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#1. Re: [E36M3] Coilover ??? - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:10:14 EST From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Coilover ??? Rob, Don't let hearsay dissaude you from using the Bilstein or Koni struts/inserts. If you are putting on brand new shocks, it is not that big of a deal to do the r&r on either Bilstein or Koni. Working on brand new Bilsteins is easy. You don't have to worry about rusted/corroded parts. Remove the front internal bumpstops. Turn the strut upside down and loosen the 17 mm nut. Then carefully screw the shaft into the body of the strut. Since you are dealing with brand new/no rusted threads, you should be able to screw the shaft in without too much trouble. I doubt if you can get enough leverage with a screwdriver. Instead use a screwdriver bit on your rachet. Pull the strut apart and toss the bumpstop in the trash. Then reassemble and you are good to go. The rear Bilsteins are fine as is - no need to mess with the bumpstop. My only complaint with Bilstein's ride comfort is on small expansion joints in the road. They just don't have any give. They are rock hard from the instant they move up or down. I wish they had about 1/4" of travel before they got super stiff. However, on large bumps or dips, Bilsteins are great. As I and others have said, I didn't know how bad my original struts were until I put Bilsteins on. With the original worn out struts, I could not drive over speed bumps. My M3 would slam down onto the springs [BAM!]. After putting on the new struts, speed bumps and other large bumps are much smoother. Koni's inserts take a little more effort since you have to drill into the old struts, cut off the top, and Dremel the cut. Get a friend to help you. Makes the time go by faster. By the time you two have finished a couple of beers and BS'd, you'll be done. I agree the instructions with the Koni are fuzzy. The pictures sort of give you an idea what to do. The only tricky part is getting the hole drilled exactly right. I guarantee you won't get it right. Don't worry about it. Just ream the hole out until you can get the bolt through. You can make the hole half again bigger with no worry. The one thing that helps with either Bilstein or Koni is a good bench vise. Konis are very good on large bumps as well. However, Konis seem to soak up small expansion joints better than Bilstein. For performance driving I would say Koni and Bilstein are about equal. Extensive street driving probably gets the nod to Koni. Coilovers are not the ultimate best all-around answer. I don't think all coilovers are going to give you the ride comfort you want for extensive street use. Most coilovers I think, including Bilstein PSS9, have linear rate springs. They take some getting used to. Plus, they must be much stiffer or else you do bottom out on large bumps. My main complaint with coilovers is they are the ultimate in adjustability but you pay a high $$$ price. Every time you make any change to the coilovers, you should corner balance and realign the toe/camber/caster. We have a club racer in our club that must have $5,000 worth of corner scales and camber/toe adjustment tools. To get your car properly corner balanced by a mechanic each time will probably cost $400+. The initial installation will require corner balancing. Add another $500 to the price of the coilovers for that. You need to do a toe/camber alignment after you put new struts on with the Koni or Bilstein also. Bottom line? Coilovers could be a very costly idea, especially if you are concerned about going back to stock. I'd suggest getting Koni for primarily street use. Koni or Bilstein for aggressive street use and track. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 Dallas, Texas
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? - from Seth Thomas
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:39:07 -0500 From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? Not sure how you get that it is going to cost you $500 to corner balance the car. That is a little high don't' you think? Lets assume $50 an hour labor and $500 would be 10 hrs. If it takes someone 10 hrs to align the car and corner balance it then they are ripping you off. I had coilovers put on my Porsche, aligned and corner balanced for $500 and that was at $65hr labor. Another point that I think is we might could disagree on is that for street driving only, you don't really have to have the car exactly corner balanced. That is a track only thing. And you and I both know that the factory settings are not exactly corner balanced. As long as you are close to equal I think for street driving it will be okay. Seth Thomas www.m3ltw.com > -----Original Message----- > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com [mailto:LoweSeaton@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:16 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > > > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:10:14 EST > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > > Rob, > > Don't let hearsay dissaude you from using the Bilstein or Koni > struts/inserts. If you are putting on brand new shocks, it is > not that big of a deal to do the r&r on either Bilstein or Koni. > > Working on brand new Bilsteins is easy. You don't have to worry > about rusted/corroded parts. Remove the front internal > bumpstops. Turn the strut upside down and loosen the 17 mm nut. > Then carefully screw the shaft into the body of the strut. Since > you are dealing with brand new/no rusted threads, you should be > able to screw the shaft in without too much trouble. I doubt if > you can get enough leverage with a screwdriver. Instead use a > screwdriver bit on your rachet. Pull the strut apart and toss > the bumpstop in the trash. Then reassemble and you are good to > go. The rear Bilsteins are fine as is - no need to mess with the > bumpstop. > > My only complaint with Bilstein's ride comfort is on small > expansion joints in the road. They just don't have any give. > They are rock hard from the instant they move up or down. I wish > they had about 1/4" of travel before they got super stiff. > > However, on large bumps or dips, Bilsteins are great. As I and > others have said, I didn't know how bad my original struts were > until I put Bilsteins on. With the original worn out struts, I > could not drive over speed bumps. My M3 would slam down onto the > springs [BAM!]. After putting on the new struts, speed bumps and > other large bumps are much smoother. > > Koni's inserts take a little more effort since you have to drill > into the old struts, cut off the top, and Dremel the cut. Get a > friend to help you. Makes the time go by faster. By the time > you two have finished a couple of beers and BS'd, you'll be done. > > I agree the instructions with the Koni are fuzzy. The pictures > sort of give you an idea what to do. The only tricky part is > getting the hole drilled exactly right. I guarantee you won't > get it right. Don't worry about it. Just ream the hole out > until you can get the bolt through. You can make the hole half > again bigger with no worry. > > The one thing that helps with either Bilstein or Koni is a good > bench vise. > > Konis are very good on large bumps as well. However, Konis seem > to soak up small expansion joints better than Bilstein. For > performance driving I would say Koni and Bilstein are about > equal. Extensive street driving probably gets the nod to Koni. > > Coilovers are not the ultimate best all-around answer. I don't > think all coilovers are going to give you the ride comfort you > want for extensive street use. Most coilovers I think, including > Bilstein PSS9, have linear rate springs. They take some getting > used to. Plus, they must be much stiffer or else you do bottom > out on large bumps. > > My main complaint with coilovers is they are the ultimate in > adjustability but you pay a high $$$ price. Every time you make > any change to the coilovers, you should corner balance and > realign the toe/camber/caster. We have a club racer in our club > that must have $5,000 worth of corner scales and camber/toe > adjustment tools. To get your car properly corner balanced by a > mechanic each time will probably cost $400+. The initial > installation will require corner balancing. Add another $500 to > the price of the coilovers for that. You need to do a toe/camber > alignment after you put new struts on with the Koni or Bilstein also. > > Bottom line? Coilovers could be a very costly idea, especially > if you are concerned about going back to stock. I'd suggest > getting Koni for primarily street use. Koni or Bilstein for > aggressive street use and track. > > Lowell Seaton > '95 M3 > Dallas, Texas > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > >
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? - from Birkhead, Rob
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:54:21 -0800 From: "Birkhead, Rob" <rbirkhead@bb.directv.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? Just as a data point. I paid $190 for a complete corner balance and alignment for my C/O kit. It was done by a local race/tuner with a lot of experience and not just the cheapest place in town. I have to disagree that C/O are not as comfortable for the street. I commute over 100miles/day and have tried Dinan, H&R/bilstein, Koni DA C/O kit, and finally a H&R c/o kit. The H&R was by far the most comfortable and very very livable. Most people can't tell that the car is any different than stock. Yes it is true that it runs progressive springs so it is not as nice in stock form as a Koni DA kit on the track, but with some custom work to the H&Rs it can really become an animal at the track and still remain a wonderful street car as well. Any one who is in the SF Bay Area and wants to sample the ride, just shoot me an email. BTW: 4 new springs are more like $200-300 not the $100 that Seth advertised...at least for those of us w/o connections.... Rob
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#4. RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:18:31 EST From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? If you can find a good BMW mechanic for $50/hour, please let us know. <g> Here in Dallas the going rate for good independent mechanics is $90/hour. 3 hours for a good corner balancing - cha ching! = $400+ And realistically, to do a GOOD corner balancing job is going to take 3+ hours. There is a well known mechanic in Dallas that many of us E36M3 owners frequent. We all complain about his high prices but he does good work. He charges $199 for a straight alignment on the M3. But when he is done, it is aligned prefectly. I agree for street use, you don't absolutely need to corner balance. But then my point becomes why buy a fully adjustable suspension and not use it? Lowell Seaton '95 M3 ------------------------------- "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> writes: > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:39:07 -0500 > From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > > Not sure how you get that it is going to cost you $500 to corner balance the > car. That is a little high don't' you think? Lets assume $50 an hour labor > and $500 would be 10 hrs. If it takes someone 10 hrs to align the car and > corner balance it then they are ripping you off. I had coilovers put on my > Porsche, aligned and corner balanced for $500 and that was at $65hr labor. > > Another point that I think is we might could disagree on is that for street > driving only, you don't really have to have the car exactly corner balanced. > That is a track only thing. And you and I both know that the factory > settings are not exactly corner balanced. As long as you are close to equal > I think for street driving it will be okay. > > Seth Thomas > www.m3ltw.com
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#5. Re: Underbody shields go byebye - from Neil Maller
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:26:08 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Underbody shields go byebye on 1/14/02 12:15 PM, "The Abels" <aAbel@austin.rr.com> wrote: >> I'd sell you mine. But the reason it isn't on the car any more is because I >> was unimpressed with it's design and function. >>Neil 96 M3 > So, what are the particular issues with the JTD piece? I was one of the original group that sponsored and purchased the JTD underpanel and Stage 1 brake ducting. (Of course the Stage 1 ducts turned out to be Stage One-and-only...) I installed and used the JTD underpanel for a while. Here's what I don't like about it: 1) Didn't fit my car well, making installation difficult. I had to redrill some of its mounting holes. (Some other people have had better luck.) 2) Not designed to mount or integrate with the factory porkchops - although it could have been. (There's a somewhat problematic modification that can be done to the porkchops to allow them to be used.) 3) The JTD underpanel flexed and clanged annoyingly against the radiator. On the plus side, the JTD panel and the brake ducts were decently made within the limitations of their design. I ended up taking the JTD undertray off and running with nothing until I figured out how to keep the factory parts in place. Fact is the factory parts are better in every respect except one: secure mounting. on 1/14/02 12:15 PM, "JUSTIN GERRY" <JGERRY@butchers.com> wrote: > I *think* BMW actually has a new design for the plastic mounts that go > into the frame rail. The P/Ns have changed and the new mounts do not > seem to be as susceptible to cracking like the old ones. I am not 100% I > bought the right ones but they seem to be a bit stronger. I can get the > P/N if you are interested. Trouble is that the shroud just exerts too much leverage on the mounts, and furthermore the mounting area on the shroud itself is flimsy and easily torn. No matter how strong you make the chassis anchor points, that won't stop the shroud itself from tearing. I've seen a bunch of dislodged shrouds at the track, and they typically are torn at the mounts. The secret is to add additional mounts elsewhere on the shroud in order to spread the load. I've figured out one way to do this that works and is practical, but of course there can be many other solutions. Neil 96 M3
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:38:15 EST From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? I installed a set of Ground Control DA Koni front/ SA rear coilovers on an M coupe. I would say the GC c/o's are as "generalized" as any. GC uses standard Eibach linear rate 60 mm springs. You can buy them in various lengths from 5" to 9" long. And rates from 225 lbs/in to 650+ lbs/in. No real custom design. You just specify what rate springs you want. Jay at GC will help you pick the springs based upon your desired use and amount of lowering you want. Rob just mentioned H&R coilovers. I previously said: "Most coilovers I think, including Bilstein PSS9, have linear rate springs. They take some getting used to." I was thinking H&R c/o's might be the only exception to my linear rate spring rule. Rob Birkead just confirmed they are indeed progressive rate springs. In fact, it sounds like Rob had another brand of c/o's on his M3 and replaced them with the H&R c/o's. This kind of confirms my opinion that linear rate springs are not ideal for street usage. Right Rob? Why did you change to the H&R c/o's? So.... IMHO, I think H&R is proably the one and only coilover suspension I would use for primarily street usage. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 ---------------------------------- "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> writes: > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:18:10 -0500 > From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > > Have you looked at the Ground Control setup with the Konis? You have two > options with it. You can get the system that offers the inserts or for $200 > more they provide their own inserts and you get a complete bolt on deal. I > personally would consider it before I would the PSS9 or a generalized > coilover setup. By generalized I mean like the H&R coilovers or the PSS9 or > something that every kit is the same for every M3 out there. The GC system > can be custom designed by GC with your own spring rates and you still have > the adjustability of the Konis. Another good thing about it is if you > decide you want something stiffer and more track oriented then all you have > to do is buy a new set of springs which is about $100-$150 for all 4. To me > that is better than being stuck with the same spring rates all the time and > only being able to adjust the shocks. Just my $.02 > > Seth Thomas > www.m3ltw.com
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? - from Birkhead, Rob
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:13:49 -0800 From: "Birkhead, Rob" <rbirkhead@bb.directv.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? >-----Original Message----- >From: LoweSeaton@aol.com [mailto:LoweSeaton@aol.com] >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 10:46 AM >To: E36M3 >Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > > >I was thinking H&R c/o's might be the only exception to my linear rate spring rule. Rob Birkead just confirmed they are indeed progressive rate springs. In fact, it sounds like Rob had another brand of c/o's on his M3 >and replaced them with the H&R c/o's. This kind of confirms my opinion that linear rate springs are not ideal for street usage. Right Rob? **This is an interesting point. I actually removed the standard H&R progressive springs and installed higher rate "linear" springs. Why? Well the progressives hurt turn-in and feel too much IMO. The linear springs brought some of this back w/o making the ride too firm. > >Why did you change to the H&R c/o's? ** I was running a TCKline-built Koni DA c/o kit originally but removed this kit as it was just not what I was looking for. The collars rattled and it made a lot of noise. The shocks were also very aggressively valved (even at the lowest setting) and the compression and rebound ramps were very sharp. IMO this is what can make a kit livable on the street or not. **I am running the same rate springs on my H&R as my Koni and there is no comparison in ride. The H&R is MUCH better. Yes razor sharp turn-in is sacrificed a little but I can live with that for a much smoother street ride. I believe the H&R kit setup the Bilsteins with a much slower compression ramp and thus the shocks help smooth out the ride. In my experience, ride comfort is much more sensitive to this than it is to spring rate (to a point). There was not much difference in ride feel when switching from progressives to linear springs with the H&R, only turn-in and "feel" was improved. > >So.... IMHO, I think H&R is proably the one and only coilover suspension I would use for primarily street usage. > **I agree here. H&R makes a wonderful street kit out of the box and still allows for upgrades if you really want.... Rob >Lowell Seaton >'95 M3 >----------------------------------
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#8. FW: Mixing Tires - from Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:24:25 -0600 From: "Darling Christopher Maj AMC/CEXR" <Christopher.Darling@scott.af.mil> Subject: FW: Mixing Tires > Jim, > > I saw Ron's comments on mixing tires and do not disagree, but I have a > little different perspective. > > First of all, let me say up front I do not have first-hand knowledge > of the tires you mentioned. Other than R-Compound BFGs, the only tire > I have had on my car have been Michelin Pilot MXX3 and Pilot Sport. > (Coincidentally enough, I am installing two Bridgestone S-03 Pole > Positions today at 1100.) > > Anyway, the wear pattern you report is typical. My car goes through > rear tires at roughly twice the rate of front tires, despite the fact > that I do not make a practice of "abusing the equipment" in day-to-day > driving. Consequently, I've used the strategy of replacing tires two > at a time since Day One. (I'm original owner of a 95 M3.) TireRack > says the important criteria concerning tires is to ensure you stay > "within the performance category." Therefore I did not hesitate to > combine Michelin Pilot Sports with Michelin Pilot MXX3, since both are > "Max Performance" tires. Likewise, today I will be combining two > Pilot Sports with two Bridgestone Pole Positions, also both in Max > Performance category. Review of the performance tests show these > tires are all very close in capabilities, and I've not noticed any > unusual handling. YMMV if you try to combine tires with a larger > difference in capability. Also, Ron's impromptu testing was much more > demanding than mine--I neither autocrossed nor attended driver schools > with the setup I mentioned (I use R-compounds for that just because of > reduced cost.) > > In summary, I guess I would say this: I've found that mixing tires of > comparable performance category is not a problem for street driving. > I cannot categorically make that statement for track driving as I have > not personally tested it, but I personally would not hesitate to make > the attempt, while paying attention to handling balance when exploring > the limit. > > BTW, the technique that works for me is to put the two NEW tires on > the front. Move the 1/2 worn fronts to the back, then discard the > slick rear tires. I get good mileage out of my tires, and it's a lot > easier on the wallet than trying to buy four tires all at once. > > HTH, > > Cod > Major Chris Darling > HQ AMC/CEXR > DSN 779-0698, Comm (618) 229-0698 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:53:53 -0800 > From: Jim Files <jfiles@alumni.ucsd.edu> > Subject: thoughts on mixing tires > > Good afternoon group, > > I am in the wear-bars on my rear tires. Not too surprising that they > are > done while the fronts still appear fresh. > > I picked the car up CPO in March of 2001. It came with new > Bridgestone > Potenza RE730s on all four corners. These tires have worked fine, but > I am > considering moving to something more aggressive. > > The car will see at least one HPDE (Buttonwillow, March 2002, > registration > already submitted), possibly more as my schedule and budget allow. I > have > driven with the RE730s on the track, and it seemed fine, but I had > only had > the car a couple of weeks at the time, was not pushing as hard as I > think I > would now. > > I know that I need a pair of new tires in the back. I do not think I > will > replace the fronts at this time, there is just too much life left on > them. > > There is also the unlikely option: Sell the MXX3 off the spare in the > > trunk to someone reasonably local. Move one of the RE730s to the > trunk. Get new tires all around, keeping the other RE730 in the > garage > "just in case." > > > > What are you thoughts regarding putting something like the Pilot Sport > or > S-03 PP on the rear, while leaving the RE730 in front? > > > > Comments off list are welcome. > > Jim > 98 M3/2 > > -- > ICQ:27292190 > mailto:jfiles@alumni.ucsd.edu (slow delivery lately, urgent? -> phone) > > >
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? - from D Snyder
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:20:45 -0800 From: "D Snyder" <m3ltw@msn.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:18:10 -0500 > From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > > Have you looked at the Ground Control setup with the Konis? You have two > options with it. You can get the system that offers the inserts or for $200 > more they provide their own inserts and you get a complete bolt on deal. I > personally would consider it before I would the PSS9 or a generalized > coilover setup. By generalized I mean like the H&R coilovers or the PSS9 or > something that every kit is the same for every M3 out there. The GC system > can be custom designed by GC with your own spring rates and you still have > the adjustability of the Konis. Another good thing about it is if you > decide you want something stiffer and more track oriented then all you have > to do is buy a new set of springs which is about $100-$150 for all 4. To me > that is better than being stuck with the same spring rates all the time and > only being able to adjust the shocks. Just my $.02 > > Seth Thomas > www.m3ltw.com Just two points: 1) Bilsteins can also be customized to any spring rates (mine are) for that "custom" setup. 2) Bilstein coilovers also allow you to change springs (or ride heights) for both softer and stiffer! Dan
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? - from Seth Thomas
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:43:51 -0500 From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? I will disagree with the GC being "generalized coilovers" and the reason being is that you can mix and match spring rates with the springs and also get custom valving in on the shocks as an option. Can you do this with the H&R coilovers? Nope. Yes you can do a custom setup like Rob mentioned but that requires buying an extra set of springs to put in place of the ones the kit comes with. So now you have $1300 in the coilover and whatever else the new springs and collars cost. So lets just say $1500 total. Now the GC kit will run you about $200 cheaper than the H&R and with it you should not have to buy any extra springs. One thing that I think is a problem with this discussion is that ride quality is opinion and each person is different. So leaving that out of it which kit do we think is the best for the money? My vote still goes to the GC as it is customizable compared to the H&R. On a side note I have had experience with a lot of setups on the street. I have had a Dinan suspension which I thought was pretty good but still a little rough. This was probably the best track/street combo I have experienced that is not coilovers. Next was a H&R Race/Bilstein which I thought was as stiff as the Dinan but it had a lot of front end bounce to it. There was just something about it that I didn't like the feel. Next was a PTG LTW Race/Bilstein that was great on the track and stiff on the street but not too bad. After that I bought I set of Koni DA front and rear coilovers. Now this is the trick as far as I am concerned. My spring rates are fairly conservative as I drive my LTW on the street still. The adjustability of the shocks allows me to dial out the extra spring rates that I did use. And I personally like the feel of the linear springs on the street and track better than progressive rate springs. Next is the H&R coilovers that are on my 1996 M3. I like these but here is my quirk with them. The shocks aren't adjustable and the rear springs are way to soft for the fronts. To me the rear feels like it is too light. And riding on the street I would compare this to my LTWs ride quality but just a little bit softer. I think the H&Rs would be better matched with another set of springs on the rear. And another note on the 1996 car is that I am running 18" wheels so that might be another factor in its ride quality. But then again that is just me. Seth Thomas www.m3ltw.com > -----Original Message----- > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com [mailto:LoweSeaton@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 1:38 PM > To: porsche993@mindspring.com; e36m3@bmw-m.net > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > > > I installed a set of Ground Control DA Koni front/ SA rear > coilovers on an M coupe. I would say the GC c/o's are as > "generalized" as any. GC uses standard Eibach linear rate 60 mm > springs. You can buy them in various lengths from 5" to 9" long. > And rates from 225 lbs/in to 650+ lbs/in. No real custom > design. You just specify what rate springs you want. Jay at GC > will help you pick the springs based upon your desired use and > amount of lowering you want. > > Rob just mentioned H&R coilovers. I previously said: > > "Most coilovers I think, including Bilstein PSS9, have linear > rate springs. They take some getting used to." > > I was thinking H&R c/o's might be the only exception to my linear > rate spring rule. Rob Birkead just confirmed they are indeed > progressive rate springs. In fact, it sounds like Rob had > another brand of c/o's on his M3 and replaced them with the H&R > c/o's. This kind of confirms my opinion that linear rate springs > are not ideal for street usage. Right Rob? Why did you change > to the H&R c/o's? > > So.... IMHO, I think H&R is proably the one and only coilover > suspension I would use for primarily street usage. > > Lowell Seaton > '95 M3 > ---------------------------------- > "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> writes: > > > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:18:10 -0500 > > From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> > > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Coilover ??? > > > > Have you looked at the Ground Control setup with the Konis? > You have two > > options with it. You can get the system that offers the > inserts or for $200 > > more they provide their own inserts and you get a complete bolt > on deal. I > > personally would consider it before I would the PSS9 or a generalized > > coilover setup. By generalized I mean like the H&R coilovers > or the PSS9 or > > something that every kit is the same for every M3 out there. > The GC system > > can be custom designed by GC with your own spring rates and you > still have > > the adjustability of the Konis. Another good thing about it is if you > > decide you want something stiffer and more track oriented then > all you have > > to do is buy a new set of springs which is about $100-$150 for > all 4. To me > > that is better than being stuck with the same spring rates all > the time and > > only being able to adjust the shocks. Just my $.02 > > > > Seth Thomas > > www.m3ltw.com