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#1. Re: [E36M3] Secondary air pump problems - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:22:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Secondary air pump problems A new pump will run you about $150. Swapping it out should be straight forward. Chester --- Dan Hermann <dah328@hotmail.com> wrote: > Also, if the pump is not too expensive and installation not too difficult, I > may just replace it myself. The dealer wanted about $550 to do it, but I > don't know what the parts/labor breakdown on that was. I can't imagine > labor is that much since the part appears to be easily accessible. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not - from Dave Spragg
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:23:49 -0400 From: "Dave Spragg" <dspragg@attbi.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not I had mine safety wired and adjusted on my race car (95 M3 engine) and did the lower end bearings at the same time (since it's super easy once you have gone this far). Got peace of mind that I won't have this problem and a few psi of oil pressure all in one shot. Dave Spragg dave@spragg.com Natick, MA 99 M3 Sharked Garage Queen 92 330is Sharked #330 I Prepared -----Original Message----- From: dholeman [mailto:dholeman@racepad.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:54 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:53:44 -0400 From: "dholeman" <dholeman@racepad.com> Subject: Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not Having spun this off myself I have come to learn that it is a safety feature not a flaw. Basically the only way this will spin off is if you basically miss shift your engine causing the crank to spinn backwards. The gear is designed to spin off to prevent the oil pump from running backwards. As a result you loose oil pressure. The idiot light comes on and you have to check the fault codes. Could BMW do a better job letting you know what the problem is - Yes! Could they have used a better design - Yes.. However, there was a reason they did this! Many racers to try to lock this down in some way. Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:17:39 -0500 From: "M-Power" <M-Power@austin.rr.com> Subject: Catastrophic Engine Failure Memorial Day Weekend I had a catastrophic loss of oil pressure that completely destroyed the engine in my 1999 M3 with only 57K-58K miles. BMW has refused to be any help with this design flaw! I have to replace the engine! The nut that holds the gear to the oil pump came off. This caused the gear to come off; therefore there was a complete loss of oil pressure. This is a design flaw that all of you need to be aware of! The nut does NOT have anything to stop it from coming loose and falling off. The nut needs to be torqued correctly, lock tight applied and safety wire attached. This is a more common failure than most people or BMW are willing to admit. Every engine tuner I have talked with knows of this problem and builds their engines accordingly. Bobby Archer who has my car in Fort Worth, diagnosed the problem at the track before he tore the engine apart at his shop last week. He had already seen several of these failures. He was also telling me that all of the M3s that originally failed in the Speedvision Challenge Series were due to this failure. This failure has nothing to do with taking your car to the track. There have been many instances of cars that have had this failure and never taken their cars to the track. ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. *************************************************************
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#3. RE: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure - from Bob Lenarcik
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:50:20 -0700 From: "Bob Lenarcik" <lenarcik@pacbell.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure After hearing all these horror stories, I am so glad I bought the LTW pan when a group purchase came up. I just waiting until the time was right to get it installed. Sure enough I found some oil seeping around the oil pan gasket - not a lot, but enough to justify the expense of installing the new pan to my wife. I already had one "laying around" and the labor was not much more than. - Bob '97 M3/2 -----Original Message----- From: Chester Wong [mailto:chester_p_wong@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:24 AM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:19:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure The nut is a left hand thread M10x1 nut and the torque spec is 25Nm. To get to it is quite difficult and involves dropping the oil pan, AFAIK. If you're going to do that, you might as well spring for the GT oil pan :) Chester
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:07:05 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps -- Alexander Fadeev 972-507-4761 (work) 972-507-1270 (fax) |---------+----------------------------> | | Robert Chay | | | <rchay@mindspring| | | .com> | | | | | | 06/05/02 10:14 AM| | | Please respond to| | | Robert Chay | | | | |---------+----------------------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Robert Chay <rchay@mindspring.com> wrote: > > Sounds like your thermostat is stuck closed. In this state, it blocks the > coolant from circulating. Robert, Closed t-stat does not block coolant from circulating. It just keeps it from reaching the radiator thus allowing the engine to warm up faster in cold weather. This should _not_ have prevented Chris from getting heat out of the HVAC. The only two reasons I can think of why an engine would overheat with no heat out of the air vents are 1). dead water pump (I know it's new); b). the air was not bled out of the system and you have an air pocket blocking the coolant flow. > Neil is right about it being fairly cheap to fix. > One thing to check is that parts of the t-stat didn't break off and go thru > your cooling system. That would be the first I've ever heard of such a scenario. alex f ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:32:39 -0400 > From: Chris Papademetrious <chrispy@ieee.org> > Subject: Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps > <snip> > 1. On the trip home, I put the heater on full blast to attempt to suck > as much heat out of the coolant as I could. There wasn't any heat, > leading me to believe the coolant wasn't circulating. This rules out > the thermostat, right? <snip>
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:14:17 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps Chris Papademetrious <chrispy@ieee.org> wrote: > > At 08:38 AM 6/5/2002 -0500, Neil Maller wrote: > >Since you have a new water pump, odds are that your overheating is > >due to another factor. A very common cause on our cars is thermostat > >failure. > > > >Good news: if that's it, the thermostat is cheap and easy to replace. > > > >Bad news: by continuing to run your car in its overheated condition you've > >significantly increased the likelihood of head gasket problems, maybe > >sooner, maybe later. > > Neil, I appreciate the response. A couple of thoughts: > > 1. On the trip home, I put the heater on full blast to attempt to suck as > much heat out of the coolant as I could. There wasn't any heat, leading me > to believe the coolant wasn't circulating. This rules out the thermostat, > right? Chris, You can't rule out thermostat just because coolant isn't circulating. But your symptoms do point to another problem (dead pump or air in the system). > 2. On the trip home (which was more like 2 miles, it sure feels a lot > longer when you're watching a pegged gauge!), I would run the car for a > few seconds at 3/4 throttle, then coast with the key off but the throttle > floored. The motor wasn't combusting for a significant portion of the trip > home. I learned this on my other car, where you could actually get the > temp needle to drop back to halfway, due to the volumes of air going though > the motor. The needle on the M3 didn't budge, but I don't think there's a > direct correspondence between motor temperature and temperature needle > position on the E36 cars. There is a direct correspondence (why else do you think our cars have a coolant temp gauge?). The only way it could be different is when the water pump dies. In that case the catastrophically rising coolant temp in the engine block may take a while to show up on the gauge which samples coolant temp elsewhere. If you had let the engine cool sufficiently, the temp would have dropped. Driving the car with the temp gauge anywhere near the red line is asking for trouble. good luck with the car, alex f
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#6. Important - If you care about track tires - from Kerry Tully
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:22:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Kerry Tully <bayoubimmer@yahoo.com> Subject: Important - If you care about track tires Today is the deadline for commenting on new government regs proposed for DOT-rated tires, so please read this and do what it says... help Hoosier and the other companies making track tires. http://www.hoosiertire.com/fmvsshlp.HTM Kerry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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#7. RE: catastrophic engine failure - from Robert Manger
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:25:53 -0400 From: "Robert Manger" <Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com> Subject: RE: catastrophic engine failure What is the fix that the dealer did to your car besides putting the nut back on? Can this be done via a DIY or is the dealer/other mech required? Rob- 95 with 37K Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:25:34 -0400 From: "Steve Hazard" <SHazard@nhboston.com> Subject: RE: catastrophic engine failure I lost my Oil pump nut last July out on the highway. My 98 Sedan had about 70K on it at the time. I saw the light come on, coasted off the highway into a Gas station and shut her down. When I tried to start her up she sounded like a Diesel! Had it towed up to the Dealership, $800 later all was well. No bearing damage! I agree with M-Power that there are to many of these incidents. My car has been spun tons (both feet in), bounced off the 7K Rev limiter hundreds of times, tracked and Autocrossed hard for 3 years now, but none of that should be an excuse for the nut backing of my car, or any other... I have talked with others who had this happen also. BMW is looking the other way IMHO....It would be an expensive TSB/Recall!!!! I wonder if there is some way to figure out hom many cars this has happened to since 95? My .02 Steve Boston Chapter Autocross Chair
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#8. RE: Catastrophic Engine Failure - from BOOM,BILL (HP-Roseville,ex1)
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:27:11 -0700 From: "BOOM,BILL (HP-Roseville,ex1)" <bill_boom@hp.com> Subject: RE: Catastrophic Engine Failure > Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:53:44 -0400 > From: "dholeman" <dholeman@racepad.com> > Subject: Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not > > Having spun this off myself I have come to learn that it is a > safety feature not a flaw. Basically the only way this will > spin off is if you basically miss shift your engine causing > the crank to spinn backwards. The gear is designed to spin > off to prevent the oil pump from running backwards. As a > result you loose oil pressure. The idiot light comes on and > you have to check the fault codes. Could BMW do a better job > letting you know what the problem is - Yes! Could they have > used a better design - Yes.. However, there was a reason > they did this! How does a misshift cause the engine to spin backwards? Doesn't a misshift simply cause the engine to spin too fast in the normal direction? Regardless: So your saying there's a fault code that says "oil pump gear intentionally spun off"? - Bill
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps - from Chris Papademetrious
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 14:32:24 -0400 From: Chris Papademetrious <chrispy@ieee.org> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps At 01:14 PM 6/5/2002 -0500, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: >There is a direct correspondence (why else do you think our cars have a >coolant temp gauge?). The only way it could be different is when the water >pump dies. In that case the catastrophically rising coolant temp in the >engine block may take a while to show up on the gauge which samples coolant >temp elsewhere. This confused a few people, so I should explain. Based on previous posts on this list, I have gathered that the movement of the gauge needle is not exactly proportional to sensor temperature. From what I read, there is some conditioning which centers the needle on the gauge within the normal operating range of the car. I could be wrong, as I'm simply repeating what I read here. By extension of this, I was wondering if the gauge did the same thing at the hot end of the scale. The needle never budged from the exact center of the red block, and it still had travel left on the gauge. This surprised me a little, as I'm sure the engine wasn't the exact same temperature after leaving the car sit 15 minutes on the side of the road, and when I pulled it into my driveway. >If you had let the engine cool sufficiently, the temp would have dropped. >Driving the car with the temp gauge anywhere near the red line is asking >for trouble. Unfortunately given that my friend really had to get back home after dinner (he lives two hours from me), we were right down the road from my house, and it was pitch-black dark, I chose to risk it and drive most of the way with the motor off. Believe me, I've been wondering what consequences I may have brought upon my wallet, but I've read of much worse overheating incidents here with no subsequent issues, so I decided to take a calculated risk. I didn't hear any boiling when I shut it off in my driveway, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'll let you all know what we find tonight when my mechanic tears into the car. It should be interesting. Again, for what it's worth, I used the turn-off-engine/WOT trick with other cars to literally keep the temperature needle in the middle of the gauge. Without that trick, I probably would not have taken the risk at all. >good luck with the car, Thanks, I may need it. - Chris
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#10. RE: Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:40:39 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not "Basically the only way this will spin off is if you basically miss shift your engine causing the crank to spinn backwards." ......not wanting to intentionally flame but.... How does this - "basically miss shift your engine" - cause this "the crank to spinn backwards"? Would this be the fifth-to-reverse missed shift? Typically the fifth-to-first missed-shift simply over-speeds the engine and (IMHO) the oil pump doesn't know if the engine is 'free' accelerating or if it is a mechanically induced over-rev, the loading on the pump shaft is of the same direction albeit of a much greater acceleration. Is the nut threaded in a manner such that excessive/instantaneous acceleration forces 'unwind' the nut from the pump shaft? Kim L Burgess