-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. Re: [E36M3] Rogue Engineering Short Shifter - from The Abels
Top
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:32:09 -0600 From: "The Abels" <aAbel@austin.rr.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rogue Engineering Short Shifter "Has anyone tried the E36 short-shifter from http://www.rogueengineering.com" I apologize in advance for the length, but here's my review of the kit from the one of the boards. I have no affiliation with RE, although in retrospect my review sounds like an advertisement. Jeff ------ Background: My last car was a Honda S2000. This car, has one of the best shifters on the planet IMHO. Short, almost too short of a throw with very positive engagement. When I got my M3, I was disappointed with the shifting. .. . Long throws and sort of rubbery. Felt like a truck in comparison to my S2000. If you haven't driven an S2000, do so and you'll know what I mean. Kit evaluation: First, I brought the kit to the shop that I use. The funny thing is, the tech I talked with is a tinkerer: he had his personal car on a lift and had disassembled his shifter linkage, and was in the process of modifying his current SS kit. While I did not fully understand what he was doing (something about pivot relocation I think), he was proud of his ingenuity. I then stated that I have RE's kit and he wanted to check it out. He said that RE had already done to their kit what he was trying to do. Then, he said that Rogue went beyond what was necessary in terms of component quality, completeness, and aesthetics. He was thoroughly impressed (his words, not mine). WSR evaluation: I have a first production run unit. Well built, solid. Very heavy. The same tech that looked over the SS Kit said that in the VW world, most SS kits come with a counterbalance to attenuate notchiness. E36 kits do not b/c of the packaging concerns, just too tight down there. He thought the WSR was a great idea. Install: I did not do this myself, after climbing under the car and looking everything over. I was charged one hour ($72). The tech that did the work said that the install went w/o drama. First Drive: My car felt like my Honda. No kidding. Slightly longer throws, but less notchiness than the S2000. I couldn't have been happier. Engagement is more precise. Resistance to engagement is only slightly higher than stock. On the track: I got the car to the track the weekend after the install. No drama, just precise shifting all weekend long. Today: Still happy with the SS and WSR. But now, I'm so used to it, I need to change something else. Argghh. Other comparisons: The only other car I've driven with a SS kit is a friends with the Stygar parts. The RE kit is smoother and more stock-like in the required effort to engage gears. More 'snick snick' if you will. Note, however, that this is not a totally telling comparison since each kit was on different cars. -------------------
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. Dinan's Alignment Settings - from Ahmad Lutfeali
Top
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:40:51 -0500 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: Dinan's Alignment Settings I had my car aligned at Dick's Autobody and they had a list consisting = of Dinan's Alignment settings. (From Stage 1 to 4). Does anyone has = access to the settings used by Dinan? I am currently running -2 camber (front), 5.4 caster and +0.16inch total = toe -2 camber (rear) with +.014 total toe Previously I ran -3 degree front and -2 rear with 0 toe (front and rear) = with 6.5 caster. The car feels a bit weird to drive now. It feels the = rear is going to step out (and sometimes does). Any suggestions? Thanks = in advance. Ahmad 97 M3 Coupe=20 Boston, MA Ahmad A. Lutfeali
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. Mille Miglia M11 in MA - from Ahmad Lutfeali
Top
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:43:19 -0500 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: Mille Miglia M11 in MA Does anyone know of a source other than Tirerack on Mille Miglia M11 = Sport 17*8 (I am in Boston). I bent a wheel and need one ASAP before the = weekend. Just weighing my options if I can just go pick it up locally. = Overnight might not help a lot since I need to get it aligned too. = Thanks. Ahmad A. Lutfeali
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. Re: [E36M3] re: big brake kits - from Jake Tiggersman
Top
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:46:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Tiggersman <jtigole@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] re: big brake kits Chester, Ok then,exactly how is the strut bar unsafe? How many people have complained about either design? Why not address the safety issue towards TMS? Their kit is IDENTICAL. I felt the Movit, TMS and ECIS pedal feel were all very similar. That is why I thought it was a crock when you said the pedal feel was way off. I believe Rogue does bolt-up and I know for sure that the ECIS uses a bracket. So, where is the weak link or problem? Is it with the RE kit or the ECIS kit? Anyone who has been on this list or any of the internet bulletin board for the past 2 years has probably seen the "flip" performed by the amazing Chester Wong. Originally, you are in the UUC camp talking about how great their products are and how AA and others are copy cats and make weak products in comparison. Totally up their ass... Then, overnight, you are bashing Ben, UUC and now Rogue. Not hard to figure out, Chester, that you have issues with Ben. What happened, Ben didn't give you a big enough discount on UUC parts? The time spent here bashing Ben might be better served on a therapist's couch. --- Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- Jake Tiggersman <jtigole@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Look folks, Chester's 'issues' are flyin' all over > the > > place. Who cares about a UUC Strut bar that was > > re-engineered, we are talking about brake > components > > made by third party manufactuers (Brembo, Hawk, > > Goodridge, BMW) and package as a brake kit. This > is > > NOT a RE product engineered and produced by RE > > exclusively. > > I don't get it. This is a direct answer to your > question if I thought Ben > would sell anything unsafe? I'm merely pointing out > my observations of Ben in > the past which, I think, is a good indication about > his attention to detail. > > > <Have you driven a car with Movit front and rear > > brakes? Have you had a direct comparison? > > > > I HAVE driven cars with other brake kits (Movit > and > > TMS) before I made my comments about liking or > buying > > the ECIS kit. I don't make off the cuff comments > > without knowing something about the product first. > > And how am I making off the cuff comments? Since > you have driven cars with the > various setups, do you perceive a difference in > pedal feel/feedback between > Movit and TMS? > > > <Same parts? How do you arrive at that? Rogue > uses > > a caliper some have saidcome from a Lotus. > Whatever. > > Your kit uses a Boxster S caliper. How are the > parts > > the same?>? > > > > The rotor is the same, the SS line is the same and > the > > caliper is made by the SAME company (Brembo) with > the > > exact same pistons sizes. That is how! Do your > > homework before you make bold proclamations... > > And how are the calipers fixed to the kingpin? The > same? I think not. The > Rogue kit, and this is perhaps the biggest pro to > the kit, bolts right up. I > believe the ECIS kit uses adapter brackets, no? > > > <Um...he drove my car and said, "WOW! Your pedal > is > > rock solid...my stock brakes didn't even feel that > > good!"> > > > > You cannot compare your Movit Kit to a smaller > BBK, > > it's apples to oranges. > > Wouldn't pedal feel get more vague as the pistons > get larger when compared to a > hydraulic system designed for smaller piston surface > area? > > Chester > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ===== Jake Tiggersman 95 M3 UUC Comp Evo SS ECIS BBK AA Gen III Exhaust __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. re: big brake kits - from Jake Tiggersman
Top
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:58:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Tiggersman <jtigole@yahoo.com> Subject: re: big brake kits <DING> Chester, Do you hear that sound? It is the sound of the hammer hitting the nail square on the head... Thanks Suzy for saying what was painfully obvious. <From: Sue Kraft <suekraft@new.rr.com> Are you having a bad day, Chester? Or are you just bored and feel like stirring things up a bit? BTW, aren't you a BMW vendor yourself? Or at least affiliated with one? If so, shouldn't you disclose this fact when attacking other vendors on my list? Suzy> ===== Jake Tiggersman 95 M3 UUC Comp Evo SS ECIS BBK AA Gen III Exhaust __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. Big Brake Kits? - from Dorffer, Rich
Top
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:05:02 -0500 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Big Brake Kits? Having recently participated in a spirited discussion on another digest where I feared repercussions by the other individuals involved and I felt it was getting out of hand, I wanted to say that I appreciate the spirited debate about big brakes. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments, whether I agree or not always is another matter. My only advice would be to try to keep the information as factual as possible and avoid too many personal comments (I am by no means trying to place any blame on anyone or to insult anyone). If everyone did this, it would be most beneficial. I only hope no one is too offended or wants to depart the list as a result. We need as many educated and spirited individuals / vendors on this list as possible. I have learned so much from the various opinions of others on this list. Sorry for interjecting my $.02, I just don't really want anyone alienated as I depend on this list to learn as much as I can...consider me selfish. Best regards, Rich - Remembers Powell's exit...now he just hangs out at BimmerForums.
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. OH NO!!!! Re: [E36M3] re: big brake kits - from Mark Radelow
Top
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 19:07:22 +0000 From: "Mark Radelow" <radelow@hotmail.com> Subject: OH NO!!!! Re: [E36M3] re: big brake kits Please let's not start this. I had to deal with this kind of crap on the VW VR6 _and_ VW 16V lists. Let's not start a flame war... :( Mark From: Jake Tiggersman <jtigole@yahoo.com> Reply-To: Jake Tiggersman <jtigole@yahoo.com> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] re: big brake kits Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:55:18 -0600 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:46:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Tiggersman <jtigole@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] re: big brake kits Chester, Ok then,exactly how is the strut bar unsafe? How many people have complained about either design? Why not address the safety issue towards TMS? Their kit is IDENTICAL. I felt the Movit, TMS and ECIS pedal feel were all very similar. That is why I thought it was a crock when you said the pedal feel was way off. I believe Rogue does bolt-up and I know for sure that the ECIS uses a bracket. So, where is the weak link or problem? Is it with the RE kit or the ECIS kit? Anyone who has been on this list or any of the internet bulletin board for the past 2 years has probably seen the "flip" performed by the amazing Chester Wong. Originally, you are in the UUC camp talking about how great their products are and how AA and others are copy cats and make weak products in comparison. Totally up their ass... Then, overnight, you are bashing Ben, UUC and now Rogue. Not hard to figure out, Chester, that you have issues with Ben. What happened, Ben didn't give you a big enough discount on UUC parts? The time spent here bashing Ben might be better served on a therapist's couch. --- Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- Jake Tiggersman <jtigole@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Look folks, Chester's 'issues' are flyin' all over > the > > place. Who cares about a UUC Strut bar that was > > re-engineered, we are talking about brake > components > > made by third party manufactuers (Brembo, Hawk, > > Goodridge, BMW) and package as a brake kit. This > is > > NOT a RE product engineered and produced by RE > > exclusively. > > I don't get it. This is a direct answer to your > question if I thought Ben > would sell anything unsafe? I'm merely pointing out > my observations of Ben in > the past which, I think, is a good indication about > his attention to detail. > > > <Have you driven a car with Movit front and rear > > brakes? Have you had a direct comparison? > > > > I HAVE driven cars with other brake kits (Movit > and > > TMS) before I made my comments about liking or > buying > > the ECIS kit. I don't make off the cuff comments > > without knowing something about the product first. > > And how am I making off the cuff comments? Since > you have driven cars with the > various setups, do you perceive a difference in > pedal feel/feedback between > Movit and TMS? > > > <Same parts? How do you arrive at that? Rogue > uses > > a caliper some have saidcome from a Lotus. > Whatever. > > Your kit uses a Boxster S caliper. How are the > parts > > the same?>? > > > > The rotor is the same, the SS line is the same and > the > > caliper is made by the SAME company (Brembo) with > the > > exact same pistons sizes. That is how! Do your > > homework before you make bold proclamations... > > And how are the calipers fixed to the kingpin? The > same? I think not. The > Rogue kit, and this is perhaps the biggest pro to > the kit, bolts right up. I > believe the ECIS kit uses adapter brackets, no? > > > <Um...he drove my car and said, "WOW! Your pedal > is > > rock solid...my stock brakes didn't even feel that > > good!"> > > > > You cannot compare your Movit Kit to a smaller > BBK, > > it's apples to oranges. > > Wouldn't pedal feel get more vague as the pistons > get larger when compared to a > hydraulic system designed for smaller piston surface > area? > > Chester > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ===== Jake Tiggersman 95 M3 UUC Comp Evo SS ECIS BBK AA Gen III Exhaust __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. ************************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. RE: [E36M3] Rogue Engineering Short Shifter - from Jim Bassett
Top
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:15:34 -0800 From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Rogue Engineering Short Shifter At 08:21 AM 4/3/02, Riley, Scott wrote: >P.S. Wishing I was Jim Bassett with RE as a sponsor... Heh, it's not that big of a deal....yet :-) I've known Ben for a few years now, since before he started UUC Motorwerks (and to answer Mark Kern's question, yes Ben designed both the UUC SS and the RE one). I even had one of the original BL/SS in my previous 328is. I've helped Ben out in the past with some product development/testing and he in turn has helped me out. Due primarily to our friendship and mutual assistance in the past, we worked something out to get his company name on my race car. (An OK picture is at: http://home.attbi.com/~jimbassett/IMG_4463.jpg). Cheers, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 KP - even with "sponsors" I'm still spending a LOT of my own money :-)
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. Big brake kits - from Bob Stommel
Top
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:27:09 -0500 From: Bob Stommel <rstommel@iquest.net> Subject: Big brake kits I found the recent discussion of "big brake kits" amusing. Of all the track-prepared E36 M3s I've owned, including an LTW, I never ran out of brakes with the stock parts - even on heavy braking tracks like Road America. Unless you're racing a highly modified car under race conditions, the stock E36 M3 brakes are more than sufficient. Spend your money on the 2-piece rotors, brake ducts, good track pads, and fresh brake fluid -- and leave the $2000 brake kits to the posers. Just my opinion... Bob Stommel Indianapolis
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. Re: [E36M3] re: big brake kits - from Chester Wong
Top
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:23:52 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] re: big brake kits > Ok then,exactly how is the strut bar unsafe? How many > people have complained about either design? Why not > address the safety issue towards TMS? Their kit is > IDENTICAL. Sorry, I didn't realize I had to make all the logical connections. You asked if I thought Rogue or TMS would ever sell anything unsafe. To date, I don't think Ben has sold anything that would impact safety with the exception of brakes. And I'm certainly not saying that they are unsafe. But if a SS fails...big deal...you're in limp mode or you can't move the car. If a strut brace fails...big deal. Exhaust fails? It's just loud. And with Wayne's comments, I guess he got the pedal feel back to where it's good now which is why we bled so many times. But I was insulted for bleeding the brakes many times. Anyway, my bringing up other issues was just to give background to skepticism when it comes to products sold by certain vendors. That's it. > I felt the Movit, TMS and ECIS pedal feel were all > very similar. That is why I thought it was a crock > when you said the pedal feel was way off. Again, the only time I tried the Rogue kit was when it was a bit mushy and Wayne wanted me to try out the OBDII cam kit. It was NYC stop and go traffic and trying to get the engine to go all the way to redline was quite a task. But then you have to mash the brakes and it felt strange. Wayne had some issues with the ABS system and took off the brakes for warranty work and then reinstalled. He said that the brakes were real scary. But that's probably from air in the system. I then installed my brakes and with the manual method, we got lazy and introduced air into the system. I rebled by just pressurizing the system and then doing the manual method. Rock solid. So I suggested the same to Wayne and we bled his brakes again. This time, a bunch of air came out. So I thought that for sure, the brakes would feel better. It did, but it was still a bit squishy. Wayne went to a driver school and came back and rebled the brakes and now he says that it's good. I haven't driven his car yet. But this whole process is from sometime mid last year to just a week ago. > Anyone who has been on this list or any of the > internet bulletin board for the past 2 years has > probably seen the "flip" performed by the amazing > Chester Wong. > > Originally, you are in the UUC camp talking about how > great their products are and how AA and others are > copy cats and make weak products in comparison. > Totally up their ass... > > Then, overnight, you are bashing Ben, UUC and now > Rogue. Not hard to figure out, Chester, that you have > issues with Ben. What happened, Ben didn't give you a > big enough discount on UUC parts? Well, put it to you this way. I was 22 when I first got my M3 and perhaps naive. I was one of the crowd that would hear say, "product X is awesome...get it." I'm certainly not proud of that. I bought some of their products and I thought they were good. But then problems started happening and I started seeing the oversights in their products design. Took said parts off my car and sold them. If all that happened was that, all would be fine. But that's not how things went and I won't bore everyone with the details. Let's just say that I'm more cautious now. > The time spent here bashing Ben might be better served > on a therapist's couch. Now is this really necessary? Chester ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/