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#1. Re: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure - from Jeff A
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:15:57 -0500 From: "Jeff A" <aabel@austin.rr.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure Based on the responses on bimmerforums, and data that Jim has been able to gather from his local shop, Bobby Archer in Dallas, several engine builders, and a shop that specializes in prepping E36 cars for SCCA racing, this issue is not limited to track driven cars. Your explanation as to the origin of the problem is but one that has been proffered as of late, and is the word from a great indy shop close to me and from Turner. However, it is not the only explanation. Others include lack of treadlock on the shaft, improper tq from the factory, bouncing off the rev limiter, loose chain (in combination with the above), use of UDPs or ltw flys, and some others that I cannot remember. http://64.119.165.48/forum/showthread.php?s=8aff9f21e940430b5ca924c9447732cb &threadid=33663 http://64.119.165.48/forum/showthread.php?s=4c1df147b7f4207adf7afc36f74ff620 &threadid=34242 Jeff 97 M3/4 (hopefully remaining intact) ----- Original Message ----- From: <RFKoby@aol.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:03 AM Subject: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure > Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:58:52 -0400 > From: RFKoby@aol.com > Subject: RE: catastrophic engine failure > > this engine failure has EVERYTHING > to do with taking your car to the track, or autoX. > But more so, when was the last time > you spun out and stalled the engine?? > > anytime the car spins and stalls the engine, > if you do not put both feet in (clutch and brake), > you have the possibility of rotating the > engine backwards at speed.... > > as you stated, there is nothing to keep > the nut from coming off of the oil pump gear. > If you spin the engine backwards, > this nut will loosen and unthread itself. > > As long as you do not spin the engine backwards > there is no problem with the nut and oil pump. > Under normal conditions, the engine turning > in the correct direction will keep this nut tight > > > > Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:17:39 -0500 > > From: "M-Power" <M-Power@austin.rr.com> > > Subject: Catastrophic Engine Failure > > > > Memorial Day Weekend I had a catastrophic loss of oil pressure that > > completely destroyed the engine in my 1999 M3 with only 57K-58K miles. BMW > > has refused to be any help with this design flaw! I have to replace the > > engine! > > > > The nut that holds the gear to the oil pump came off. This caused the gear > > to come off; therefore there was a complete loss of oil pressure. This is a > > design flaw that all of you need to be aware of! The nut does NOT have > > anything to stop it from coming loose and falling off. The nut needs to be > > torqued correctly, lock tight applied and safety wire attached. > > > > This is a more common failure than most people or BMW are willing to admit. > > Every engine tuner I have talked with knows of this problem and builds their > > engines accordingly. Bobby Archer who has my car in Fort Worth, diagnosed > > the problem at the track before he tore the engine apart at his shop last > > week. He had already seen several of these failures. He was also telling me > > that all of the M3s that originally failed in the Speedvision Challenge > > Series were due to > > this failure. > > > > This failure has nothing to do with taking your car to the track. There have > > been many instances of cars that have had this failure and never taken their > > cars to the track. > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > >
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#2. RE: catastrophic engine failure - from M-Power
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:31:42 -0500 From: "M-Power" <M-Power@austin.rr.com> Subject: RE: catastrophic engine failure No it does not have to do with taking the car to the track! Approximated 3/4 of the people that have had this problem NEVER took their cars to the track or a AutoX! There are several things I know of that can cause the nut to come loose. One is if you spin the car and don't put it in neutral, also the rev-limiter stops the flow of fuel, this places a large torque on the crank shaft that can loosen the nut, plus it has been seen that the nut was originally not torqued correctly at the factory! I'm sure there are more reasons we could find. This all points to a TERRIBLE design that BMW refuses to acknowledge! -----Original Message----- From: RFKoby@aol.com [mailto:RFKoby@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 07:59 To: e36m3@bmw-m.net; M-power@austin.rr.com Subject: RE: catastrophic engine failure this engine failure has EVERYTHING to do with taking your car to the track, or autoX. But more so, when was the last time you spun out and stalled the engine?? anytime the car spins and stalls the engine, if you do not put both feet in (clutch and brake), you have the possibility of rotating the engine backwards at speed.... as you stated, there is nothing to keep the nut from coming off of the oil pump gear. If you spin the engine backwards, this nut will loosen and unthread itself. As long as you do not spin the engine backwards there is no problem with the nut and oil pump. Under normal conditions, the engine turning in the correct direction will keep this nut tight
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#3. Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps - from Neil Maller
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:38:35 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps on 6/5/02 8:13 AM, Chris Papademetrious <chrispy@ieee.org> wrote: > My original factory pump was working fine, and we just replaced it as > preventative maintenance. I wonder if that was a wise thing to do after all? Since you have a new water pump, odds are that your overheating is due to another factor. A very common cause on our cars is thermostat failure. Good news: if that's it, the thermostat is cheap and easy to replace. Bad news: by continuing to run your car in its overheated condition you've significantly increased the likelihood of head gasket problems, maybe sooner, maybe later. Neil 96 M3
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#4. WTB - Staggered Contour Wheels - from Chuck Hanson
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:46:09 -0600 From: Chuck Hanson <chuckh@dpsabq.com> Subject: WTB - Staggered Contour Wheels Okay, one last attempt before I bite the bullet and buy something else. I'm looking for a set of 7.5"/8.5" Contour wheels. They wouldn't need to be perfect, but since they would be the everyday wheels on my M3/4, I want a set that is straight and look pretty good. Anyone? Chuck Hanson '97 M3/4 Albuquerque, NM
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure - from Jason Jensen
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:52:42 -0400 From: "Jason Jensen" <jasonjensen75@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure I can only tell you what I experienced, and since the car was still under warranty the dealer did all the work. I made a "spirited" run up the canyon with my wife so it wasn't anything too crazy, passing one decent pot holes along the way. Once I got to the top of the canyon, I pulled off to the side to take a few pics and noticed the oil light was coming on at idle now. Obviously it freaked me out, so I killed the engine hopped out and checked the oil. One quart overfilled. I started it back up, fully planning on killing it immediately if the light stayed on. (I was 30 miles from civilization with my wife at dusk, calling a tow-truck wasn't in the cards yet). Started her up, light came on and went off as it normally does in a startup but as soon as the idle settled, the light came back on.I blipped the throttle, light goes off...So off we went...I kept the rpms up, and by the time I got to the bottom of the canyon everything was fine, no light at idle. I called up the dealer an made an appointment, explained everything that happened, an they seemed to think it wasn't a problem so I kept driving until my appointment (Approx. 2-weeks later). I never saw the light again until I ran the engine hard, got her good n warm, and then at idle the light would come on. Once she cooled down everything was fine. Took her into the dealer, they worked on it for a couple of days, and fixed a leaky oil pressure sender. Problem returns only 5 miles down the road but now its worse. Doesn't matter what temp the engine it at, if its idling the oil pressure light it on. Who knows what they did, but it was getting worse. Gave the car back to them, a week later I have a new oil pump. The tech said there was a bolt on the oil pump that was loose, and when the engine got very hot it made the situation worse causing the pump to fail at low rpms. I found out later they were also trying to diagnose any bearing damage. WONDERFUL!! You betchya I have an extended warranty now.. Some background info: '98 M3/4 w/ 45k on it at the time, never tracked or modified, never killed or stalled, and never spun. Possible the pot hole I hit had something to do with it?? Jason P.S. - You'll probably find this story on bf.com and roadfly as well...I've recounted it a number of times. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reid Conti" <reid@conti.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure > Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:35:36 -0700 > From: Reid Conti <reid@conti.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure > Are there symptoms?
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#6. Re: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure - from NickG
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:57:35 -0400 From: "NickG" <nick@tech-nick.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure I don't know about the rest of the folks on this list, but I have a hard time believing posts where the sender makes inflammatory remarks and then doesn't sign his/her name. Every post on this issue by the original sender (M-Power) lacks a name. Not very credible if you ask me. M-Power: why don't you sign your name with your posts? Are you concerned that what you're saying may be untrue (I honestly don't know if it's true or not) and leaves you susceptible to legal action by BMW? Nick > Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:31:42 -0500 > From: "M-Power" <M-Power@austin.rr.com> > Subject: RE: catastrophic engine failure > > No it does not have to do with taking the car to the track! Approximated 3/4 > of the people that have had this problem NEVER took their cars to the track > or a AutoX! > > There are several things I know of that can cause the nut to come loose. One > is if you spin the car and don't put it in neutral, also the rev-limiter > stops the flow of fuel, this places a large torque on the crank shaft that > can loosen the nut, plus it has been seen that the nut was originally not > torqued correctly at the factory! > > I'm sure there are more reasons we could find. This all points to a TERRIBLE > design that BMW refuses to acknowledge!
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#7. WTB E36 M3 Coupe? - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:13:32 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: WTB E36 M3 Coupe? >> Posting for a friend who is interested in buying a "car that is as cool" as >> mine. He is looking for an E36 M3 Coupe in the Houston area. Does anyone >> have any leads I can forward to him. Well, if it has to be as cool as yours, I saw a E36 M3 Byzantine (Copper color) in Maryland (IIRC) advertised in Autoweek. The price was reasonable for the mileage IIRC. I know it's not Houston but at least its as "cool". Later, Rich
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#8. having a problem - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:23:07 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: having a problem >> hello M3ers i have a 99 black/black M3 coup and i recently needed new front >> and rear brakes and rotors so i did an upgrade the bavauto ultimate front >> rotors they are cross drilled and slotted and i just got cross drilled for >> the rear but i was only able to put the fronts on for now the rears have not >> arrived yet Well, I am not sure I would have considered this an upgrade unless you like the look and this look is important to you ;-) What does this cost? I would think you could even get Euro floating rotors with OE rear rotors for nearly the same cost but they wouldn't have the fancy slots and holes. >> and it seems now i have vibration when i brake could it just be >> because the old unchanged back rotors are warped? or what help / My rear rotors were recently warped but not my fronts. I replaced all four but it was definitely the rears that were warped. They warped at Mid-Ohio last September. I could feel the pulsation in the brake lines through the brake pedal but my steering was largely unaffected. If it had been the fronts, the steering would have been severely shaking as the rears were very warped. >> i also heard >> a strange rattling noise right after i start the car any insight it to these >> little annoying problem that drive me wild Could be the VANOS or the lifters ticking. Hard to tell without hearing it. Do you have a LTW flywheel and not know it. Is the rattling at idle or all the time. Is the clutch engaged or disengaged or not matter. Does the rattling only occur on cold starts or all the time. Could be perfectly normal too. >> and IM also only 19 and do agree these cars shouldn't be in the hands of any >> one to young cause they will hurt the car yet like Chris no one dare stand in >> between me and my M3 Be careful out there. I hate seeing E36 330is....errr....M3s all messed up after an accident. I still want to buy a M3 sedan some day. I hate to think what your insurance costs if the car is in your name (obligatory insurance comment....I HATE GEICO). Later, Rich 95 M3 89 325is - currently disabled :-(
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#9. RE: [E36M3] WTB E36 M3 Coupe? - from Mel Silva
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:28:05 -0500 From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] WTB E36 M3 Coupe? No Way! Mine is the only Byzanz M3 in Houston and it should stay that way if I can help it. Mel -----Original Message----- From: Dorffer, Rich [mailto:RDORFFER@CleIndians.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:14 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] WTB E36 M3 Coupe? Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:13:32 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: WTB E36 M3 Coupe? >> Posting for a friend who is interested in buying a "car that is as cool" as >> mine. He is looking for an E36 M3 Coupe in the Houston area. Does anyone >> have any leads I can forward to him. Well, if it has to be as cool as yours, I saw a E36 M3 Byzantine (Copper color) in Maryland (IIRC) advertised in Autoweek. The price was reasonable for the mileage IIRC. I know it's not Houston but at least its as "cool". Later, Rich ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. *************************************************************
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#10. Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps - from Chris Papademetrious
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:32:39 -0400 From: Chris Papademetrious <chrispy@ieee.org> Subject: Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps At 08:38 AM 6/5/2002 -0500, Neil Maller wrote: >Since you have a new water pump, odds are that your overheating is due to >another factor. A very common cause on our cars is thermostat failure. > >Good news: if that's it, the thermostat is cheap and easy to replace. > >Bad news: by continuing to run your car in its overheated condition you've >significantly increased the likelihood of head gasket problems, maybe >sooner, maybe later. Neil, I appreciate the response. A couple of thoughts: 1. On the trip home, I put the heater on full blast to attempt to suck as much heat out of the coolant as I could. There wasn't any heat, leading me to believe the coolant wasn't circulating. This rules out the thermostat, right? 2. On the trip home (which was more like 2 miles, it sure feels a lot longer when you're watching a pegged gauge!), I would run the car for a few seconds at 3/4 throttle, then coast with the key off but the throttle floored. The motor wasn't combusting for a significant portion of the trip home. I learned this on my other car, where you could actually get the temp needle to drop back to halfway, due to the volumes of air going though the motor. The needle on the M3 didn't budge, but I don't think there's a direct correspondence between motor temperature and temperature needle position on the E36 cars. Still, your advice on the head gasket is well-taken. My mechanic looks at the car today, and I'll ask his thoughts on the matter. Thanks for the thoughts! I guess time will ultimately tell how lucky/foolish I was. - Chris