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#1. Re: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not - from Matt Henson
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:50:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not How does missing a shift cause the crank to spin backwards? You mean shifting from a FWD gear into reverse? Why is it so bad for the oil pump to run backwards? Wouldn't it have been better to design an oil pump that can be spun backwards? I don't see how anything that stops the oil pump from working could be considered a safety feature. Given the number of other similar "safety features" in our cars, I'd be inclined to think that the unscrewing oil pump was just a screw up. Other "safety features": -Plastic WP impeller self destructs when engine is spun forward for more than 50K miles, overheating light comes on to warn driver. -Radiator neck breaks at 50K miles, large cloud of steam emitted from under hood to warn driver. - Transmission mounts are too soft, allowing 2nd gear to be where 4th should be. Engine grenades with hamfisted driver, metal schrapnel comes from hood to warn driver. - Rear shock mounts underengineered. They fail after a period of time, warning the driver with a loud clunking sound. - Power steering clamps don't clamp, allowing fluid loss. Car slips on its own fluid and spins out of control to warn driver. (okays so this is exagerated) - FM radio not properly engineered to be insensitive to electrical sound, as a work around, frequencies above about 10kHz are cut off to warn driver that it's time to get a Blaupunkt. -Matt --- dholeman <dholeman@racepad.com> wrote: > Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:53:44 -0400 > From: "dholeman" <dholeman@racepad.com> > Subject: Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not > > Having spun this off myself I have come to learn > that it is a safety feature not a flaw. Basically > the only way this will spin off is if you basically > miss shift your engine causing the crank to spinn > backwards. The gear is designed to spin off to > prevent the oil pump from running backwards. As a > result you loose oil pressure. The idiot light > comes on and you have to check the fault codes. > Could BMW do a better job letting you know what the > problem is - Yes! Could they have used a better > design - Yes.. However, there was a reason they did > this! > > Many racers to try to lock this down in some way. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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#2. Fw: Supercharger removal - from Joe Dyer
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:05:54 -0700 From: "Joe Dyer" <joedyer@attbi.com> Subject: Fw: Supercharger removal Sent this last night. Hasn't shown up in 13 hours, so sending it again! Joe ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Dyer=20 To: E36M3=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:53 PM Subject: Supercharger removal Well, after some advice from the list, and a bunch of phonecalls, I have = learned I can remove the supercharger and ship it back to the factory. = They will open it up, assess the repairs needed, give me a quote, and = rebuild it. I can't help but think that would be cheaper than the $1800 = that Dinan wants to replace it. But now I will have to remove it myself. Has anybody had experience = with removing a powerdyne supercharger (like a Dinan installed one) and = who could give me some tips off-line? I suspect it is held to the = mounting hardware by eight bolts around the upper periphery and could be = dropped down to release the belt. Advice? Joe Dyer 95 M3 joedyer@attbi.com 408-257-5722
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#3. oil pump nut - from RFKoby@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:51:24 -0400 From: RFKoby@aol.com Subject: oil pump nut a lot of people cannot understand how spinning the car and stalling the engine causes the engine to spin backwards.. I have seen a car loose it in a turn and spin so that the car is going backwards. The drive did not put both feet in and the car travel backwards a significant distance and speed until he did stop it. (yes, this was on the racetrack...) When he restarted the car and drove back to the pits, by the time he got there, he had the check engine light, and no oil pressure. I have also seen a car do the miss-shift/dowshift. He was trying to do a 5-4 down shift, instead he got 5-2, major over-rev and also spun the car at the same time. The result was that he over-rev'd the motor, spun and traveled backwards at speed, and over-rev'd the motor spinning backwards....... needless to say, both instances had the oil pump nut come off. bob
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#4. Re: [E36M3] oil pump nut - from Matt Henson
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:15:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] oil pump nut I don't think that anyone was questioning how a spin could cause it to go backwards, the question was how could a misshift cause it to go backwards. The answer appears to be that it may cause a spin, which is fine, but it really isn't correct to say that the nut should fall off because of a misshift or bouncing off the rev limiter. But we still can't see how a car that's never been spun should lose its nut or why it's a good idea to lose the nut to prevent the pump from rotating backwards. -Matt --- RFKoby@aol.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:51:24 -0400 > From: RFKoby@aol.com > Subject: oil pump nut > > a lot of people cannot understand > how spinning the car and stalling the > engine causes the engine to spin backwards.. > > I have seen a car loose it in a turn > and spin so that the car is going backwards. > The drive did not put both feet in > and the car travel backwards a significant > distance and speed until he did stop it. > (yes, this was on the racetrack...) > > When he restarted the car and drove back > to the pits, by the time he got there, > he had the check engine light, and no oil pressure. > > I have also seen a car do the miss-shift/dowshift. > He was trying to do a 5-4 down shift, > instead he got 5-2, major over-rev > and also spun the car at the same time. > The result was that he over-rev'd > the motor, spun and traveled > backwards at speed, and over-rev'd > the motor spinning backwards....... > > needless to say, > both instances had the oil pump nut come off. > > bob > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as > the > subject of the message to the email address > e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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#5. Re: Suggestion on front control arm bushings - from Neil Maller
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:33:09 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Suggestion on front control arm bushings A couple of people emailed me to claim that the 96+ M3 control arm bushings do have voids/windows in them, contrary to what I posted recently. Obviously I'm right and they're idiots ;) But I went and checked my own car. You know, just to confirm my obvious state of perfection. Uh-oh - my bushings have these voids in them... I'd have sworn on a stack of priceless BMW microfiches they they were solid, but it just ain't so. Contributions for my treatment may be sent to the Neil Maller Senile Dementia (and Wine Cellar Enhancement) Fund. Sorry for the misinformation. Neil 96 M3
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#6. Oil pump picture - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:58:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Oil pump picture I was looking around on racepad's site (thanks Dave!) and saw this: http://www.racepad.com/projects/euro_motor_project/S50_salvage_oilpump[lg].jpg I believe the nut everyone is talking about is one on the left as this is the oil pump. Chester ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:16:23 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: 95 M3 - stupid water pumps Chris Papademetrious <chrispy@ieee.org> wrote: > > At 01:14 PM 6/5/2002 -0500, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > >There is a direct correspondence (why else do you think our cars have > >a coolant temp gauge?). The only way it could be different is when the > >water pump dies. In that case the catastrophically rising coolant temp > >in the engine block may take a while to show up on the gauge which > >samples coolant temp elsewhere. > > This confused a few people, so I should explain. Based on previous posts > on this list, I have gathered that the movement of the gauge needle is not > exactly proportional to sensor temperature. From what I read, there is > some conditioning which centers the needle on the gauge within the normal > operating range of the car. I could be wrong, as I'm simply repeating what > I read here. Chris, You are referring to the E36 temp gauges 'sweet spot' where the gauge stays dead center within a 10-20F temperature range. The rumor has it this was BMW's way of dealing with pesky owners who would rush to the dealer to complain about over heating whenever the temp gauge would move past 12 o'clock position in E30/E28 cars. > By extension of this, I was wondering if the gauge did the same > thing at the hot end of the scale. The needle never budged from > the exact center of the red block, and it still had travel left > on the gauge. The red block IS the panic zone. The point is to turn the engine off long before the temp gauge threatens to exit the red zone on the right. I've almost overheated by car once at an autoX. The crimp-type clamp holding the small feed line to the overfill container broke off (replace all crimp-type OEM clamps on your coolant/fuel lines NOW). The coolant line got in the way of the fan blades. One of the ban blades deflected into the radiator and broke. Coolant vapor started pouring out of the engine bay and the car shook like it lost a cylinder. By the time I coasted back into the grid the temp gauge was a hair to the left of the red zone. 10-15 minutes of panic trying to figure out what went wrong later it starting cooling and retreating from the red zone. > This surprised me a little, as I'm sure the engine wasn't the exact > same temperature after leaving the car sit 15 minutes on the side of the > road, That all depends of whether the coolant was circulating or not. > and when I pulled it into my driveway. *cringing* alex f
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#8. OT: Buggy Race - from Reid Conti
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 14:54:18 -0700 From: Reid Conti <reid@conti.net> Subject: OT: Buggy Race Sorry for the OT, but I think this is important to keep in mind when saying that allowing kids to drive fast cars results in racing. http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20020527/1004530.asp - reid
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#9. RE: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure - from Dames, Mark
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:35:26 -0700 From: "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure So how tough is it to do the lock tight, retaining wire fix for the oil pump? Can the oil pan be dropped from under the car without moving the engine and/or other stuff? How do you go about drilling the screw stud for the retaining wire? Is this something that can be removed from the engine easility and placed in a drill jig? -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hazard [mailto:SHazard@nhboston.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:34 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] RE: catastrophic engine failure Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:25:34 -0400 From: "Steve Hazard" <SHazard@nhboston.com> Subject: RE: catastrophic engine failure I lost my Oil pump nut last July out on the highway. My 98 Sedan had about 70K on it at the time. I saw the light come on, coasted off the highway into a Gas station and shut her down. When I tried to start her up she sounded like a Diesel! Had it towed up to the Dealership, $800 later all was well. No bearing damage! I agree with M-Power that there are to many of these incidents. My car has been spun tons (both feet in), bounced off the 7K Rev limiter hundreds of times, tracked and Autocrossed hard for 3 years now, but none of that should be an excuse for the nut backing of my car, or any other... I have talked with others who had this happen also. BMW is looking the other way IMHO....It would be an expensive TSB/Recall!!!! I wonder if there is some way to figure out hom many cars this has happened to since 95? My .02 Steve Boston Chapter Autocross Chair > > Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:17:39 -0500 > > From: "M-Power" <M-Power@austin.rr.com> > > Subject: Catastrophic Engine Failure > > > > Memorial Day Weekend I had a catastrophic loss of oil pressure that > > completely destroyed the engine in my 1999 M3 with only 57K-58K miles. BMW > > has refused to be any help with this design flaw! I have to replace the > > engine! > > > > The nut that holds the gear to the oil pump came off. This caused the gear > > to come off; therefore there was a complete loss of oil pressure. This is a > > design flaw that all of you need to be aware of! The nut does NOT have > > anything to stop it from coming loose and falling off. The nut needs to be > > torqued correctly, lock tight applied and safety wire attached. > > > > This is a more common failure than most people or BMW are willing to admit. > > Every engine tuner I have talked with knows of this problem and builds their > > engines accordingly. Bobby Archer who has my car in Fort Worth, diagnosed > > the problem at the track before he tore the engine apart at his shop last > > week. He had already seen several of these failures. He was also telling me > > that all of the M3s that originally failed in the Speedvision Challenge > > Series were due to > > this failure. > > > > This failure has nothing to do with taking your car to the track. There have > > been many instances of cars that have had this failure and never taken their > > cars to the track. ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. *************************************************************
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not - from kitwetzler@mindspring.com
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:18:03 -0400 From: "kitwetzler@mindspring.com" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Catastrophic Engine Failure - Not "Basically the only way this will spin off is if you basically miss shift your engine causing the crank to spinn backwards." Err. Close. If you spin, and go off track backwards, if you don't disengage the clutch, you can rotate the engine backwards. (usually happens when you coast to a stop.) This is obviously Very Bad for Lots of Things, so it's always a good idea to remember: "In a spin, both feet in." (clutch and brake) You can easily cause valve to piston contact rotating the engine backwards, because the tensioner doesn't function this way. -kit -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .