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#1. Re: RE: [E36M3] Rogue Eng. Big Brake pad replacement? - from gerry@parallel-mkt.com
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 8:28:18 -0400 From: <gerry@parallel-mkt.com> Subject: Re: RE: [E36M3] Rogue Eng. Big Brake pad replacement? Jason / Mel, Sorry for the quick one dimensional answer that deserved a multi-dimensional answer. So here goes... Assuming that the Brake Kit was installed and bled properly and the existing cooling ducts are still functional, Jason's problem probably is a function of overuse, and pad and brake fluid choices. I track my M3 alot each year with stock calipers, PF97s and AP Racing 6.0 fluid and have discovered that the combination is terrific on both fast sweeping and short tight tracks. The differences between 4.0, 5.1 and 6.0 spec brake fliud is significant. Once I upgraded to the 6.0, my need to bleed my brakes every 4 to 5 track days was gone. Also, once I upgraded from the KFP Golds (Cool Wileys) to the PF90 / PF97s, I don't run out of brakes easily. I have never used the Hawks that Jason is using so I have no comparison. I would assume that Rogue would not mate an inadequate pad (street use only) with their kit because why buy a big brake kit for street use. Additional cooling would help. The last item is of course brake technique. In short as I have seen over time on this list, the answer is instruction and practise, practise, practise. Gerry > > From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> > Date: 2002/05/08 Wed PM 11:58:32 EDT > To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Rogue Eng. Big Brake pad replacement? > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:55:38 -0500 > From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Rogue Eng. Big Brake pad replacement? > > > I hate to come off like a know-it-all pompous donkey, but brake systems I have studied. A lot. I'm sorry Gerry, but the only kind > of brake fade you get from "low spec" fluid is when it boils. Jason has already mentioned that he has no cooling ducts to his > brakes. Since brakes work by replacing kinetic energy with heat, the more heat you can dissipate (or absorb), the faster you can > stop. The big brake kits allow you to absorb more heat into the system allowing you to stop fast more often. This works great if > you also have a method to remove that heat between the braking zones. If not, you glaze pads, boil fluid and eventually melt the > piston seals. I would recommend to Jason that his next upgrade be brake ducts of some sort. I have experimented with NACA ducts, > silicone aircraft tubing and dryer vent tubing until I found what worked for me. Some people on this list have replaced their fog > lights with prefab brake duct kits. This sounds like a great idea. Oh, and one more thing for Jason. Those higher temp pads like > the Hawk blue's also vent extremely hot bits of metal and carbon which others on the list have had loads of fun trying to pick from > their very expensive wheels. Ducts are cheap, and worth every penny on a track car. > > I know all of these things from first hand experience. I have received the meatball flag for brakes on fire, boiled brake fluid all > over my paint, plowed the field at Thunderhill and got stuck in the gravel at Laguna Seca. > > For those that need to brush up on the basics, I recommend you read http://www.howstuffworks.com/category.htm?cat=Brake > I also recommend "Brake Systems" by Marvigian and Carley > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557882819/qid=1020916225/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/102-2618928-1986546 > > I hope this helps and doesn't irritate anyone, > > Mel > 97 M3/4 (never tracked) > sold my track car a year ago > > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:11:39 -0400 > From: "Gerald Low" <gerry@parallel-mkt.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rogue Eng. Big Brake pad replacement? > > Jason, > What kind of brake fluid are you using with your Rogue Big Brake Kit? Low > spec fluid will give you brake fade. > Gerry > > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > >
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#2. Re: Brakes - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:56:40 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Brakes on 5/9/02 6:28 AM, "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> wrote: > I hate to come off like a know-it-all pompous donkey <snip> > Ducts are cheap, and worth every penny on a track car And at the risk of appearing to be an ass's horse, let me second that. Bimmerworld makes an excellent duct kit, or else it's possible to come up with home-brewed versions for those so inclined. This is my third season with the Bimmerowrld kit and it just plain works well. Neil 96 M3
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#3. Euro Ellipsoid's by INPRO - from mkelley
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:00:10 -0700 (PDT) From: mkelley <mkelley@nc.rr.com> Subject: Euro Ellipsoid's by INPRO Anyone have any experience or informed opinions about the Ellipsoid headlight with Angel Eyes that are made by INPRO? These assemblies are starting to show up on eBay at very attractive prices ($359 buy-it-now) but the list has swayed to ZKW in the past for quality, aesthetics, availability of replacement glass covers, etc.. Thanks, Mike 98M3C
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Euro Ellipsoid's by INPRO - from Jason Jensen
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:24:16 -0400 From: "Jason Jensen" <jasonjensen75@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Euro Ellipsoid's by INPRO There are a couple issues with the INPROs.... 1 - Made in Taiwan...I won't say their quality isn't up to snuff as I haven't physically help them, but so far Taiwan's track record for BMW lighting isn't all that great. 2 - The Inpro angel eyes are kind of odd looking compared to the stock E39's. Where the E39s cut off at the 11 and 1 o'clock positions, the Inpros look like a complete circle w/ the top squished. If you look at them side by side the difference is noticeable. Ultimately it comes down to taste and $$. Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: "mkelley" <mkelley@nc.rr.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 9:58 AM Subject: [E36M3] Euro Ellipsoid's by INPRO > Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:00:10 -0700 (PDT) > From: mkelley <mkelley@nc.rr.com> > Subject: Euro Ellipsoid's by INPRO > > Anyone have any experience or informed opinions about the Ellipsoid > headlight with Angel Eyes that are made by INPRO? These assemblies are > starting to show up on eBay at very attractive prices ($359 buy-it-now) but > the list has swayed to ZKW in the past for quality, aesthetics, availability > of replacement glass covers, etc.. > Thanks, Mike > 98M3C > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > >
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#5. Re: Redline to Mobil One - from mkelley
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:54:17 -0700 (PDT) From: mkelley <mkelley@nc.rr.com> Subject: Re: Redline to Mobil One Jeff, I also switched from Redline MTL (tried D4 too) and had good results with the same problem by switching to Mobile One ATF, also helped greatly reduce effort into 2nd gear and 1st at dead stop. FWIW, the "instant" benefits seen at the time of the fluid change have now degraded after @9K miles and I'm ready to begin replacing the Mobile One ATF as a regular part of Insp 1&2 maintenance. Mike 98M3C >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:24:50 -0500 >From: "Jeff A" <aabel@austin.rr.com> >Subject: Redline to Mobil One > >Just a quick post to the list: > >Been having problems with a 'sticky' 3rd gear, and have been using Redline >ATF for about a year. I drained it last night in favor of Mobil One ATF. > >Sticky 3rd is gone, for the most part. Couldn't be happier. The redline >fluid had been changed muliple times over the last year, too, so it was not >an issue of old fluid. > >Jeff
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#6. Pads and Rotors R&R this weekend - from mkelley
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:49:31 -0700 (PDT) From: mkelley <mkelley@nc.rr.com> Subject: Pads and Rotors R&R this weekend Just looking for some last minute advice...have parts in hand and all tools and supplies (I think) to R&R rotors (Brembo front, factory rear(ATE?) and pads (Hawk HPS) plus 2 liters ATE Blue for fluid flush. I've read various web tech write-ups (ie Racepad, TCKline, etc), have a Bentley's manual, and I think I'm ready. Any last minute BTDT, PITA-avoidance advice would be greatly appreciated....like "don't worry about checking rotors for run-out" or "be sure to check run-out", etc. Thanks in advance. Mike 98M3C
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Pads and Rotors R&R this weekend - from matthew c. mead
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 12:51:55 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" <mmead-bmw@goof.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Pads and Rotors R&R this weekend On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 11:48:34AM -0500, mkelley wrote: > Just looking for some last minute advice...have parts in hand and all tools > and supplies (I think) to R&R rotors (Brembo front, factory rear(ATE?) and > pads (Hawk HPS) plus 2 liters ATE Blue for fluid flush. I've read various > web tech write-ups (ie Racepad, TCKline, etc), have a Bentley's manual, and > I think I'm ready. Any last minute BTDT, PITA-avoidance advice would be > greatly appreciated....like "don't worry about checking rotors for run-out" > or "be sure to check run-out", etc. Thanks in advance. Be sure to release the parking brake when removing the rear rotors. Heh. -matt -- matthew c. mead http://www.goof.com/~mmead/
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#8. Re: RE: [E36M3] Rogue Eng. Big Brake pad replacement? - from Jason Sarich
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:02:21 -0700 From: "Jason Sarich" <sarich_m3@prontomail.com> Subject: Re: RE: [E36M3] Rogue Eng. Big Brake pad replacement? Thanks for the info Mel. I appreciate it. Yeah, I think if I had to do it all over again, I would have first tried the brake ducts and the Hawk Blue pads on my stock brakes, then if that wasn't working for me, I would have gone with the Rogue kit. OH, and the GREAT news! Ben Liaw at Rogue contacting his vendors and actually found that Hawk DOES have an HP+ for the rogue kit! He is getting them for me as I type! I tell you, Ben is truly fantastic at customer service and has gone WELL out of the way for me in particular. If any of you are interested in ANY Rogue Engineering product and are wondering about the customer service...go with Rogue, you wont be sorry. Thanks, Jason Sarich Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:55:38 -0500 From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Rogue Eng. Big Brake pad replacement? I hate to come off like a know-it-all pompous donkey, but brake systems I have studied. A lot. I'm sorry Gerry, but the only kind of brake fade you get from "low spec" fluid is when it boils. Jason has already mentioned that he has no cooling ducts to his brakes. Since brakes work by replacing kinetic energy with heat, the more heat you can dissipate (or absorb), the faster you can stop. The big brake kits allow you to absorb more heat into the system allowing you to stop fast more often. This works great if you also have a method to remove that heat between the braking zones. If not, you glaze pads, boil fluid and eventually melt the piston seals. I would recommend to Jason that his next upgrade be brake ducts of some sort. I have experimented with NACA ducts, silicone aircraft tubing and dryer vent tubing until I found what worked for me. Some people on this list have replaced their fog lights with prefab brake duct kits. This sounds like a great idea. Oh, and one more thing for Jason. Those higher temp pads like the Hawk blue's also vent extremely hot bits of metal and carbon which others on the list have had loads of fun trying to pick from their very expensive wheels. Ducts are cheap, and worth every penny on a track car. I know all of these things from first hand experience. I have received the meatball flag for brakes on fire, boiled brake fluid all over my paint, plowed the field at Thunderhill and got stuck in the gravel at Laguna Seca. For those that need to brush up on the basics, I recommend you read http://www.howstuffworks.com/category.htm?cat=Brake I also recommend "Brake Systems" by Marvigian and Carley http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557882819/qid=102091 6225/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/102-2618928-1986546 I hope this helps and doesn't irritate anyone, Mel 97 M3/4 (never tracked) sold my track car a year ago ______________________________________________________________ Get Your Free E-mail at http://www.prontomail.com
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#9. Warranty Gold experiences - from Michael Turgeon
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Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:05:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Turgeon <turgeon1@yahoo.com> Subject: Warranty Gold experiences Gruppe: Please forward any experiences you have had with the above aftermarket warranty company, good, bad or indifferent. I have purchased a Ford Expedition and would also be interested in Ford dealers acceptance of this warranty program. Thanks, Mike 95 M3 Avus I-Stock...soon __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Pads and Rotors R&R this weekend - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 11:26:51 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Pads and Rotors R&R this weekend At 09:58 AM 5/9/02, matthew c. mead wrote: >On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 11:48:34AM -0500, mkelley wrote: > > Just looking for some last minute advice...have parts in hand and all tools > > and supplies (I think) to R&R rotors (Brembo front, factory rear(ATE?) and > > pads (Hawk HPS) plus 2 liters ATE Blue for fluid flush. I've read various > > web tech write-ups (ie Racepad, TCKline, etc), have a Bentley's > manual, and > > I think I'm ready. Any last minute BTDT, PITA-avoidance advice would be > > greatly appreciated....like "don't worry about checking rotors for run-out" > > or "be sure to check run-out", etc. Thanks in advance. > >Be sure to release the parking brake when removing the rear >rotors. Damn it, you beat me to it :-) Also, if the rotors haven't been changed for a while, have a dead-blow hammer or similar handy. Chances are the rotors will need a few whacks to get off (geez, I didn't just write that, did I? Ugh. :-)). Not that there's anything wrong with that <g>. Before installing the new rotors, apply some anti-seize to the hub. My 2 cents, Jim Bassett