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#1. Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? - from Chester Wong
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Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 17:17:44 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? Could very well be the case. No, I don't think new RSMs are included with a Dinan suspension kit. You really have a lot of faith in your dealer don't you? You think they used new single-use self locking nuts where needed? A lot of mechanics simply reuse nuts, bolts, RSMs, etc. If your mechanic cleaned out your brakes because you complain of squeaking and they pull it off and see a melted/torn/pulled out piston sleeve, do you think they'll replace it? In fact, I'll argue that the majority of dealerships out there don't have caliper rebuild kits in stock. RSMs in stock? Good luck. So that'll be another 2 hours of labor to R&R the stealthboxes, eh? Chester > Anybody? RSM? Remember, I just had a new Dinan suspension installed a > few weeks ago...I dont know if new RSMs are part of the kit or not, but > either way if the mounts were going, I cant imagine they would have > installed new shocks with them. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com
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#2. Re: Finally the Facts - well maybe - from The Buch
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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 18:34:45 -0800 From: The Buch <the_buch@telus.net> Subject: Re: Finally the Facts - well maybe This is very encouraging ... plus, when you look at my two (L and R) negative camber numbers from the front (which are in degrees and minutes), they are extremely close .... thanks Neil! ... Doug Neil Maller wrote: > on 2/9/02 10:47 AM, The Buch <the_buch@telus.net> wrote: > > > The -0.6 degrees caster remark by the installing mechanic turns out to be a > > relative number, although from the following schedule, I do not quite know > > where this might have come from. > > > For general information, I am listing the details from the spec sheet > > generated by the dealer's 'Beissbarth ML4000'. Numbers in the following list > > are all in degrees and minutes (1/60 degree) with the minutes delimited by a > > comma, and for each suspension parameter are the May 2001 target spec for a > > '99 E36 M3 'with sport suspension', followed by the +/- variance max in > > parentheses, and finally the L and R measurements on my suspension after > > adjustment (or not): > > > > Rear Camber -2,00' (+/-0,30') -2,01'L -2,10'R > > Rear Toe (Total of both) +0,30' (+/-0,05') +0,31' > > Geometrical Driving Axis +0,00' (+/-0,03') -0,01' (not adjusted) > > > Front Castor +6,58' (+/-0,30') +7,54'L +7,52'R > > (not adjusted) > > Front Camber -2,00' (+/-0,30') -1,05'L -0,56'R > > (further adj unavailable?) > > > Front Toe (Total of both) +0,10' (+/-0,05') +0,10' > > Kingpin Inclination N / A ( N / A ) +14,33'L +14,21'R > > (n / a) > > OK first, the GIGO issue (that's Garbage In, Garbage Out for you non > computer geeks). Those are NOT the correct alignment specs for your M3, > because the version we get doesn't have the "Sports Suspension." > > According to the BMW TIS CD-ROM, 6/2000 version, the specs for your 99 M3 > are: > > Front Caster (@10 deg lock) +7,35' (+/-0,30') > Front Caster (@20 deg lock) +7,50' (+/-0,30') > > Front Camber -0,46' (+/-0,30') > Front Toe (Total of both) +0,20' (+/-0,05') > > Note that this differs from what's in Bentley (which doesn't match the > sports suspension specs either). I prefer to believe BMW's own specs... > > > Any and all comments or suggestions on this setup or how it will perform > > will be appreciated > > First let me say that in my experience a substantial difference - meaning a > degree or so - between the left and right sides isn't uncommon. It's a case > of "they all do that." > > Second I'd like to address a common and oft-repeated misconception about > measurement conditions. Many people think that there's a BMW spec about > loading down the car with 68 kg or whatever weights positioned here and > there before doing an alignment. That's true - but NOT for the M3. > > For the M3 you're instead supposed to adjust the ride HEIGHT to spec by the > use of whatever weights may be appropriate. Problem is, when you modify the > suspension the ride height changes. And with stiffer springs there's very > little suspension movement under passenger load anyway. So there's no longer > a right answer. My own suggestion would be to adjust toe to the desired > value under your most common driving condition, which is probably with the > driver only on board. > > > For some reason, I thought I would be getting some more negative camber on the > > front with the TCK Streetline? > > Now that you know that the spec isn't -2,00, you may want to rethink things. > You should, and probably did, get a little more negative camber through > lowering. If you fell strongly enough about equalizing the two sides, you > can either install camber shims or buy camber plates. > > Don't worry about the caster; it's fine. > > And remember that neither camber nor caster are adjustable without > additional parts. > > > It looks to me that I will either have to buy > > some further adjustment capability, or live with an extra degree of positive > > front castor and a degree less of negative front camber > > The good news: you really did not lose any negative camber. A good range for > street use is anywhere form stock to maybe -1,30'. More than that and uneven > tire wear becomes an issue. > > Neil > 96 M3
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#3. Fikse FM5 vs. LTW whls - from bmwm3nut@att.net
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 04:23:43 +0000 From: bmwm3nut@att.net Subject: Fikse FM5 vs. LTW whls I have 2 sets of Fikse wheels (fm10, fm5) and a set of SSR Comps. My friend has a set of LTW wheels (the real deal). I can tell you that the Fikse and the SSR are lighter. I weigh my Fikse wheels and they are 17#s each without the bolts (we all have to use wheels bolts so that is a constant) The LTW wheels weight 21#s. The SSR COMPS weigh 15#s. I think Forgelines are the lightest by far, they are 13#. Tim Ng >Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 15:37:25 -0500 >From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> >Subject: Fikse FM5 (5 spoke) 17x8.5 inch weights >>Weight with the 5 Fikse-supplied lug bolts for this rim: 21.15 pounds<< =20 Wow...my Motorsport dblspoke forged ltwts from BMW weigh 20 lbs, so I dont think there's too much out there that look as good, and are much lighter. =20 thanks. =20 Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3 -- Tim Ng 95 YELA/BUZZN/M3 92 325ic M-Tech "ULTIMATE TANNING MACHINE" 91///M3 "SUNNY DAY CAR" 88///M3 "TRACK CAR" SICK ENGINE 87 325IS PARTS CAR HOT ENGINE 83 320i "back for sale, buyer never showed"
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:19:21 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? Chester, >>If your mechanic cleaned out your brakes because you complain of squeaking and they pull it off and see a melted/torn/pulled out piston sleeve, do you think they'll replace it<< no probably not....but they did fix a connection to my EGT probe where the tape had come off, and replaced it with shrink wrap, without request from me, which is probably more than some dealers would do... Im just saying that what does the dealer have to gain by installing new Konis on Shock Mounts which are no good....Remember, these are warranty items, and, unlike the installation of the shocks which I paid plenty for, any re-dos due to either falty installation or worn mounts will be on them, not me...See my point?! It would behoove them to be careful during the shock installation to make sure a redo isnt necessary. Clearly Im not going to pay for it. And I dont think theyd try to get me to either..Clearly, rsms are part of the warrantied suspension, as are any other superfluous clunks, creaks, or squeaks. Why go in there twice, on them, when they really only had to go there once, on me, as in during installation....Doesnt make good economic sense...And the one thing I know dealers are familar with is good economics, for them... What I wanted you to tell me is what does a busted or loose rsm typically sound like? Would it sound like a seat belt sounds when your pull on it hard, or , does it sound more like a heavy metallic sound, as you might imagine a shock banging against a muffler or something likethat. >>> So that'll be another 2 hours of labor to R&R the stealthboxes, eh?<< As I said, this is going to be on them, if its due to a suspension issue. Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; < 40K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Water Injection; Rotex pads;X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chester Wong" <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> To: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net>; "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? > Could very well be the case. No, I don't think new RSMs are included with a > Dinan suspension kit. You really have a lot of faith in your dealer don't you? > You think they used new single-use self locking nuts where needed? A lot of > mechanics simply reuse nuts, bolts, RSMs, etc. If your mechanic cleaned out > your brakes because you complain of squeaking and they pull it off and see a > melted/torn/pulled out piston sleeve, do you think they'll replace it? In > fact, I'll argue that the majority of dealerships out there don't have caliper > rebuild kits in stock. RSMs in stock? Good luck. > > So that'll be another 2 hours of labor to R&R the stealthboxes, eh? > > Chester > > > Anybody? RSM? Remember, I just had a new Dinan suspension installed a > > few weeks ago...I dont know if new RSMs are part of the kit or not, but > > either way if the mounts were going, I cant imagine they would have > > installed new shocks with them. > > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > http://greetings.yahoo.com >
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#5. Watch out BMW - from Robert Exconde
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 02:53:47 +0000 From: "Robert Exconde" <99e36M3@exconde.com> Subject: Watch out BMW I'm stuuck in K-Tucky fer da weekeund fer werk. End I happened 'cross this s-eyet. I recken its real; I taut I'd bring a sum humour to the table <sip of burbon>... http://www.blueovalnews.com&item%3dq209354@www.gearfx.com/bon.htm?indexflash=ok&whichtruck=e\ Robert I'm missin' mah M here now that I'm drivin' dis ere pickup. PS sorry if I offend anyone, I"m just really bored out here on a saturday. I think its about time to hit the bars. (As I suddenly seem to loose my written accent.
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? - from Jay G
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 02:36:26 -1000 From: Jay G <jguzman@hawaii.edu> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? see inserts below... Paul Elliott wrote: > Why go in there twice, on them, when they > really only had to go there once, on me, as in during installation....Doesnt > make good economic sense...And the one thing I know dealers are familar with > is good economics, for them... > doesnt BMWNA pay for it??? so the dealer can make money by charging BMWNA if they claim it as warranty service, right??? and i know that the dinan suspensions dont include new RSMs...maybe they wore out after the install, or the tech didnt know/care about a worn RSM... > > What I wanted you to tell me is what does a busted or loose rsm typically > sound like? Would it sound like a seat belt sounds when your pull on it > hard, or , does it sound more like a heavy metallic sound, as you might > imagine a shock banging against a muffler or something likethat. on my 97 M3, i took mine in to the dealer WITHOUT any noise...it was around 24,xxx miles, and i figured they were already toast...there was NO noise whatsoever, but i told them that i thought my RSMs were no good...service advisor was a prick (and he didnt believe me either)...but, sure enough, when i picked up my work order, two RSMs were found torn and replaced... i think mine are no good again, b/c i have a minute squeak from the RSM area...it's like a slight metal-to-metal creaking noise when i go over bumpy areas...anyway, i'll be changing it out soon...i already have the E46 M3 mounts and Z3 reinforcement plates... and paul, the RSMs are right under your stealthboxes...so if you hear the sound coming from behind the rear seat side bolster, it's probably your RSMs...try to see if the dealer can use the E46 M3 mounts...if not, then try to get them to cover the labor if you buy the parts...good luck...
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 08:50:12 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? >>and i know that the dinan suspensions dont include new RSMs...maybe they wore out after the install, or the tech didnt know/care about a worn RSM...<< Guess what folks....I thought I saw this before, but forgot where...This morning, I found out. In the Koni box is where the dealership put the rear stock shocks for me to keep...And in the box were a pair of dirtied, but unbroken stock REAR SHOCK MOUNTS! Which tells me that the dealer replaced them when he installed the Konis. So, I guess I'll have to start looking for another source of the clink clink.....Besides I ve been told that the rsms when they go bad will make a sound that resonates a bit in the cabin....My noise doesnt resonate at all...Ist simlply a metallic click or click-click when over sharp bumps. Maybe theres another isse with the shock installation they need to look at. Cause I cant think of what else is behind the rear seat side bolster except the shock...But since it definitely sounds like its in the cabin, it makes its location very difficult, as Ive ruled out such things as the rear head rest, the seat belts, the brackets on the c pillar, the rear seat belts, etc, etc....Besides, when sitting in back it sounds like you should be able to just remove the rear seat side bolster, and reach in there and muffle the sound....but when you pop it off, you cant see anything thats responsible for it. bummer... Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; < 40K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Water Injection; Rotex pads;X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay G" <jguzman@hawaii.edu> To: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Cc: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rear Shock Mount problem? > see inserts below... > > Paul Elliott wrote: > > > Why go in there twice, on them, when they > > really only had to go there once, on me, as in during installation....Doesnt > > make good economic sense...And the one thing I know dealers are familar with > > is good economics, for them... > > > > doesnt BMWNA pay for it??? so the dealer can make money by charging BMWNA if > they claim it as warranty service, right??? and i know that the dinan > suspensions dont include new RSMs...maybe they wore out after the install, or > the tech didnt know/care about a worn RSM... > > > > > What I wanted you to tell me is what does a busted or loose rsm typically > > sound like? Would it sound like a seat belt sounds when your pull on it > > hard, or , does it sound more like a heavy metallic sound, as you might > > imagine a shock banging against a muffler or something likethat. > > on my 97 M3, i took mine in to the dealer WITHOUT any noise...it was around > 24,xxx miles, and i figured they were already toast...there was NO noise > whatsoever, but i told them that i thought my RSMs were no good...service > advisor was a prick (and he didnt believe me either)...but, sure enough, when i > picked up my work order, two RSMs were found torn and replaced... > > i think mine are no good again, b/c i have a minute squeak from the RSM > area...it's like a slight metal-to-metal creaking noise when i go over bumpy > areas...anyway, i'll be changing it out soon...i already have the E46 M3 mounts > and Z3 reinforcement plates... > > and paul, the RSMs are right under your stealthboxes...so if you hear the sound > coming from behind the rear seat side bolster, it's probably your RSMs...try to > see if the dealer can use the E46 M3 mounts...if not, then try to get them to > cover the labor if you buy the parts...good luck... > >
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#8. Re:[E36M3] Diff/Tran fluids and Redline - from Eric & Karen
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 08:57:11 -0500 From: Eric & Karen <kedots@mac.com> Subject: Re:[E36M3] Diff/Tran fluids and Redline Jeff Abel wrote > The smoothness of my gearbox with redline d4 atf has diminished noticably > after 6 months. That includes several track events, and lots and lots of > heavy city driving. Here's my story with the D4 ATF in my 95 M3. YMMV When I bought the car I switched it to the Redline D4 ATF as recommended. Never noticed much difference with the shifting. About 30k later when I hit 100k I changed the D4 again. On the first trip down the road the tranny was grinding on the 4-3 downshift. Checked the fluid level and it was OK, but unless I was deliberately slow with the 4-3 shift it would grind every single time. With Winterfest at Sebring coming up this would be acceptable out on the track. I've got plenty of other things to worry about without trying to baby that shift, especially since the almost entire track is 3rd or 4th gear. I decided I would try Redline MTL instead. After the first change the grinding was better, but still happened occasionally. Drove it for a couple of weeks, then flushed it again. Since then, including a weekend at the track, I've had NO grinding at all. Trans shifts the smoothest since I've owned the car. So if your having shifting issues, you may want to try MTL. Coincidentally, Rob Levinson made similar observations around this time on the UUC list. He said anytime he had shifting trouble he would switch from D4 to MTL OR vice-versa, and said it always worked for him. Bought from Eurasian, good service, cheap cost. Eric 95 M3 00 Passat Wagon
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#9. rsms - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 09:09:57 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: rsms I just reviewed the itemized bill for my suspension upgrade and saw the following: " 2 x 33-52-1-137-972 Guide Support...................39.35 tot 78.70" Are what they are calling 'guide supports' what we call Rear Shock Mounts? If so, then the c suc..rs charged me for a part that should be under warranty! heretofore, I had assumed they were *additional* some part needed for the suspension, not a warranty replacement part! Either way, there goes the rsm causing the clink clink theory. Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; < 40K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Water Injection; Rotex pads;X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio
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#10. TC Kline v. Ground Control camber/caster plates - from NSimon1111@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:33:01 EST From: NSimon1111@aol.com Subject: TC Kline v. Ground Control camber/caster plates Would appreciate advice regarding the relative merits of TC Kline's and Ground Control's adjustable camber/caster plates. Concerned both about the ease of adjustment and about how much harshness will be transmitted when I get rid of the stock rubber strut bearing. Also, are there alternatives -- such as K-MAC -- that are worth considering. TIA Neil Simon Wash, DC 99 M Coupe