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#1. [E36M3] Deal's Gap - spin - from Robert Liu
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:13:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Liu <bob_a_liu@yahoo.com> Subject: [E36M3] Deal's Gap - spin I was at Deal's Gap (US129 by NC/TN border) last weekend. Deal's Gap is a nice twisty mountain road, 11 miles long, 318 curves. The motorcycle riders love it. I was making a run through the gap when my radiator neck broke. It spilled coolant on my rear tires, and I ended up spinning and almost going off a cliff. There was a Z3 behind me with a camcorder. Unfortunately, the video isn't very clear with the amount of compression he used, but it's interesting nonetheless. http://www.altechcorp.com/Z3/Movies/Untitled.wmv So, for those that haven't done it, check your radiators often! My car had 162k miles on the original radiator before it broke. Bob ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Robert Liu bob_a_liu@yahoo.com ICQ# 22765210 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/
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#2. Da Lan hitch For Sale - from Rob Verenna
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:36:23 -0400 From: "Rob Verenna" <rob@willraceforbeer.com> Subject: Da Lan hitch For Sale With all the talk of little trailers on here recently, I thought someone might be interested in the Da'Lan hitch I pulled off the 325i I'm turning into a race car. $100 + shipping from 15217. - rob -->> FREE Perl CGI scripts add WEB ACCESS to your -->> POP E-Mail accounts! Download today!! http://www.adjeweb.com
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#3. Re: Eibach M3 Springs - from Ron Buchalski
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:52:53 +0000 From: "Ron Buchalski" <rbuchals@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Eibach M3 Springs Comparing this data to: http://www.bmw-m.net/techdata/spring.htm and http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_techtip/techtips/e36_m3_spring.htm (some of the same data) The front springs are moderately stiffer than stock and Dinan, but the rear springs are SIGNIFICANTLY stiffer than stock. Based on Eibach's statements about creating a spring set with proper front-rear balance, does this imply that the rear springs of a stock E36 M3 are way too soft? How do these spring rates compare to H&R OE Sport and Sport springs? -rb >Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:13:25 -0400 >From: David Ngo <dngo@commvault.com> >Subject: RE: [E36M3] Weekend report :) (GC coilover review, other stuff).. > .LONG > >Yes, this is exactly what it says on their web site. > >However, the representative that I spoke to yesterday afternoon in their >Irvine office said that their E36M3 springs are linear (he volunteered this >info without prompting) and even gave me spring rates: > >For the 3.2L cars, PN 2059.140: >F: 136lb/in R: 440lb/in > >For the 3.0L cars, PN 2041.140: >F: 122lb/in R: 440lb/in > >Regards, >Dave > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Deal's Gap - spin - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:04:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Deal's Gap - spin Glad you're alright! Shame on you for having such an old radiator and not replacing it sooner. Chester --- Robert Liu <bob_a_liu@yahoo.com> wrote: > So, for those that haven't done it, check your > radiators often! My car had 162k miles on the original > radiator before it broke. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: Eibach M3 Springs - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:20:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Eibach M3 Springs Well, there are a few things working here. First of all, a stiffer rear would give more oversteer...so it would make the car more neutral. Next, you have to think about how the springs are installed on the car. The front springs act along a path that leads to where the wheel is mounted. The rear spring is not...it's mounted more inboard. So...if say you had ride height adjusters, if you lower the front spring 1", you'll drop the front about 1". If you lower the rear spring 1/2", you'll drop the car about 1". See how that works? So...the rear wheels actually have more leverage on the spring. So an increase from 300#/inch to 440#/inch would be more like a delta of 70#/inch in the front. Since the front goes from ~95#/inch to 136#/inch, the Eibach kit is dialing in just a bit more neutralness. At least that's the way I sees it :) Chester --- Ron Buchalski <rbuchals@hotmail.com> wrote: > The front springs are moderately stiffer than stock and Dinan, but the rear > springs are SIGNIFICANTLY stiffer than stock. Based on Eibach's statements > about creating a spring set with proper front-rear balance, does this imply > that the rear springs of a stock E36 M3 are way too soft? ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/
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#6. Re:Racing shoes and gloves - from D Snyder
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:44:25 -0700 From: "D Snyder" <m3ltw@msn.com> Subject: Re:Racing shoes and gloves From: "Wayne Miller" <m3@waynemiller.com> > > Now that I am a good ways down the slippery slope on being addicted to > track, I have decided to purchase racing shoes and gloves before Watkins > Glen in May. Does anyone have any recommendations? Hmm...opinions? Never been short of opinions. > For gloves, I like these (but not in orange): I have Momo gloves, with external stitching and long cuffs. The external stitching is a personal preference which you either like or don't (and it does look a little funny). I find them more comfortable (no internal ridges) and the external seams appear to help with grip. For racing, the long cuff helps to protect your wrists, and would overlap with the suit. > I like the mid-tops for whatever reason. Some things I wouldn't trust to fit sight unseen (or sampled); helmets and shoes (gloves fit differently too). In my opinion, get shoes that fit "like a glove". You don't want any side-to-side play, and since you aren't going to do much walking in them, they can fit the length pretty close. But make sure you can lace them up tight, so they don't roll when you are heel & toe'ing. I have the Sparco Elite (a mid-top), and am very happy. I have size 12-narrow feet, so finding the right fit can be a challenge (kinda like my big head!) and I tried them all (at least all that Northstar Motorsports had). Dan
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#7. Re: Hoosier SM/BSP tire pressures - from Vern Anderson
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:29:44 -0400 From: "Vern Anderson" <vernon_anderson@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Hoosier SM/BSP tire pressures Rex, I run the same wheel/tire setup but with -3.25 in the front and -3.0 in the rear. I have had good luck with 32-34 front and 30-32 rear in normal conditions (dry and 50+ degrees). The 9" rims allow you to run much lower pressures than stock. I know of some M3 BSP people that have had success with really ultra-low pressures (22 lbs), but I've never tried it. With less front camber, you *may* want to have slightly higher front pressures, maybe 34-35, but I'm not sure. You can usually get quite a bit of rear camber with the stock adjustment; I can get a minimum of -1.8 and a maximum of -2.9. Vern -------------------- 10 -------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:56:59 -0700 From: Rex Tener <rex_tener@yahoo.com> Subject: Hoosier SM/BSP tire pressures I have just done the first round of modifications that moved my car into Street Mod/BSP in SCCA autocross. I am running 245/40-17 Hoosier A3S03's on 17x9 wheels with 2 degrees of camber in front and 1.5 degrees in the rear. I know my stock class tire pressures are way too high. Can anyone of the SM/BSP guys give me a good starting point for tire pressures? Thanks, -- Rex Tener rex_tener@yahoo.com 1996 BMW M3, SCCA SFR Solo II Street-Mod/BSP #173
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Weekend report :) (GC coilover review, other stuff)...LONG - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:48:16 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Weekend report :) (GC coilover review, other stuff)...LONG Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Chester, > > I hate to contradict Jay, but stock springs are most obviously progressive. > > Both in coil diameter and the winding radius (aka barrel shaped). > > I beg to differ over on this point. Yes, stock rear springs are barrel shaped, > but....the coil gets smaller in diameter and there's a certain amount of the > spring that gets compressed just to get to static ride height. Chester, Your above observation matches mine on the stock rear springs. Compressing the spring by hand and observing the perches' movement showed that the top coils compress long before the middles ones start to move. All of which serve to confirm that the springs are linear. > When I went to > the alignment shop, they had a Longacre spring dyno and we asked to test the > first spring Jay sent, the correct one and the stock one. We put the stock > rear spring in and compressed the spring to simulate compression for static > ride height, zero'ed the scale and compressed 1". The reading? 300 lbs. Chester, How far did you compress the stock spring before you started measuring its rate? When was the last time that spring dyno got calibrated? I'm not doubting your testimony, but would like to put in perspective with my own experiences. > We then compressed another inch. The reading? 604 lbs. So...yah...I > guess they are progressive...hahahaha. In conclusion, the stock rear > springs are 302#/inch. That would be 302 lbs. at what inch of compression? Obviously not the first one, as the rate of that first inch is around 50 lbs ;-) And not the one before or after the 302 lbs./inch reading, because the spring is progressive. Ahhh, the pain of measuring progressive springs! Anyone wants to guess which compression rates H&R publishes for their Stage 1-4 springs? > > Progressive springs are not the problem. > > Just about every stock spring on any car is progressive. Nonetheless all of > > them come with tuned suspensions that do not exhibit any bounciness. > > H&Rs are just too stiff for Koni SAs. Your shocks are under-damped on > > compression and that is something you can not rectify with rebound > > adjustment. > > I beg to differ here. Call up Eibach and ask them about their springs for the > M3. They'll confirm that they are linear and that the rates (for '96+) is > 136(front) and 440(rear). Why would I call Eibach to ask about BMW springs? Any way, we've just concurred that BMW rear springs are progressive. I submit to you that so are the fronts. If you don't believe me, just step on the front spring and observe that top/bottom perches move disproportionately to the middle ones. As in the middle coils provide more resistance to compression. As in the rate of the spring is progressive. Stop me when before this gets too annoying. > > If you look at a stock spring off of a '95M3 (the one where the coils are > > uniform in diameter), you'll see that the spacing between the coils is even. Sorry, not in my experience. > > Go to UUC's webpage for spring rates...the spring rate for the is around > > 95#/inch....through 4 inches of compression! I'd say that was pretty much > > linear. You mean the UUC readings that were taken by a miscalibrated spring dyno (by Rob's own admission)? > The problem is with progressive rate springs. What does compression have > anything to do with any of this? A higher compression rate in the shocks would > just give me a virtually stiffer spring, no? As I understand it, shocks only serve to dampen spring isolation. If the shocks are too long/short for a given spring and ride height, it would be attempting to compress/expand the spring at car's steady state. In that case the spring rate would effectively be softer/stiffer on compression, and reverse on rebound. I'll defer to someone with more suspension tuning experience to validate this. > How would you explain using 375#/inch front and 450#/inch rear linear Eibach > Racing Springs in my car with the Koni SAs and I have no bounciness? What is the length of Eibach's springs? It may well be that I'm confused and Koni SA's are too stiff (not too soft as I've previously stated) for stock springs. However, I do believe that stock springs are very much progressive. And if I read Chester's report on dyno-ing rear spring correctly, his observations support this as well. alex f
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Weekend report :) (GC coilover review, other stuff)...LONG - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:51:37 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Weekend report :) (GC coilover review, other stuff)...LONG "kit wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> wrote: > > > H&Rs are just too stiff for Koni SAs. Your shocks are under-damped on > > compression and that is something you can not rectify with rebound > > bzzzzt. wrong. The H&R sport springs are too SOFT for them. You end up > riding on the bumpstops the whole time, especially with Bilsteins. Kit, I don't think we can derive any conclusions about spring stiffness from the fact that Bilstein shocks are riding on the bumpstops. It's a well documented phenomenon that Bilstein shocks sit on bump stops at static ride height of even stock springs. Some say the shocks are too long, others that that's the way Bilstein wants you to drive. Either way, that is very much a Bilstein specific issue. My Koni SAs are nowhere near the bump stops with stock springs. I actually trimmed the stops 1" for good measure before installing H&R Stage 2/4 springs, but that was mostly a gesture of sympathy to my Bilstein friends. > The H&R coilovers are stiffer but ride A LOT better. Than your hypothesis is that some shocks (Bilstein? Koni SA? DA?) are over-dampened for H&R Sport (Stage 2) springs but are just about perfectly matched to H&R coilover (Stage 4) springs? Right? I'm not a suspension tuner, but consider this. TC Kline's TrackLine spring kit comes with H&R Stage 2 (Sport) front springs and Stage 4 (aka coil-over) rear springs. If the two (admittedly progressive) springs had significantly different rates, than either TC's TrackLine kit or your H&R coil-over kit would ride like crap. > The stock springs look progressive but the part that looks progressive gets > coil bound as soon as you put weight onto the car. It really is there just > to keep the spring in place during full extension of the suspension. My understand of progressive springs is that they stay progressive throughout the compression range. But I could be wrong on that (see the amateur suspension tinkerer disclaimer above). alex f
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#10. Rear seatbelt won't retract: how to fix? - from Marc.S.Edwards@QuestDiagnostics.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:11:27 -0700 From: Marc.S.Edwards@QuestDiagnostics.com Subject: Rear seatbelt won't retract: how to fix? All; One of my rear seatbelts in my car won't retract fully into the unit. Still needs about 6-8 inches to retract into the reel. I've pulled on it a bit now and then in the hope that it will live again to no avail. Is there something that I can do to fix this thing and what is it that I must do? Or must I purchase a new one and install? Thanks Marc 95M3CSL Bentley manual not handy....
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#11. Re: [E36M3] Weekend report :) (GC coilover review, other stuff)...LONG - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:14:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Weekend report :) (GC coilover review, other stuff)...LONG > Why would I call Eibach to ask about BMW springs? > Any way, we've just concurred that BMW rear springs are progressive. > I submit to you that so are the fronts. If you don't believe me, just step > on the front spring and observe that top/bottom perches move > disproportionately to the middle ones. > As in the middle coils provide more resistance to compression. As in the > rate of the spring is progressive. Stop me when before this gets too > annoying. How have we concurred that the BMW rear springs are progressive? I was joking when I said that the rears were progressive when it went from 300# for the first inch of displacement to #605 for the second inch of displacement. The 605# figure is additive, so the spring rate is about 302#/inch. Jim posted the actual numbers we measured. What does calibration have to do with this? I'm not blue-printing the spring and I just want some basic numbers. I didn't even take multiple measurements which one would do to get standard deviations, etc. If a spring were truly progressive, it wouldn't just rise 5 additional pounds during the next inch of travel. To me, saying that the rear spring is linear with a rate of about 300#/inch is good. I said to call up Eibach and ask them about the spring kit they offer for an M3 not about BMW springs. > You mean the UUC readings that were taken by a miscalibrated spring dyno > (by Rob's own admission)? It's not very difficult to use a spring dyno. I guess if you were to try to get ultra precise measurements, etc...but we were just trying to get a rough estimate. As a sidenote, I spring dyno'ed the 450#/inch ERS spring. At one inch of displacement, the scale measured 455# or something like that. I think Longacre's website says something about a variance that's within production specs for springs anyway. > It may well be that I'm confused and Koni SA's are too stiff (not too soft > as I've previously stated) for stock springs. > However, I do believe that stock springs are very much progressive. And if > I read Chester's report on dyno-ing rear spring correctly, his observations > support this as well. My report in no way supported that the rear springs are progressive but actually the opposite. Chester ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/