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#1. Re: [E36M3] Powerflex Bushing Install & Report - The Good and the - from Neil Maller
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:39:04 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Powerflex Bushing Install & Report - The Good and the Not So Good on 12/17/01 1:48 PM, Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > Also, we used the BMW tool to release the lower control arm from the steering > knuckle (or whatever you call it). That is one cool tool! No damaging the > ball joint boots or sever whacking with a pickle fork. For those of you who > have done front suspension work, you know that you can't whack on the ball > joint threaded part because the steering knuckle is in the way. That's not how you do it. If you hammer the threaded portion you risk simply mushrooming the bolt. What you do is hammer on the side of the *knuckle* where the ball joint bolt's taper seats, all the while applying pressure to separate the ball joint from the knuckle. This flexes the seat area in the knuckle and unsticks the ball joint taper. I want to make this point because it's an easy an effective way to separate ball joints without damaging them and without using a special tool. Steve D'G posted how to do this a long time ago, and I've used it with success several times. In fact as recently as a couple of weeks ago on a friend's car. Neil 96 M3
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#2. Re: Brake warning light - from Neil Maller
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:51:11 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Brake warning light on 12/17/01 1:48 PM, S Lafredo <slafredo@yahoo.com> wrote: > On the M3 I took the brake sensors out of the pads and tie wrapped them > to the strut tubs. Here's a little tip for you track junkies. You already know that if you leave the sensors in place while on the track, the heat from braking makes the sensor pill disintegrate over time. Many people do something similar to what Stephen describes above. However if you order replacement rubber plugs for the caliper guide pin boots you get not the expected two, but instead three plugs in the baggie. The extra is apparently for some other application, and has a little clip attached to its closed end. Use this plug with clip in the upper guide bolt boot and you have a perfect place to secure the brake wear sensor while out on the track, and when you put your street pads back on you can plug back in to the pad and restore the sensor function. Neil 96 M3
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#3. BFG K/D Tires For sale price reduced! - from Jeff Lin
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:48:43 -0800 From: "Jeff Lin" <jeffreylin@worldnet.att.net> Subject: BFG K/D Tires For sale price reduced! FS: BFG G-Force K/D tires (Great Dry Street Tires) (2) 225/45/17 (2) 245/40/17 Tires have less than 100 miles on them. Price new at Tire rack is $900 These tires are killer dry weather tires. Will deliver in Orange County/LA Area. Asking $600, buyer pays shipping. Price reduced from $650. contact jeffreylin@att.net
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#4. Re: bump stops on bilsteins - One More Time - from Tom Tice
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:14:41 -0500 From: "Tom Tice" <tetice@triad.rr.com> Subject: Re: bump stops on bilsteins - One More Time Just to follow up Jeremy's original post, note some additional contacts that I had with Bilstein following Jeremy's but in the same time frame. I have included them here below for the benefit of anyone who wasn't tuned in to the list at that time. I left Jeremy's account intact below in case anyone wants to capture one complete account of the info from Bilstein. Sorry for the length of this to anyone who is thoroughly tired of the Bilstein thread. There certainly seems to be no consensus. One final thought on the differences in ride quality among those who have experienced Bilsteins. Tires can make a huge difference in ride quality. With my ultra stiff sidewall track tires, the car is unbearably harsh on the road. With my full tread, softer sidewall RE730s, it is quite acceptable. Perhaps those of you with the ultra performance street (S02s,S03, Pilots) tires are much closer to my track tires. I couldn't live with that either - but the handling on the track is great - I wouldn't want it any softer! Tom Tice '98 M3/4 - very happy with Bilsteins and H&R Sports '99 540/6 - ultra smooth road car (easy to be happy with the Bilsteins as I can switch to this car when I grow tired of them) ***=> First Message Not so fast on that warrantee issue. Jeremy was kind enough to share with me the number of the guy at Bilstein that he talked to regarding the trimming of the bumpstops. After pushing him a bit further on this issue he is doing some serious backpedaling (my perception). He says now that H&R recommends the trimming of the bumpstops (implying that it is not Bilstein's recommendation). When specifically asked about the warrantee, he first indicated that this would have no effect but that the warrantee doesn't cover any racing or "motorsport related" use. He also indicated that trimming the bumpstop will increase the chances of the shock being damaged in some form or fashion and the warrantee doesn't cover damage (i.e. due to a pothole, rough ride off the track, etc.). Finally, he admitted that any warrantee decision would not be up to him anyway and that I should contact one of their sales representatives. I tried both east and west coast sales guys today but never got hold of either one. So unless one of these guys is willing to put something in writing, Bilstein certainly had the ability to weasel out of any warrantee claim. I'll let the group know if I find out anything different. As for riding on the untrimmed bumpstops, while I haven't opened mine up yet those that I have experience with on other Bilsteins consist of a compressible foam. So riding on the initial portion of the bumpstop is not like having a solid suspension, only one with a different (i.e. stiffer) spring rate. Obviously if you compress the bumpstop far enough it will reach a point where it will compress no further but that should be (my guess) and inch or better in travel. If you have the H&R race springs you may well have the suspension effectively bottomed out but I wouldn't really know until I see how the bumpstops are actually constructed. ***=> Second and Follow up post Well last night I actually opened up my Bilsteins and I agree with John's description below of the Bumpstops - medium soft rubber which is quite a bit firmer than the foam types I have seen before. However their diameter is quite a bit smaller as well would have an effect on their compressibility. They are just a hair under 3 inches long and the upper portion is somewhat hollow which would also increase its initial compressibility. As for the warrantee. I spoke to the Bilstein East Coast sales guy today. I trust that he would give me the straight scoop as I have personally worked with him in the past (to put on joint BMW club/Korman open house autocross when he worked for Ray Korman). By the way he is a BMW enthusiast and also drives a E36 M3. In any event, his view is that trimming the bumpstops by 20 or 25 mm would have no effect on the warrantee - it would be judged like any other warrantee claim. You are really only removing about 1/3 of the bumpstop and the remaining bumpstop would adequately protect the shock from bottoming out type damage. Furthermore, his view was that trim or no trim, the effect on the ride quality with H&R sports would not be perceptible as it would only behave like an incrementally increased spring rate. He reminded me that the M3 represents about 900 lbs at each corner and the force of 900 lbs would have no problem compressing the rubber bump stop. My opinion is that I suspect this is true with respect to small undulations in the road or bumps like those associated with expansion joints. I suspect that one would notice a difference on jarring bumps such as a good sized pothole and that a rim bending type of pothole would be just as rough for either case as it fully compresses the bumpstop. The "ride quality" will still primarily depend on the valving of the struts and the spring rates. Since my car is on jackstands and the struts are lying on my bench, I see no harm in removing 1/3 of the bumpstop in case it actually helps. If they were already on my car, I'd seriously consider if it was worth the effort. Tom Tice '98 M3/4 '99 540/6 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeremy Lucas [mailto:jlucas@columbus.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:19 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: bump stops on bilsteins > > > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:19:36 -0500 > From: "Jeremy Lucas" <jlucas@columbus.rr.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: bump stops on bilsteins > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> > > A data point, I asked Turner Motor Sports whether they would trim the > bump > > stops before shipping the units, and I was asked why. When I > responded that > > there was quite a bit of reputation associated with the Bilsteins > needing > > the bump stops trimmed. It was suggested that the email lists were > rumor > > mills. > > Stan, Talk to Lou at the Bilstein San Diego, CA office. (800) 537-1085. > I had several conversation with him about this and he also conferred > with other people with Bilstein back in June. Attached below is the > information that I got from him that I sent to the list and with follow > ups to another lister. I don't think it a matter of having a "problem" > if they are not trimmed, it's just that your ride could be a little > smoother trimmed. > ____________ > > Original Post: > After all the discussion & confusion about trimming the bump stops on > the > front shocks a week or so ago, I made several phone calls to both > Bilstein > and H&R. I have a 95 M3 with Bilsteins and H&R 29910 springs that did > not > lower evenly when putting in the springs -- the front only went down > about > 10mm whereas the rear went down at least 20mm -- my biggest indication > that > the front might be on the bump stops. Once I got through playing > voicemail > tag with the right people, here's what I found out: > > 1) Bilstein says to cut 25 mm off their front bump stops. So I asked if > I > do this modification myself, does this void the warranty? They said no, > only if you open up the actual shock portion, not just disassemble it. > Just > be careful not to strip the allen head in the bottom when disassembling, > after taking off the 17mm nut on the bottom; a little heat helps with > the > allen head. So I ask why do they say to trim the bump stops? After > much > discussion and conferring with others in Bilstein the answer comes back > "because even with stock springs & ride height the shocks are very close > to > the bump stops and also that H&R recommends it". Bilstein also > cryptically > noted that trimming the bump stops doesn't always seems to cure the > uneven > lowering based on customer reports. On a side note I asked him about > revalving, and I was surprised it that the cost was only in the $50 > range > per shock. > > 2) On to H&R, after the voicemail tag.... Answer: trim the bump stops > 20mm > for the 29910 springs. I ask why didn't something come with my springs > to > say that. He says it should have been in the box with the springs, and > that > trimming should cure the uneven lowering effect that I have right now. > > Hope this helps clear things up, > ____________ > > 1st Follow-up: > According to them, they are fine with stock springs. It's just when you > lower the car that you have a problem. I also asked them about the fact > that the struts seem to be a hack job from the regular E36 and they guy > didn't know anything about the original origin since that was quite a > while > ago. > ____________ > > > 2nd Follow-up: > I talked to Lou some more today. Especially in a sport application like > the > M3 the bump stops are about 15-20mm from the normal ride height, which > he > said is common in a lot of their OEM applications too. You have to > remember > that touching the bump stops doesn't mean your out of travel, your just > starting to add a resistive force to the motion of the shock (kind of > like > having stiffer springs). > ____________ > > Hope that puts to rest the rumor mill. BTW, it is true that just > because you see it on a list (even one as good as this) that doesn't > make it true, and that you should always follow up and do your own > checking. > > Jeremy > 95 M3 still waiting to be trimmed at the next time I need to do some > front suspension work >
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#5. Speeding Tickets - from R Ehrlich 98 M3
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:34:59 -0500 From: "R Ehrlich 98 M3" <rehrlich98m3@mindspring.com> Subject: Speeding Tickets There is a simple reason the Officer wrote "Radar Detector" on the ticket. It means that the State will be less likely to offer a plea.=20 =20 Why? You ask. =20 Easy, having a radar detector means you like to speed and that you have pre-meditated the fact that you will break the law. Please make no mistake, but speeding is breaking the law and exceeding the posted = speed by a certain amount can get you arrested. Now, the Officer can testify in court that you had a radar detector as he noted it on the scene and he will not be as willing to allow you take a plea. =20 Who are you going to let off easy... The guy who got caught speeding = but had a "legitimate reason" for it. Or the guy who got caught speeding with a radar detector that shows that it was not an "accidental violation". =20 Yes, the first guy might be a haditual speeder, too. But there is no tangible evidence (the radar detector) that he speeds all the time. =20 R Ehrlich 98 Alpine White M3
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#6. Bilsteins Clarified [a little] - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:22:26 EST From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Bilsteins Clarified [a little] neil.maller@gte.net writes: > As I recall, some months ago Lowell Seaton posted a detailed description of > both why and how to trim the Bilstein bump stops. I'd say it's about the > definitive statement on the subject. Presumably it can be found in the > archives. You know I can't avoid a discussion about Bilsteins. :-) I worked on my Bilsteins last summer. I even took pictures. I meant to post them and a write-up. I'm off work next week plus I have a new photo editor. I'll try to put together a tech procedure with photos next week. But in the interim maybe I can clarify what I think is happening with the Bilsteins. I have said previously that you are riding on the front strut bumpstops, especially if you lower your M3 at all. However, I don't want you to think that you get a [crash] [bam] [crash!] [smash] [BAM] .... ride. No. You are not slamming down onto some hard steel bumpstop. Instead you get more of a [boing] [boing] [boing] .... pogo stick like ride. The front bumpstops are about 3 inches long and made out of a stiff foam rubber. My theory is as the suspension/springs compress, the bumpstops compress and increases the spring rate a significant amount. This is not the problem. Rebound is. On recoil, this increased spring rate causes the suspension to rebound rapidly UNTIL you are off the bumpstops. Then due to the very stiff Bilstein shocks, the suspension almost stops dead. Commonly used M3 springs are not stout enough to overpower the Bilsteins. You actually get a much more abrupt "bumpstop" on the upstroke than you do on the downstroke. You don't notice this trait when you first put the Bilsteins on. You notice the increased movement control and don't recognize this bumpstop effect. But take a 5 hour drive on the Interstate and it will get very tedious very fast. The ride is very choppy, very bouncy. On short rides my might ignore it. It dawned on me why some people don't complain about the bumpstops yet they drive on horrible pot holed roads. This bouncy bumpstop is worse on smooth roads. The rougher the road or more aggressive you drive, the less you notice the bumpstop. I didn't mind the ride too much when I was just making short trips in town on the bad roads we have around Dallas. But last year I drove 1,500 miles in 4.5 days on the Interstate and it just about drove me crazy. The actual steps to shortening/removing the bumpstop is pretty straight forward. Amassing the tools and using a technique that works is the only tricky part. The Bilstein is a monotube design. This means the Bilstein strut is "upside down". Instead of unscrewing the top, you unscrew it from the bottom. First loosen the bottom nut. Then screw the steel shaft into the strut housing. Finding a tool to turn the shaft is difficult. I ended up using my air impact wrench. Once you screw the shaft into the housing, just pull it part and cut as much of the bumpstop off as you want with a hacksaw. Reassemble and enjoy your "non bouncy" ride. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 Dallas, Texas
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Bilsteins Clarified [a little] - from Jeremy Lucas
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:44:16 -0500 From: "Jeremy Lucas" <jlucas@columbus.rr.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Bilsteins Clarified [a little] I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Sidewall stiffness can exaggerate any suspension effect because a stiffer tire can remove a portion of overall compliance of the system (tire + bushings + springs + shocks...). Jeremy Lucas 95 M3 ----- Original Message ----- From: <LoweSeaton@aol.com> > You actually get a much more abrupt "bumpstop" on the upstroke than you do on > the downstroke. You don't notice this trait when you first put the Bilsteins
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Speeding Tickets - from Matt Henson
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:15:27 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Speeding Tickets You're joking right? You think a RADAR detector is proof that you speed? Good enough to hold up in a court of law? I think not. It's not even evidance. The fact is that everyone - 99.99% of the people who drive in the USA - speeds. Maybe the police are taking data to correlate RADAR detectors with habitual speeding or with the effectiveness of speed-detection methods (trailing vs RADAR vs LIDAR, etc..). May be they do plan to use it against the guy in court. But if they don't have some other proof then that alone isn't enough for a legal prosecution. -Matt, who loves living in TX because he can safely drive fast all the time without worrying about tickets or accidents. --- R Ehrlich 98 M3 <rehrlich98m3@mindspring.com> wrote: > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:34:59 -0500 > From: "R Ehrlich 98 M3" > <rehrlich98m3@mindspring.com> > Subject: Speeding Tickets > > > There is a simple reason the Officer wrote "Radar > Detector" on the > ticket. It means that the State will be less likely > to offer a plea.=20 > =20 > Why? You ask. > =20 > Easy, having a radar detector means you like to > speed and that you have > pre-meditated the fact that you will break the law. > Please make no > mistake, but speeding is breaking the law and > exceeding the posted = > speed > by a certain amount can get you arrested. Now, the > Officer can testify > in court that you had a radar detector as he noted > it on the scene and > he will not be as willing to allow you take a plea. > =20 > Who are you going to let off easy... The guy who got > caught speeding = > but > had a "legitimate reason" for it. Or the guy who got > caught speeding > with a radar detector that shows that it was not an > "accidental > violation". > =20 > Yes, the first guy might be a haditual speeder, too. > But there is no > tangible evidence (the radar detector) that he > speeds all the time. > =20 > R Ehrlich > 98 Alpine White M3 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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#9. Re: Stuck Throttle - Broken Gas Pedal - from shane.a.kleinpeter@accenture.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:01:07 -0500 From: shane.a.kleinpeter@accenture.com Subject: Re: Stuck Throttle - Broken Gas Pedal >The bad part is that it looks like this hinge is part of the carpet >meaning I don't know how to replace it. I'll have to look over the ETK >to see what's replaceable and how best to deal with it. Any advice >appreciated. >The car is a '95, BTW, so this might be something to add to the >pre-track/autocross checklist on the older cars. This could have been a >real bummer on the track. Ron, In building my E36 325i race car, I had to remove the carpet, and in order to do so had to remove the gas pedal. All that is required is to remove the circlip that attaches the pedal to the linkage, then a REALLY hard tug up (watch your head, and wear gloves so you don't bust a knuckle). It will just pull out. Installation, as they say, is the reverse of removal. HTH, Shane Kleinpeter This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
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#10. Eibach Retailer?? - from Chris Salter
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:18:03 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Salter <errsomeone@yahoo.com> Subject: Eibach Retailer?? All, So, who has the best prices on Eibach springs for a 98 M3? Thanks - Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com