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#1. Re: Eibach M3 Springs - from Berney, Butch
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:00:28 -0700 From: "Berney, Butch" <butch.berney@lamrc.com> Subject: Re: Eibach M3 Springs Actually on a percentage basis, the increase in spring stiffness, is almost the same for the front and the rear (about 30%). Don't forget that the rear spring does not act as directly on the wheel as the front one. Butch ---------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:52:53 +0000 From: "Ron Buchalski" <rbuchals@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Eibach M3 Springs The front springs are moderately stiffer than stock and Dinan, but the rear springs are SIGNIFICANTLY stiffer than stock. <snip>
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#2. Re: Rear wheel lifting during autox - from fesler@nsc.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:55:22 -0700 From: fesler@nsc.com Subject: Re: Rear wheel lifting during autox > #1. Re: Rear wheel lifting during autox - from Ron Katona > Top > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:45:20 -0400 > From: Ron Katona <rkatona@bellatlantic.net> > Subject: Re: Rear wheel lifting during autox I'm inclined to say > loosen up the rear sway bar, but how's the car handling? Like Chris > said, if it's doing something bad then why change it? OTOH, you might > find a softer rear setup (springs and/or sway bar) helps you come out > of corners much better. A lot of people fight the understeer boogey > man in the E36 to the point of giving up good mid corner and corner > exit balance. The net result is a great feeling car that turns in like > all get out, but is not fast. How's the car on corner exit under > power? How are your times compared to similarly prepped M3s? -- Ron > Katona I thought I would chime in here. I am not especially fast but I run a similar setup and lift both entering (rear wheel) and exiting (front wheel). I have 235s front and back stock springs (recently upgraded to koni SA) and aftermarket sway bars. I run the bars full stiff rear and 2/3 stiff front. The car is very neutral at slow to medium speeds tending a bit towards oversteer. Not really happy with high speed performance but I _am_ toed out up front. Corner exit is excellent where I can really mash the gas at the apex while unwinding the wheel. I actually think that being closer to oversteer helps here because you have less steering input wound in (due to reduced understeer) as you begin to apply throttle (but then again what do I know). I actually liked the corner exit better before I added the new shocks and am planning to implement chesters RSMs so I can spend some time dialing in the rear rebound. On a side note. Front roll stiffness really helps reduce oversteer on our cars due to the difference in the front and rear camber curves. So try stiffening the front sway bar and see if that helps. I was full stiff rear soft front and not happy with the understeer. 2 notches stiffer in the front dramatically helped reduce the understeer. Cheers, Eric
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Racing shoes and gloves - from Carey Probst
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:34:20 -0400 From: "Carey Probst" <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Racing shoes and gloves I don't know how many people are on this list but bet you'll get a different opinion from just about everybody. I really like the Piloti shoes as an occasional track junkie. They aren't as thin as the more professional style shoes and I find them quite comfortable to run around in when not on the track. Gloves are really a matter of fit and comfort. My only real suggestion there is a contrasting color to the car to make point bys easier to see. I like black against my red car. Mine are Simpson. Carey > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Miller [mailto:m3@waynemiller.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:35 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [E36M3] Racing shoes and gloves > > > Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:27:42 -0400 > From: "Wayne Miller" <m3@waynemiller.com> > Subject: Racing shoes and gloves > > Now that I am a good ways down the slippery slope on being addicted to > track, I have decided to purchase racing shoes and gloves before Watkins > Glen in May. Does anyone have any recommendations? > > For gloves, I like these (but not in orange): > http://www.randys-racemart.com/gf5glove.html > But there are so many choices here that I had second thoughts: > https://www.ogracing.com/ogshell/loadpage.pl?id+catalog.html <- click on > the Gloves link on the left > > For shoes, I was looking at these 2 pages: > http://www.racerwholesale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Co > de=RW&Product_Code=MAT0235&Category_Code=Racing+Boots > https://www.ogracing.com/ogshell/loadpage.pl?id+catalog.html <- click on > the shoes page on the left > I like the mid-tops for whatever reason. > > Thoughts? Opinions? > > Thanks, > > -Wayne > > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > >
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#4. RE: [E36M3] Racing shoes and gloves - from Mel Silva
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:34:53 -0500 From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Racing shoes and gloves Wayne, This may have been said already, but don't pooh-pooh the orange. When you are trying to communicate hand signals to other drivers, you'll find the orange color catches their attention better. No, I'm not referring to "flying the bird" either. If there is a problem ahead of you and you need to tell the drivers behind you that you are slowing down or doing something different than they might expect. Waving that bright orange glove communicates much better than a black or white glove. Just my 2 cents Mel -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Miller [mailto:m3@waynemiller.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 9:35 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Racing shoes and gloves Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:27:42 -0400 From: "Wayne Miller" <m3@waynemiller.com> Subject: Racing shoes and gloves Now that I am a good ways down the slippery slope on being addicted to track, I have decided to purchase racing shoes and gloves before Watkins Glen in May. Does anyone have any recommendations? For gloves, I like these (but not in orange): http://www.randys-racemart.com/gf5glove.html But there are so many choices here that I had second thoughts: https://www.ogracing.com/ogshell/loadpage.pl?id+catalog.html <- click on the Gloves link on the left For shoes, I was looking at these 2 pages: http://www.racerwholesale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Co de=RW&Product_Code=MAT0235&Category_Code=Racing+Boots https://www.ogracing.com/ogshell/loadpage.pl?id+catalog.html <- click on the shoes page on the left I like the mid-tops for whatever reason. Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks, -Wayne ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. *************************************************************
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#5. Speeding Ticket Advice? - from Peter Guagenti
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:46:41 -0700 From: Peter Guagenti <peter@guagenti.com> Subject: Speeding Ticket Advice? I got a ticket on the 12th -- radar recorded me at 68 in a 40. This is the first time I got a notice that says "Mandatory Appearance", so I'm a little freaked out. Anyone know of a good traffic attorney in the SF Bay Area? Can a lawyer help me get this plead down to something reasonable? I'm afraid that the mandatory appearance means bad things... am I wrong? Any advice would be appreciated. -peterg
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#6. Who Cares about spring rate linearity in rebound - from The Buch
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:07:37 -0700 From: The Buch <the_buch@telus.net> Subject: Who Cares about spring rate linearity in rebound Would it be fair to say that for a given bump, requiring compression of the suspension to absorb the energy transmitted from the road into the suspension, that every spring will have the same amount of potential energy stored in it in the compressed state (yes this ignores any differences in the energy losses to the compression dampening of differing struts or shocks)? This energy now needs to be reconverted back into kinetic energy on rebound, so that as the suspension extends through equilibrium the upward velocity of the car would be identical for progressive or linear springs of any rate (again assuming similar energy absorption in rebound dampening). Yes the 'feel' might be slightly different because the initial acceleration would be higher in a progressive spring and then decrease - is this the sensation of bounciness that Chester refers to? But I hypothesize that the performance of the suspension in managing weight transfers created by relative corner velocities of the car is relatively similar, and that therefore more performance gain might be available through the dampening of the shocks and struts than through the springs?? On a personal note, I really like the connected feel I am getting with the nominal progressiveness of the H&R OEs. I have specifically chosen not to overdampen this affect (40% up from full soft on the Koni SAs back and front), mostly because I want a similar progression feel on the compression side of the equation. The other lesson I have learned is that you need to give a refinement like this some time - my Streetline suspension continues to settle in, and I appreciate it's subtleties relative to stock more every 1,000miles. Just another view, Doug
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#7. H&R Sport Spring Rate? - from Chris Teague
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:50:58 -0700 From: "Chris Teague" <cteague@cox.net> Subject: H&R Sport Spring Rate? Since we are comparing spring rates and progressive vs. non-progressive, anyone have any idea what the spring rate(s) are for the H&R sports as compared to stock and Eibach? Are they really progressive in the compression range used on the M3? Chris 97 M3/4 with the H&R Sports/Eibach/Koni DA's
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Who Cares about spring rate linearity in rebound - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:56:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Who Cares about spring rate linearity in rebound --- The Buch <the_buch@telus.net> wrote: > Would it be fair to say that for a given bump, requiring compression of > the suspension to absorb the energy transmitted from the road into the > suspension, that every spring will have the same amount of potential > energy stored in it in the compressed state (yes this ignores any > differences in the energy losses to the compression dampening of > differing struts or shocks)? This energy now needs to be reconverted > back into kinetic energy on rebound, so that as the suspension extends > through equilibrium the upward velocity of the car would be identical > for progressive or linear springs of any rate (again assuming similar > energy absorption in rebound dampening). Yes the 'feel' might be > slightly different because the initial acceleration would be higher in a > progressive spring and then decrease - is this the sensation of > bounciness that Chester refers to? But I hypothesize that the > performance of the suspension in managing weight transfers created by This will probably be the last time I comment on this as I'm not out to convince the world... But...yes, total energy stored would be the same for a given bump; however, for the same bump, the spring will compress more for the linear rate spring than the progressive rate spring. Just keep F = kx in your head. If k is a function of x, then you can subsitute k back into the equation and you'll get something definitely not linear. Anyway, in your given scenario, yes, the initial force the spring is exerting back onto the rebound part of the dampener is greater for the same displacement of the spring. Force is also related to acceleration, right? So...if you have your dampeners tuned (rebound-wise) so that it can handle the small, choppy bumps with ease, when you compress the suspension past the small amplitude (think big bump), the force is much greater for a progressive spring. This returning force can accelerate the assembly past the static ride height and will also feel like the wheel is jumping up. Now let's say you tune the rebound so that the big bumps don't do this. Well, now on the small undulations, your suspension will be sluggish....so you'll feel the slight bounciness as well. At any rate, it is my belief that going with a progressive rate spring..you need to compromise on the settings. To me, this compromise is unnecessary since one can go with linear rate springs and tune the shock to the spring. Not sure why people would consider progressive rate springs unless it's for the sole purpose to prevent bottoming out a suspension if you lower the car. Also, the theory sounds good...for the first initial displacement, the spring rate is light, but when you're cornering and pass the small displacement, the spring magically stiffens up and offers better roll resistance. Sounds good on paper, but you most likely need a dampener that can match this varying spring rate. Just my $.02 Chester ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Weekend report :) - from donna seeley
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:56:06 -0700 From: donna seeley <dlseeley@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Weekend report :) On 4/23/02 9:35 AM, "Chester Wong" <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > > The second day didn't prove as productive. I didn't like the instructor's > teaching style and it was more or less his way or no way at all :( He's a > very good driver and I'm sure 10 years of refining technique allows one to > look so far ahead (he had me trying to look for the track-out cone before I > was even at the turn in area), but it wasn't mixing with my driving style. LOL! You should go out with Sherman Koo, the master of teaching 'looking so far ahead.' My favorite example is at Sears Point... I turned in at 4 and he immediately said, "Ok, we're done with 4 (!), there's nothing much to do in 5 (?!), so start thinking about the apex of the Carousel." (!?!) Eventually he actually got me doing it, but the first time I started laughing so hard I almost gave us something to do in 5. -- Donna
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#10. Re:e36m3,look,my beautiful girl friend - from john_stoj
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Date: 25 Apr 2002 04:42:44 -0500 From: john_stoj <john_stoj@excite.com> Subject: Re:e36m3,look,my beautiful girl friend <HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY> <iframe src=3Dcid:B5UX808AB3c5 height=3D0 width=3D0> </iframe> <FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>