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#1. Use of Harnesses sans roll bar - from Jeff A
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:33:23 -0500 From: "Jeff A" <aabel@austin.rr.com> Subject: Use of Harnesses sans roll bar I don't recall seeing any discussion on the above subject, and in an archive search, I found Neil's comments are well writtten and crystallize the issue. I'm in the common situation of trying to improve safety and car control by upgrading my restraint system, from factory belts to something more robust like a 4, 5, or 6 point harness. The street compromises of a roll bar (roll cage totally unacceptable) are difficult to swallow for me. I was wondering if anyone had thoughts to add. I've talked with vendors, racers, DE instructors, a DE president, TCK, I/O Port Racing, and whomever else would give me their thoughts on the issue, and I remain undecided. I've gathered lots of opinions, and a few people have backed up their thoughts with anecdotal evidence. Of interest, the folks at I/O Port who advocate a roll bar, detailed two E36 rollovers. They cited poor roof integrity, totally crumpled A pillars, and somewhat bent B pillars, as evidence that track driven E36's need a roll bar. Interesting to note that both drivers walked away, one was wearing the Schroth ASM 4-point harnes, the other factory belts. ------------------ Using a roll bar with 4/5 point harness (and of course helmet) will undoubtedly increase passive safety for track use. It will also render your rear seat unusable for passenger occupancy the rest of the time. On the street the bar, when used without helmet and harness, may also compromise front seat safety unacceptably. This will be worse for tall drivers, whose seat position can put their unprotected head close to the bar, but may not be much of an issue at all for short drivers. It'll tend to be better for coupés, but worse for sedans, due to the respective B pillar positions. - The argument is sometimes advanced that a 4 (or 5) point harness should not be used without a roll bar or cage, since in case of a rollover with severe roof collapse (a la Sears Point) the occupants may be held upright and suffer serious spinal injuries. In 5 years I've never seen or heard of any such occurrence at a school, although the possibility warrants discussion. A couple of club chapters now mandate using only the stock lap/diagonal belts if there's no rollover protection. However it's also absolutely certain that a 4 point harness offers superior protection in any other accident mode than total roof collapse. What's the probability of a rollover with severe roof collapse vs. that of all other accident modes combined? Where is the line of compromise drawn, and who should make that decision? - With regard to rollovers, there may be some regional variations at play. The tracks I've driven on here in the Midwest are: Gingerman Grattan Indianapolis Raceway Park Mid Ohio Michigan International Speedway Putnam Park Road America Of these only MIS and RA even generate 5th gear speeds in an M3, and at MIS the higher speeds are out on the NASCAR bowl, which is wide and predictable (well, it is if you're not drafting nose-to-tail in the pack at 180 mph, anyway!). Obviously I'm assuming that rollovers severe enough to collapse the roof totally tend to require the energy of higher speeds. Are the conditions and the risk trade-offs different at Summit Point, Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca and others, with their higher speed corners? Maybe so. My point in all this is that running a street car at a race track is a safety compromise from the very start. There are few absolute answers, and every participant needs to make his or her own informed and well-considered decisions about safety. Having said which, maybe I'll see some of you at Motor City's school at MIS the weekend after July 4th. Drive safely. Neil 96 M3 -------------------
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#2. [E36M3] Re: Serpentine Belt - from Colin_S_Whelan@rrfc.raytheon.com
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:53:36 -0400 From: Colin_S_Whelan@rrfc.raytheon.com Subject: [E36M3] Re: Serpentine Belt Well, I swapped out my belts last night and ending up going the remove-the-shroud and access-from-underneath method. Good thing too, since the shroud was starting to come loose from the PO scrapping it against parking stops. A number (~10) of 1" washers on the 8 mm bolts really strengthened the mounting points, and will likely prevent the notorious highway "departure" of the shrouding. Thanks to Chester and Matt for their advice. Thanks, Colin '98 M3/2 (JC intake, chip, X-brace, Euro + R4S...) '80 Turbo Trans Am (14 psi of boost)
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#3. Part number request/confirmation - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:10:29 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Part number request/confirmation Chester says > > I believe that you want part number 36 11 2 228 150 > The part number you have is for the ugly '95 butter-soft wheels :) Hey now, call them buttery soft if you like, but not ugly. I happen to like the style (am I in a room by myself on this one). I like them so much, I am trying to upgrade to a set of the polished forged wheels right now. Useful content - Most of the M3 wheels cost anywhere from $500 - $700 new list price. You can typically get up to 30% off these prices from a willing dealer. Used prices should be obviously less than this. A decent used price for the wheel you speak of should be in the $200 - $300 range IMO. Otherwise, I do like the styling of the M3 wheels, including the 1995 ten double spokes :-) Later, Rich
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#4. Re: Soft Steering? - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:15:48 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Soft Steering? on 6/10/02 6:55 PM, Steve Klein <klein@robinsonad.com> wrote: > A question: What could be some probable causes of 'soft' steering. > The wheel feels light (as in no loss of power assist) but the ratio of > turning in relation to rotation of the steering wheel seems slower. > I did the front suspension 8 days ago You don't mention having had an alignment after the suspension change... Neil 96 M3
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#5. Soft Steering? - from Davis, Jake A
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:25:15 -0500 From: "Davis, Jake A" <jake.a.davis@boeing.com> Subject: Soft Steering? From: Steve Klein <klein@robinsonad.com> Subject: Soft Steering? snip: A question: What could be some probable causes of 'soft' steering. The wheel feels light (as in no loss of power assist) but the ratio of turning in relation to rotation of the steering wheel seems slower. Any thoughts of what to look for before I go in are greatly appreciated. Steve, Did you have an alignment done (or have alignment checked) after suspension installation? It's possible that the toe is now incorrect, that could cause the 'soft/wander' you're experiencing.
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Part number request/confirmation - from Chester Wong
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:43:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Part number request/confirmation > Hey now, call them buttery soft if you like, but not ugly. I happen to like > the style (am I in a room by myself on this one). I like them so much, I am > trying to upgrade to a set of the polished forged wheels right now. Don't get me wrong....I *LOVE* how the polished forged wheels look. I used to like the M Double Spoke IIs until I upgraded to the forged wheels. IMO, the forged wheels look the best......now if only I could put the M Parallel (740i Sport) wheels on my car.... =) Chester ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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#7. Fuel Gauge Problem - from Chuck Hanson
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:47:21 -0600 From: Chuck Hanson <chuckh@dpsabq.com> Subject: Fuel Gauge Problem I own a '97 M3/4 and seem to have a gas gauge problem. I filled up yesterday (took over 15 gallons so I'm sure it was full) and the gas gauge is sitting somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4. The OBC tells me I have about 120 miles to empty. I topped it off this morning just to make sure it was full and it was. Has anyone had a similar problem? Thoughts or ideas? It's still under CPO warranty so hopefully it will only cost me an arm and not the leg too. Chuck Hanson 97 M3/4
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#8. Dancing Fuel Gauge - from Jonathan Evans
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:49:26 -0400 From: "Jonathan Evans" <jonathanevans@hotmail.com> Subject: Dancing Fuel Gauge My fuel gauge on my '95 has started to do a bit of a jig when completely full as well as any volume under 1/4 of a tank. It will peg above full after filling up, then when less than a quarter tank is left, it will peg way below empty. My first instinct was to smack the dash briskly with my left arm (grew up dealing with the Prince of Darkness on my dad's '66 Tiger), and that seems to temporarily cure the problem. So I'm thinking fuel lever sender issues are not the problem. Has anyone had loose connections in their gauge cluster? Curiously, the backlighting for the headlight rotary switch went out a few months ago. AND, there's no green LED for the fog lamps any longer. Hmmm... Might be a good excuse to install those white gauge faces... Guess it's time to check the Bentley... -Jonathan
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#9. BMW CCA Racing - from Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:14:00 -0400 From: <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> Subject: BMW CCA Racing Dave, I saw your posting, and am "still" thinking about racing my '96 M3 in BMW CCA racing next year. (I started with PCA Club Racing last year). I am curious, is there much a showing in HS for the '96+ M3s? I figured with all the M3s built with the 3.2ltrs, there might start to be a influx, but whenever I look, it seems like there are plenty of IS '95s, but few HS '96+. Thanks! Regards, Stan Shaw Excell.Net Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0421 Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net http://www.excell.net/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Use of Harnesses sans roll bar - from Carey Probst
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:23:25 -0400 From: "Carey Probst" <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Use of Harnesses sans roll bar Patroon Chapter has outlawed all 4 point harnesses for Drivers Schools, not sure about autocrosses. They require either stock 3 point or the 5 or 6 point, but they don't specify a roll bar with the 5 or 6 point. I run Schroth Autocontrols with ASM in my M3 for street and track, so will not be doing any home chapter drivers schools with Patroon. Couldn't get a good reason, other than possibility of submarining if belts not worn properly. Couldn't reference a specific incident or injury, only the 'we decided'. Personally I don't feel safer in the OEM than the Schroths which are TUV and DOT approved. Carey Probst, '99 M3/2, BMW CCA Patroon and Genesee Valley Chapters Sharked, Stressed, Schrothed, Gauged, Hitched, X-Braced A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff A [mailto:aabel@austin.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 8:45 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [E36M3] Use of Harnesses sans roll bar > > > Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:33:23 -0500 > From: "Jeff A" <aabel@austin.rr.com> > Subject: Use of Harnesses sans roll bar > > I don't recall seeing any discussion on the above subject, and in > an archive > search, I found Neil's comments are well writtten and crystallize > the issue. > I'm in the common situation of trying to improve safety and car control by > upgrading my restraint system, from factory belts to something more robust > like a 4, 5, or 6 point harness. The street compromises of a > roll bar (roll > cage totally unacceptable) are difficult to swallow for me. > > I was wondering if anyone had thoughts to add. I've talked with vendors, > racers, DE instructors, a DE president, TCK, I/O Port Racing, and whomever > else would give me their thoughts on the issue, and I remain undecided. > I've gathered lots of opinions, and a few people have backed up their > thoughts with anecdotal evidence. Of interest, the folks at I/O Port who > advocate a roll bar, detailed two E36 rollovers. They cited poor roof > integrity, totally crumpled A pillars, and somewhat bent B pillars, as > evidence that track driven E36's need a roll bar. Interesting to > note that > both drivers walked away, one was wearing the Schroth ASM 4-point harnes, > the other factory belts. > > ------------------ > > Using a roll bar with 4/5 point harness (and of course helmet) will > undoubtedly increase passive safety for track use. It will also > render your > rear seat unusable for passenger occupancy the rest of the time. > On the street the bar, when used without helmet and harness, may also > compromise front seat safety unacceptably. This will be worse for tall > drivers, whose seat position can put their unprotected head close to the > bar, but may not be much of an issue at all for short drivers. > It'll tend to > be better for coupés, but worse for sedans, due to the respective B pillar > positions. > > - The argument is sometimes advanced that a 4 (or 5) point harness should > not be used without a roll bar or cage, since in case of a rollover with > severe roof collapse (a la Sears Point) the occupants may be held upright > and suffer serious spinal injuries. In 5 years I've never seen or heard of > any such occurrence at a school, although the possibility warrants > discussion. A couple of club chapters now mandate using only the stock > lap/diagonal belts if there's no rollover protection. However it's also > absolutely certain that a 4 point harness offers superior > protection in any > other accident mode than total roof collapse. > What's the probability of a rollover with severe roof collapse vs. that of > all other accident modes combined? Where is the line of compromise drawn, > and who should make that decision? > > - With regard to rollovers, there may be some regional variations at play. > The tracks I've driven on here in the Midwest are: > Gingerman > Grattan > Indianapolis Raceway Park > Mid Ohio > Michigan International Speedway > Putnam Park > Road America > Of these only MIS and RA even generate 5th gear speeds in an M3, > and at MIS > the higher speeds are out on the NASCAR bowl, which is wide and > predictable > (well, it is if you're not drafting nose-to-tail in the pack at 180 mph, > anyway!). Obviously I'm assuming that rollovers severe enough to collapse > the roof totally tend to require the energy of higher speeds. > Are the conditions and the risk trade-offs different at Summit Point, Road > Atlanta, Laguna Seca and others, with their higher speed corners? > Maybe so. > > My point in all this is that running a street car at a race track is a > safety compromise from the very start. There are few absolute answers, and > every participant needs to make his or her own informed and > well-considered > decisions about safety. > > Having said which, maybe I'll see some of you at Motor City's > school at MIS > the weekend after July 4th. > > Drive safely. > > Neil > 96 M3 > > ------------------- > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > >