other E36 M3 owners I've lost a couple of these. I tried the JTD Design aluminum replacement but didn't like it for various reasons, so I've been running without anything for the last year. I've also had a brand new stock shroud sitting in my garage, but wasn't willing to install it until I could figure out how to keep it from ever coming off again. After repeatedly testing it at 140 mph at MIS last weekend - where by the way a couple of other M3s lost theirs - I can report now having a definitive solution. It'll cost you less than $60 in tools and supplies to implement, plus the new shroud and any other parts you may have to replace if they've already flown off. Here's the deal. The shroud attaches with 2 self-tapping screws on each side, which go into nylon inserts up in the body. The attachment areas on the shroud are none too solid. The sides of the shroud are also loosely supported by tabs in the "porkchops", the triangular air deflectors ahead of each front wheel. Lastly, the front of the shroud tucks up above the lower trailing edge of the large plastic bumper cover. I believe it's this last part that causes the problem. At high speeds (usually well over 100 mph) the combination of airflow though the radiator grille in the bumper and downforce from the aerofoil section of the shroud causes the forward edge of the shroud to be forced back and down from above the lower surface of the bumper cover. As soon as that happens the leading edge of the shroud catches high speed air under the car, and the whole thing is ripped violently from its flimsy mounts. At first I planned to reinforce the mounting area on the shroud with sheet metal so that the screws would hold better, but then I realized that the shroud itself is so flexible that this really wouldn't help. That's when I figured out about the front edge catching the air, and came up with a fairly simple fix. The instructions on how to do this are in Part 2. PART 2 - E36 M3 SHROUD FIX ========================== This is Part 2 of 2. Part 1 was an overview of the problem, and isn't needed to carry out the fix. INTRODUCTION ^^^^^^^^^^^^ These instructions and parts list are for a standard E36 M3 coupé and were correct for my 96 model. As always there may be variations between model years. The M3 four door doesn't have the same shroud system, and coupés with the luxury package may also be different - that I don't know. The 95 M3 Lightweight has a unique air duct arrangement and isn't subject to this problem at all. The basic concept is simple: anchor the forward edge of the shroud to the lower surface of the bumper cover with machine screws. Nutserts - special rivets with an internal thread - must be installed in the shroud for the screws to thread into. These instructions may seem long, but the actual procedure isn't that complicated. However I assumed that most private owners haven't installed nutserts before, and wanted to include all the detail you'd need to get the job done successfully. TOOLS & SUPPLIES ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In addition to a jack, jackstands, and normal garage tools, you're going to need: - An electric drill - A set of drill bits (see text for discussion about sizes) - M5x0.8 nutserts (P/N BTI-225, $0.28 each - cheap, get at least a dozen) - Nutsert installation tool (P/N BTI-800, $43.88, qty 1) - M5x0.8 nutsert thread adapter (P/N BTI-920, $8.90, qty 1) - M5x0.8 machine screws or hex bolts, 16-20mm full threaded shank, plated (hardware store, qty 6. Stainless steel if you can find them) - An assortmant of steel washers (stainless is better) - Felt tip pen (Sharpie or similar) - Bench vise - A mechanic's creeper helps a lot, but isn't absolutely necessary. For those not familiar with them, nutserts are special tubular rivets that are threaded internally. They are used to provide a threaded mounting in materials such as light gauge plastic or sheet metal that are too thin to be drilled and tapped, and are available in a range of inch and metric sizes. The nutsert itself is riveted in place with a special tool. The part numbers and prices above are from Reid Tool Supply Company in Muskegon, MI, <www.reidtool.com> or phone 800-253-0421. If your plastic shroud has already torn off, you may also need any or all of the following BMW parts: Shroud 51 72 2 250 643 Baffle 17 11 2 227 690 (fits inside shroud) Left porkchop 51 71 2 250 641 Right porkchop 51 71 2 250 642 Left wheelarch liner 51 71 1 977 047 (see text) Right wheelarch liner 51 71 1 977 048 (see text) A good discount mail order source for these is The BMW Store in Cincinnati, OH, phone 513-271-8700 (ask for James Dean in the Parts Department). The porkchops are often damaged in everyday driving scrapes, and almost always when the shroud blows off. Because part of the porkchop attachment is to the wheelarch liners, these are often broken too and have to be replaced in order for the porkchops to be remounted securely. INSTALLATION ^^^^^^^^^^^^ The following instructions assume that you still have the stock shroud and porkchops in place. If yours have already torn off, you'll first need to mount a new central shroud, but can leave the porkchops off until the end. Jack up both sides of the front of the car quite high, support securely with jackstands and slide underneath. (You can leave the wheels in place.) Look at the shroud and where its front edge tucks up above the plastic bumper cover. With your felt tip pen mark a spot on the bumper cover 1/4" inboard from from the lip that's moulded along the rear edge (i.e. about 3/4" from the edge itself ) and in the centre of the car. Now mark two more at either side, two or three inches in from each end of the shroud. Finally mark a further two spots about midway between the centre and side spots. You now have a total of five points marked at roughly equal intervals about 3/4" in from the trailing lower edge of the bumper cover. Using an electric drill and a 1/8" bit, drill pilot holes at each mark in the bumper cover and on up through the hidden forward part of the shroud. Your drill bit should point somewhat backward (maybe a 15 degree angle or so) in order to hit the shroud's curved forward portion more or less straight on. Using an 8mm nutdriver or socket, remove the screws holding the left and right porkchops, and set these parts aside. (If your porkchops have plastic rivets in the front holes, use needle nose pliers to grasp and pull out the central pin, then pull out the rivet body itself.) With an 8mm socket on a 6+ inch extension, undo the 4 screws holding the shroud. Pull the shroud itself down and back to remove it from the car. Drill out the 5 pilot holes in the bumper cover only - NOT the shroud - to 6.5mm or 1/4". The next step is to install nutserts in the shroud. I strongly recommend that you practice a couple of times on a piece of scrap plastic of similar thickness. A damaged shroud or porkchop that you're going to replace anyway would be ideal. It's important to drill the nutsert holes to just the right size. The specified size is 7.6mm, but in a soft material like plastic a slightly tighter fit works well. I used 7mm, for which the closest inch size would be 9/32" (= 7.14mm). So drill a couple of holes of that size in your scrap material. The nutsert should be a firm push fit in the hole. Enlarge the holes a bit if necessary, but don't allow the fit to be sloppy. You'll also need to use a washer over the nutsert on its back side to prevent it from pulling through the soft plastic. Since you're not going to find a washer with the right 7.6mm hole size, you'll have to choose the next smaller size from your washer assortment and drill it out. I used a 7.5mm drill and wiggled it slightly to enlarge the hole a fraction beyond that. The nearest inch size would be 19/64" (= 7.54mm), or perhaps letter size N (0.302" = 7.67mm). Clamp the washer in your vise and drill the hole to size. Don't make the hole any larger than it needs to be for a tight push fit on the nutsert. Push a nutsert into your scrap plastic, and place a drilled washer on to its back side. Mount the M5 thread adapter into the installation tool, and thread it into the nutsert. With one hand hold the washer firmly down against the back side of the plastic, and with the other squeeze the installation tool to expand the nutsert. You may need to use two hands on the tool to finish the crimp. (Yes, that would be for a total of three hands...) If the nutsert is firmly crimped in place with no looseness or wiggle, then good job! However if the nutsert expanded between the washer and the plastic, then you didn't have the washer pressed down enough. If the nutsert expanded into the washer's bore rather than behind it, then you drilled the washer out too big. Correct if necessary, and install another trial nutsert. Assuming it's good, you're now ready to do it for real. Drill out your 5 pilot holes in the shroud to the correct size (7mm or 9/32"), and drill out 5 more washers (7.5mm or 19/64" or letter size N). Crimp nutserts with backing washers into each of the 5 holes in the shroud with the same technique you practiced. Mount the shroud back into the car using its 4 original screws. Place washers on to your 5mm machine screws (I used button head stainless steel screws that I had lying around) and screw them through the 1/4" holes you made in the bumper cover and into the nutserts you've just installed in the shroud. Tighten firmly but not too much. There will be some angular misalignment as you tighten the screws, but the plastic parts are flexible enough to accommodate that. Tug on the shroud - it should feel very firmly attached indeed. Remount the porkchops, making sure their tabs engage the sides of the shroud. If their mounts in the wheelarch liners are damaged, and they probably are, replace the liners. On my car I've also reinforced the liner mounts using 20 gauge aluminum sheet (hardware store) cut to size and riveted to the liners, and more 5mm nutserts and machine screws replacing the stock Tinnerman nuts and sheet metal screws. I also installed nutserts into the bumper cover to replace the plastic rivets used there to mount the forward edge of the porkchop. These are refinements you may not need or want to do. But once you get the hang of using nutserts, you just keep thinking of new places to use them. I can supply more info about this on request. Please feel free to send me any corrections or suggestions. Neil 96 M3
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#2. Re: Wheel strength - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:28:43 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Wheel strength on 12/4/01 9:59 PM, "Butterworth, James R" <JRButterworth@directv.com> wrote: > Hi guys I am new to the list thanks for letting me aboard. I recently > purchased a 95 M3 (73k diamond schwartz/black) that has the Style 22 > stock wheels (10 spoke) which the PO had chromed. When I went for new > tires I discovered that 2 were cracked at the outer rim both of which > looked like they had hit pot holes/etc. My questions are: do these > wheels have a history of this? BMW's cast wheels aren't terribly strong. Lots of people bend them, and a few even break. > I think the chrome my be partly to blame, comments? Could be. Chromed metal parts need to be oven-baked after plating to avoid hydrogen embrittlement. If that wasn't done, or wasn't done properly, they could have more tendency to crack. > Would you replace with stock or some stronger aftermarket rim? Any thoughts > will be appreciated. At this point you're going to need to get 4 wheels to avoid a mismatch. I'd consider going with aftermarket, since the stronger BMW forged wheels (style 24) are brutally expensive at around $650 list each. You can get forged SSRs for half that at Tire Rack, or of course there are many replacement cast wheels. Another option would be used stock wheels. > I have already replaced the radiator (upper hose neck failed > catastrophically) Yep. Common occurrence. > and replaced the rear shock mounts with E46 mounts and > Z3 re-inforcements. Good move. > Next up after the rims is the front under tray. Any hot tips on the under > tray? I hear these are a known problem, my current plan is to pop rivet Al > re-inforcements around the bolt holes and replace the outer plastic pieces > (pork chops?). I've sent you detailed how-to instructions in a separate message. Neil 96 M3
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Re: Shark - from Mel Silva
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:02:18 -0600 From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Shark Oh yeah! I am all over this. Since I have only had my CAI for about two weeks now, I still get goose bumps when I can hear that roar reflecting off whichever slow pickup or gargantuan SUV I'm getting around so I can see the damn road. I really hate those stupid things (SUV's), but I love my Conforti CAI, now I need to get shark infested! Mel BTW, put my clear corners on tonight, less than 5 minute job. Do you folks that run clear corners change the bulbs to amber bulbs like I did, or am I just really anal? (let's be nice!) > a bit too. It also makes a glorious noise above 4K rpm at WOT, while > remaining discreet otherwise. I whole-heartedly agree! There's nothing quite like the look you get from passing someone with that CAI at full roar at WOT :-) Cheers, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 - Sharked & Intaked, among other things 1993 325is #44 KP - Sharked, Intaked, Cammed, etcetcetc :-) ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. *************************************************************
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#4. AC Hydraulic Jack - Review - from Wayne Miller
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:23:34 -0500 From: "Wayne Miller" <m3@waynemiller.com> Subject: AC Hydraulic Jack - Review For those who are interested in the AC jack group purchase, I bought one from Steve D. a few months ago and I am very happy with it. Not much of a review I know but what else can I say? -Wayne
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: Shark - from Peter Guagenti
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:46:25 -0800 From: Peter Guagenti <peter@guagenti.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Shark on 12/4/01 8:09 PM, Mel Silva at melsilva@mindspring.com wrote: > Oh yeah! I am all over this. Since I have only had my CAI for about two > weeks now, I still get goose bumps when I can hear that roar reflecting off > whichever slow pickup or gargantuan SUV I'm getting around so I can see the > damn road. You have to get cams, then the roar picks up a louder and more sinister note. ;-) -peterg (starting to actually enjoy my 30+ mile commute home up I-680 at night)
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Re: Corner Balancing/Coil Over Post Install - from Brian Terril
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:59:17 -0800 From: "Brian Terril" <bterril@twistedparity.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Corner Balancing/Coil Over Post Install > Find a level surface and measure from wheel center > to top of the wheel arch. The rear weel arch is slung lower than the front wheel arch. You'd get some pretty serious front rake if you did this, and your weight would go too far to the front. BDT
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Extended warranties again - actual experiences - from D L Seeley
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:22:43 -0800 From: D L Seeley <dlseeley@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended warranties again - actual experiences Josh, I've gotten my money's worth out of the $2k WG Diamond Plan since May '99. They paid for: - Timing chain tensioner $900 - Head gasket $1100 - Brake light assembly $300 SA said 90 min. was the quickest he'd ever gotten an approval. - Radiator & t'stat $900 Two disappointments: - Wouldn't pay for preemptive water pump change (did it myself) - Won't pay for a new or reman tranny - just a rebuild at aamco (!) It runs out in 8k miles or 5 months. It's been nice to take the car to a dealer (Allison treats me very well) for the big stuff. BTW, WG also covers the dealer loaner/rental. Donna ------- 88 M3, "Guido," #41 JP 95 M3A, super-commuter > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:33:11 -0800 (PST) > From: Josh Criswold <g_force_alt@yahoo.com> > Subject: Extended warranties again - actual experiences > > > Who has had good/bad experiences with their extended > warranty? what particularly was good/bad? how is the > claims processing? who did you buy the warranty from? > > > Thanks > Josh G > > '98 M3 Cosmos > '72 2002tii Polaris >
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#8. Re: [E36M3] bump stops on bilsteins - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 04:52:26 EST From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] bump stops on bilsteins Dan, My favorite subject! Bilstein bumpstops!! ;-) Four words of advice: Get rid of them!! My slightly lowered M3 constantly bounced off of the front bumpstops. The ride about drove me crazy. It was like riding a pogo stick. I was about to junk the Bilsteins. After I removed the front internal bumpstops, the ride is still extremely firm (harsh even) but livable for me. I don't have the "bouncy" ride. But yes, to remove the front bumpstops is not easy. Dang it! I intended to do a tech write up on it! I even took pictures. I thought I had scared everybody away from Bilstein by now. :-) You have to unscrew the shaft from the bottom of the strut. Remember the front Bilsteins are upside down monotube shocks. You should have a 17 mm nut and a slotted screw in the bottom of the strut. I recommend buying a screwdriver bit for your rachet. It takes a lot of effort to screw the shaft out of the housing, especially if it has seen some weather. First back the 17 mm nut off until it is flush with the end of the screw. Don't remove the nut. It will help hold your screwdriver bit in place. Now the hard part. If you have a vise - great. Clamp the strut in the vise. Or else have a friend hold the strut steady for you as you bear down as hard as you can with your screwdriver/rachet and turn the shaft. Remember to turn it CLOCKWISE. You are screwing it into the housing. Hopefully it breaks loose and you can turn the slotted shaft without damaging the threads. You can try some WD-40 etc. to loosen it up. But what finally worked for me was to put the screwdriver bit on an air wrench and zapping it off. If you can put enough weight on the rachet, I think you can probably get it off. Good luck. Eventually you will have to remove the nut entirely. Just carefully screw the shaft all the way into the housing. Once you have this accomplished, it is simple. Just pull the top out. Don't worry about anything exploding in your face. The troublemaking bumpstop will be obvious. It is 2 7/8 inches long. I recommend just taking it off and throwing it away. Put the strut back together without any bumpstop. I promise you, any impact hard enough to fully compress a Bilstein strut will destroy the car. Bumpstops with Bilsteins are redundant. If you want to keep part of the bumpstop, use a hacksaw and cut 1 inch off. Use the 1 inch part and throw the other 1 7/8 inch away. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 Dallas, Texas
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Retainer "float" - was cam timing - from RogRacer@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 08:39:47 EST From: RogRacer@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Retainer "float" - was cam timing Scott, No one is doubting your experience. The question I'm trying to get resolution on is if what you experienced can happen without a mechanical overrev. Are you saying you experienced your retainer failure without experiencing an overrev? If not, how many miles where on your motor? Do you have a chip that increased the rev limit? Do you often run at high rpms? How was your idle behavior when you had your problem? Just trying to get to bottom of this issue...I thought Brett Anderson made the definitive judgement on this a few years ago, but new information is always of interest. On a related topic...do we have any high mileage S50s out there with the early retainers? Does anyone know if 92-95 M50s used the same retainers/keepers? Regards, Roger RogRacer@aol.com '95 M3
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#10. Front spoiler outer plastic pieces - from morris.michael@adlittle.com
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:51:46 -0500 From: morris.michael@adlittle.com Subject: Front spoiler outer plastic pieces Hello List, I am following up on Jim's question (below) with one of my own. I gave the car too much gas coming out of turn one near my neighborhood in the rain. : ) I managed to drift into a curb, scratch up the corner of my front spoiler a bit, shear the black outer under plastic piece off (pork chop thing), as well as destroy some of the mounting holes. I did not think anything of it at the time, but does anybody know of any bad consequences of driving without one of these black pork chop looking plastic pieces? Too much water into the engine bay on a rainy day? Paranoid, Mike Morris ---------------------- From: "Butterworth, James R" <JRButterworth@directv.com> ......Next up after the rims is the front under tray. Any hot tips on the under tray? I hear these are a known problem, my current plan is to pop rivet Al re-inforcements around the bolt holes and replace the outer plastic pieces (pork chops?). TIA- Jim **** This is intended for the addressee only and may contain confidential business information. It may not be copied without our permission. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and delete the material from any computer.****
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#11. Re:[E36M3] Flex Disc (Guido) (was '95 Cam timing) - from Robert Liu
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 05:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Liu <bob_a_liu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re:[E36M3] Flex Disc (Guido) (was '95 Cam timing) I forwarded my dyno chart to the distributor I bought the Euro HFM kit from, who then forwarded it to Turner and JimC. JimC suggested that the oscillations of the dyno chart at high rpms may be due to a worn guido (flex-disc). I had noticed some cracks starting to form on the guido, so I am going to try replacing that first. Any suggestions on replacing the disc? The Bentley manual procedure looks more involved than it really should be. Thanks, Bob ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Robert Liu bob_a_liu@yahoo.com ICQ# 22765210 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com
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#12. Re: [E36M3] Retainer "float" - was cam timing - from Robert Liu
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 05:53:59 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Liu <bob_a_liu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Retainer "float" - was cam timing --- RogRacer@aol.com wrote: <snip> > always of interest. On a related topic...do we > have any high mileage S50s out there with the early > retainers? Does anyone know if 92-95 M50s used the > same retainers/keepers? My 95 has 156k miles on it, with early retainers. Idle seems to be just fine. I guess I won't know about the retainers until I open up the top end. Bob ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Robert Liu bob_a_liu@yahoo.com ICQ# 22765210 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com