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#1. Re: Drag - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:36:03 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Drag I wrote: >> And for comparison, the CD of the Lexus LS430 is 0.26, or with the optional >> Adaptive Variable Air Suspension just 0.25. on 1/8/02 9:55 AM, "kit wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> wrote: > just remember that total drag = coefficient of drag times frontal area... a > ferrari with 12 square feet of frontal area and a drag coefficient of .35 is > slipperier than a lexus with 50 square feet and a .25 coefficient. > (numbers plucked handily out of orifices) Yes indeed. But that doesn't invalidate the truly impressive aerodynamic job that Lexus has done on the LS 430, a car whose primary sales attributes are surely not aerodynamics. Having said which, it's easier to get a low Cd on a longer car like the LS 430 than on shorter one. As illustration the smaller Lexus GS 430 and IS 300 achieve "only" 0.29, with the ES 300 at 0.28. Neil 96 M3
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#2. Suspension Alternatives - from Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:13:45 -0600 From: "Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR" <Christopher.Darling@scott.af.mil> Subject: Suspension Alternatives At the risk of being shot and killed by the group for resurrecting an old thread, I'm compelled to ask, "Why are the Dinan suspension solutions so expensive?" Check it out: TC Kline Streetline: Shocks/struts, springs $792 Dinan Stage I: Shocks/struts, springs $1076 This is the baseline--add swaybars to each and you pay an extra $370 or so. A. Is the "matched" Dinan package REALLY worth the premium? B. My archive search showed folks like both Streetline and Dinan. Are these opinions still universally held? C. If I go with TC Kline, I'll need to add swaybars. What's the consensus--Racing Dynamics? Eibach? Or should I just stay with my stock bars? Thanks, Cod Major Chris Darling HQ AMC/CEXR DSN 779-0698, Comm (618) 229-0698
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives - from Chester Wong
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:24:06 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives From my research, there's nothing different. Dinan "tuned" suspension setups are simply the turning of the adjuster of the Koni shocks to a certain setting Dinan has choosen. Maybe they paint the inserts nice a purty too. For swaybars, I think Dinan bars are between stock and Eibachs in terms of diameter. I have Eibachs with what can be considered the TCKline Streetline setup and it's perfectly fine. ...though I wonder how it would be with stock sways.... And lastly, the stage III Dinan suspension adds camber plates. Well, unless you're a complete track junkie and will be aligning your car for sever negative camber, camber plates are not worth it, IMO. Some companies give the illusion that you can dial in more negative camber for an event and then dial it back for street use. Well, I've seen the TMS camber plates and there's no way you're adjusting the camber on the fly. If you want to dial in a bit more negative camber (swapping hats left to right add a lot of negative camber), try the '95M3 bearing plates... Chester --- Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR <Christopher.Darling@scott.af.mil> wrote: > Check it out: > > TC Kline Streetline: Shocks/struts, springs $792 > Dinan Stage I: Shocks/struts, springs $1076 > > This is the baseline--add swaybars to each and you pay an extra $370 or > so. > > A. Is the "matched" Dinan package REALLY worth the premium? > B. My archive search showed folks like both Streetline and Dinan. Are > these opinions still universally held? > C. If I go with TC Kline, I'll need to add swaybars. What's the > consensus--Racing Dynamics? Eibach? Or should I just stay with my > stock bars? ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives - from Mark Radelow
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:29:34 +0000 From: "Mark Radelow" <radelow@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives Well you do get to call your car "Dinan-Equipped". It's crap...Dinan is just like a lot of the other high end tuners out there. They feel their name justifies the prices they charge. I remember hearing that the first Dinan exhaust for the M3 was just a hollowed out 95 M3 exhaust... Typical. Mark From: "Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR" <Christopher.Darling@scott.af.mil> Reply-To: "Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR" <Christopher.Darling@scott.af.mil> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Subject: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:15:16 -0600 Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:13:45 -0600 From: "Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR" <Christopher.Darling@scott.af.mil> Subject: Suspension Alternatives At the risk of being shot and killed by the group for resurrecting an old thread, I'm compelled to ask, "Why are the Dinan suspension solutions so expensive?" Check it out: TC Kline Streetline: Shocks/struts, springs $792 Dinan Stage I: Shocks/struts, springs $1076 This is the baseline--add swaybars to each and you pay an extra $370 or so. A. Is the "matched" Dinan package REALLY worth the premium? B. My archive search showed folks like both Streetline and Dinan. Are these opinions still universally held? C. If I go with TC Kline, I'll need to add swaybars. What's the consensus--Racing Dynamics? Eibach? Or should I just stay with my stock bars? Thanks, Cod Major Chris Darling HQ AMC/CEXR DSN 779-0698, Comm (618) 229-0698 ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. ************************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives - from peter@guagenti.com
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:40:25 US/Pacific From: peter@guagenti.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives >From my research, there's nothing different. Actually the key difference is a business one -- warranty. Dinan offers an OEM- level warranty on their work. And if you bring your car into a dealer with a blown suspension part, they'll honor your warranty if you're runnign Dinan, but might not if you're running brand X. Other than that, they're really just re-sellign other people parts. > For > swaybars, I think Dinan bars are between stock and Eibachs in terms of > diameter. I have Eibachs with what can be considered the TCKline Streetline > setup and it's perfectly fine. This is one place where, in my opinion, Dinan shines. Havign run both the Eibach and the Dinan set-up, I have to say the Dinan set-up is a lot better. The actual bar diameters are 22mm f/r, which is larger in the rear but actually .5mm smaller in the front. They do, however, run a very different sway bar geometry. What I found is that the bars help level the car and help the rear end rotate, without the "skating" feeling you get from the larger Eibachs at high speeds over rough surfaces. This whole thing takes you back to the debate of do you tune by shocks/springs or do you tune by bars. The choice is yours. -p ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using HiSpeed Technologies Webmail. http://www.hispeed.com
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#6. Re: shot shocks - from andy radin
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:48:30 -0800 From: "andy radin" <fourfa@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: shot shocks "Adjustability on car: Depends what you drive - 95 M3 fronts are adjustable from under the hood, 96+ are not centered in the strut tower, so realistically they're not (although I'm sure if someone has figured out a way they'll pipe up)." I'll pipe up. I made this from aluminum dowel on a band saw (steel would be better), but you could do it at home with a hacksaw or dremel. with this I can adjust the front shocks using the Koni adjust knob: http://www.fourfa.com/pics/koni_adjusters.PDF "Backs are really an off the car exercise, but I usually leave mine at 3.5 turns from soft and forget'em." 3.5 turns! What kind of spring are you using? That sounds brutally stiff. andy r. 98 m3/2
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#7. auto-dimming mirror rubber grommet - from S Lafredo
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:48:41 -0800 (PST) From: S Lafredo <slafredo@yahoo.com> Subject: auto-dimming mirror rubber grommet I forgot who asked me for the auto-dimming mirror rubber grommet part number but I found it and here it is... 61 13 6 903 457 Rubber grommet __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
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#8. Re: Trailing arm bushing - from Peter Fanning
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:15:49 -0800 From: Peter Fanning <p.fanning@verizon.net> Subject: Re: Trailing arm bushing There we're no visible signs of stress at the mount or arm. The car has ~75K miles with a mostly stock suspension and is regularly tracked. The reason I replaced the bushings is because the rear was squirming under load. At 12:37 AM 1/8/2002 -0800, Burgess, Kim L wrote: > Peter Fanning wrote: >"I recently replaced the rear trailing arm bushings with Powerflex bushings >< snip > Peter Fanning '98 M3/4" > >Peter - I have seen your sedan at SIR (now SRP?) and I know you run pretty >hard/quick... >was there any indication of mount failure at the trailing arm pick-up? > >KLB 99M3/2
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#9. E36M3 stock brake lines for price of postage - from S Lafredo
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:41:12 -0800 (PST) From: S Lafredo <slafredo@yahoo.com> Subject: E36M3 stock brake lines for price of postage I have a set of stock E36M3 brake lines. If you want/need them send me $5 to cover postage and you can have them. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives - from nabli@attglobal.net
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:48:03 -0500 From: nabli@attglobal.net Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives Just a minor correction regarding warranties. It is true that Dinan offers an "OEM-level" warranty but let's clarify what that really means. 1. BMW NA does not endorse or recommend the installation of any aftermarket parts from Dinan or any other vendor for that matter. 2. BMW NA will not honor any claims made by an owner, lessee, or a dealer (authorized or not) for a part failure which resulted directly from the installation of an aftermarket item. The reason for "1" and "2" above is that BMW NA does not have a contract or any other agreement with DINAN and therefore doe not have any "privity of contract" with Dinan. 3. If you are bringing you "Dinanized" car into a dealer with a blown suspension part I highly recommend ( and Dinan strictly requires) that you go to a "Dinan authorized" dealer. The "non Dinan: dealer (thru BMW NA that is) does not have to cover the warranty for the same reasons stated in "1" and "2" above. Yes yes, there are countless instances where dealers would just cover an item anyway for many reasons such as customer satisfaction, repeat business, not disclosing to BMW NA that the cause of the problem resulted from the installation of an aftermarket part etc... If you want BMW NAs position on this go to the dealer and ask for a printout of bulletin 01 03 97! Dinan states: "To obtain service under this warranty, the vehicle must be brought, upon discovery of a defect in material and workmanship, to the workshop of any Dinan Authorized Dealer, during normal business hours. The authorized dealer will, without charge for parts or labor, either repair or replace the defective Dinan and/or the original vehicle manufacturer's parts using new or authorized remanufactured parts. The decision to repair or replace said parts is solely the prerogative of Dinan and/or the original vehicle manufacturer. Parts for which replacements are made become the property of Dinan and/or the original vehicle manufacturer. In all cases, a reasonable period of time must be allowed for warranty repairs to be completed after the vehicle is received by the dealer." So what if you go to a "Dinan authorized" dealer? Does this mean you are automatically covered? 4. NO! NO! Dinan's warranty is a "limited warranty" and not a guarantee. This basically means that there are conditions attached to it. You need to look at their warranty which states in part: Dinan's product warranty specifically excludes: *return shipping charges, *towing charges, *damage to a component or assembly due to the installation of replacement parts with specifications that differ in any material respect from the original vehicle manufacturer's or Dinan parts, *damage resulting from the unauthorized modification of a Dinan part or assembly, *damage resulting from the use of other manufacturer's products in conjunction with Dinan products or systems, *damage to the clutch due to power shifting or abuse, *brake rotor warp, *friction materials, *maintenance services and parts when replaced during maintenance such as spark plugs, lubricants, fluids, engine tune-up parts, replacement of filters, coolant and refrigerant, *mechanical adjustments or repairs which result from normal wear and tear, *drive-belts, *light bulbs, *damage due to the failure to perform maintenance services at the specified intervals or in accordance with the instructions in the owner's manual from the original vehicle manufacturer or Dinan's product instructions, *damage attributable to negligence, improper installation, improper treatment or treatment contrary to the instructions in the owner's manual from the original vehicle manufacturer or Dinan's product instructions, *engine damage resulting from altered boost pressure, *damage resulting from the use of improper or contaminated fuel, *damage occurring through corrosion resulting from weak or improper coolant, *damage to a Dinan component as a result of a collision or improper collision damage repairs, *any vehicle operated in any competitive event, *custom-designed competition parts, *incidental and/or consequential damages, including loss of time, inconvenience or loss of the use of the vehicle, *damage resulting from environmental influences, flood, accident, fire damage, or road salt corrosion. Bottom line? Dinan's warranty is really no better or worse that most aftermarket vendors. In fact, there are instances where it might be preferable to directly deal with the manufacturer of an aftermarket part such as Koni etc... Cheers, Jim E. peter@guagenti.com wrote: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:40:25 US/Pacific From: peter@guagenti.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives >From my research, there's nothing different. Actually the key difference is a business one -- warranty. Dinan offers an OEM- level warranty on their work. And if you bring your car into a dealer with a blown suspension part, they'll honor your warranty if you're runnign Dinan, but might not if you're running brand X. Other than that, they're really just re-sellign other people parts.
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#11. RE: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives - from Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:50:06 -0600 From: "Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR" <Christopher.Darling@scott.af.mil> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives That makes a lot of sense. I'm thinkin' I can probably stay with stock bars for the time being. Since I have 92K miles on them, should I change out any of the rubber bushings or end links while I'm under the car? Or is that a big additional project? Cod Major Chris Darling HQ AMC/CEXR DSN 779-0698, Comm (618) 229-0698 -----Original Message----- From: Chester Wong [mailto:chester_p_wong@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:17 AM To: Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR Subject: RE: [E36M3] Suspension Alternatives Well, everything is a compromise. Too much body roll is not conducive to good handling, but it means that you can soak up bumps better. Generally, you use springs to limit body roll. Sway bars just fine tune. Using big bars on small springs is a crutch...a compromise of sorts. You don't want to get beat up when hitting a equal height bump (expansion joint or something similar) but you also want the car not to roll too much. If you're going from just stock, then simply going to Streetline would help a lot. The springs are a bit stiffer and the shocks/struts are a bit stiffer as well. If, at a later time, you find the need to further limit body roll, you can always upgrade the bars. Chester