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#1. Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) - from Jason Jensen
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:09:39 -0400 From: "Jason Jensen" <jasonjensen75@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) Speaking of turbos...Sue..Looks like you have some competition.. http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=184332&page=1 If this has been posted already I apologize... And I coulda sworn this was you postin' a kill.. http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38570 J On Topic Stuff - Would someone please make one of these for the S50/S52 and sell it for 2k? :) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) - from Matt Henson
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) --- Sue Kraft <suekraft@new.rr.com> wrote: > If I still > owned my M3 and had it to do over again, I would go > with the cam/intake kits that are now offered for > the M3 > instead of forced induction. Anyway, this is just > my opinion based on my own experience. As always, > YMMV. > > Suzy I don't think that I had nearly as many problems with the AA setup as Sue did with the Mechtech. Still, If I had to do it again, I think that I would probably either go with cams or build my own system with an aftermarket EFI setup. The cams get you pretty close to the power of the turbo, and with the better drivability of the natural aspiration, overall performance (not straight line) would be equal. The turbo clearly wins if you are going to build the engine to take more boost, but then the driveline starts to break. The cams really make a lot of sense. That's coming from an engineer who is $6K + a lot of time in the hole for the turbo. -Matt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com
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#3. WAS Turbos now SC vs. Cams - from RacerxJLing@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:16:14 EDT From: RacerxJLing@aol.com Subject: WAS Turbos now SC vs. Cams I wanted to know if anyone had DIRECT experience re power/reliability etc. between the cams/euro hfm/chip vs. the Supercharger BTW, this is for a 95 OBDI street only car and is driven 90% highway. Also, I will be installing a 3.2liter off a 98 replacing my old 3.0 in my 95. Thanks 95 M3 > I have to add that the motor on the M5 has been highly modified, partly to > accommodate the turbo. Not sure what the stock compression is on an '88 > M5, but according to Dinan, the compression is now 7.6:1, which allows for > 15 lbs of boost with no problems. The compression on my '97 M3 was 10.5:1, > which made it a challenge to even get 5 lbs of boost without some misfiring > or early detonation problems. There is a world of difference between the > MechTech turbo I had on my M3 and the Dinan turbo setup on the M5. At the > point where the turbocharged M3 > was running out of power, the M5 is just starting to cook. I think there > is a lot of truth to what Rich is saying. After the experience of trying > to turbocharge my own M3, and now driving the M5, I'm not sure I would > recommend forced induction on the M3 unless you are prepared to do some > extensive modifications. I've been in a few Dinan supercharged M3s, and if > set up right, those aren't too bad, but still nothing like the M5. If I > still owned my M3 and had it to do over again, I would go with the > cam/intake kits that are now offered for the M3 > instead of forced induction. Anyway, this is just my opinion based on my > own experience. As always, YMMV. > > Suzy >
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#4. another alignment question - from Mdriver13@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:59:58 EDT From: Mdriver13@aol.com Subject: another alignment question Group, Stopped at my Dealer today to discuss the front toe-in / toe-out situation. Last alignment they moved my front toe from +0.15 degrees to -0.10 degrees and now I have excessive inside tire wear. I was looking for better turn-in so I told them to give me more toe-out. Here is my question... they are telling me toe-out is measured on the Hunter in negative degrees. So they did what I told them to do. Yes/No? I thought toe-out was a positive number? Could I be wrong....never ;-)) TIA, again. Bob Gill 97 ///M3 coupe Philly Region SCCA AS Champion 1997 & 2000 BSP Champion 2001
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#5. RE: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) - from Michael Michalski
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:01:14 -0500 From: "Michael Michalski" <mmichalski@leaselink.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) Hey guys, Just a quick question. I'm new to this post and just purchased a 97 ///M3 a week ago. Anyway, where would one go to purchase these cam/intake kits you speak of? And what are they asking for them? Thanks in advance. Mike 97 ///M3 Windy City Chapter -----Original Message----- From: Matt Henson [mailto:hensonator@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:18 AM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) --- Sue Kraft <suekraft@new.rr.com> wrote: > If I still > owned my M3 and had it to do over again, I would go > with the cam/intake kits that are now offered for > the M3 > instead of forced induction. Anyway, this is just > my opinion based on my own experience. As always, > YMMV. > > Suzy I don't think that I had nearly as many problems with the AA setup as Sue did with the Mechtech. Still, If I had to do it again, I think that I would probably either go with cams or build my own system with an aftermarket EFI setup. The cams get you pretty close to the power of the turbo, and with the better drivability of the natural aspiration, overall performance (not straight line) would be equal. The turbo clearly wins if you are going to build the engine to take more boost, but then the driveline starts to break. The cams really make a lot of sense. That's coming from an engineer who is $6K + a lot of time in the hole for the turbo. -Matt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. *************************************************************
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Dr. Gas Exhaust - from nabli@earthlink.net
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:31:38 -0400 From: <nabli@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Dr. Gas Exhaust Check out this info from Carl Buckland: http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/performance/e36_m3_crossover_pipe.html "The crossover needs to be as close to the header collectors as possible. the headers need to be very close to equal length, so that the exhaust flow is the same out of each bank of three cyl's. The firing order goes from one collector to the other. When a cylinder fires into the front collector, there is a very strong vacuum formed in the other, as the two boxes are brought together by the Dr. Gas, and joined siamese thru a small hole in the side of each pipe. A demonstration with an air hose on a Dr. Gas is startling. It appears that the scavenging created by the Dr. Gas forces the exhaust gases to flow much better, and hence more power. Now *where* that power is made in the power band is not known to me, but I believe that there is "some" loss at the very low end (under 2500), but there appears to be a big boost in the mid to upper range. I have been very happy with the whole exhaust system, and would reccomend it to anyone who wants more high end horsepower, and a really aggressive (but not "loud") engine voice." Cheers, Jim E. ----- Original Message ----- From: <RFKoby@aol.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:48 AM Subject: [E36M3] Dr. Gas Exhaust > > The Dr. Gas crossover is not the only source. > Visit the following websites: > www.drgas.com > www.burnsstainless.com > www.dynatechheaders.com > > The main point here is picking the correct > primary runner lengths, and also the location > of the crossover. The idea is to get cross scavenging > to help the engine breath!!! Also, the correct runner > lengths will make the system "resonant" > over a given rpm range. > With these factors helping to the engine to breath > during valve overlap, more exhaust is pulled out, > back pressure is reduce (it is actually negative > at overlap) and more intake charge is pulled in. > > The trick is picking the correct > runner length / location and rpm band > to get the most out of the torque curve.Most people are way off when it comes to > calculating the length and location. >
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) - from David Bauer
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:45:24 -0500 From: David Bauer <dbauer@blkbox.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) I remember Mark Radelow mentioning that Corky was looking for a '95 to do testing on last year. I talked to Corky about it but chickened out (having "turbo", "testing" and my car together in the same sentence didn't sound right). I wondered if anyone else took him up on it. Dave 95 M3 Robert Liu wrote: > > Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:06:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: Robert Liu <bob_a_liu@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) > > Has anyone tried Corky Bell's turbo for the M3? > http://www.cartech.net/BMWM3Turbo.html > The only issue I have with his kit is the fueling > using the FPR. But, combine this kit with a good > standalone ECU... > > I have his turbo kit for my miata (w/ a TEC2), and it > has been VERY trouble free. My car recently put out > 290 rwhp / 288 ft-lbs torque on a relatively small T28 > turbo. > > The key to turbo's is tuning. I don't like the > aftermarket companies who are selling pre-programmed > chips. It's much more effective to get a programmable > system. I know the average consumer doesn't want to > program their ECU, but if you want a turbo M3, you > probably aren't the average consumer. > > Bob >
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) - from Sue Kraft
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:03:19 -0500 From: Sue Kraft <suekraft@new.rr.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez.) The Red Devil vs the Black Beast.......bring 'em on! :) I have gotten a few strange looks from the kids in the rice rockets when they see an old lady putting around town in an old lumpy idling lowered to the ground 4 door BMW with foot wide tires on the back of it :) Suzy Jason Jensen wrote: > Speaking of turbos...Sue..Looks like you have some competition.. > > http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=184332&page=1 > > If this has been posted already I apologize... > > And I coulda sworn this was you postin' a kill.. > > http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38570 > > J > > On Topic Stuff - Would someone please make one of these for the S50/S52 and > sell it for 2k? :) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
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#9. Turbos (was aw geez. - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:16:44 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Turbos (was aw geez. Matt writes a very well-written post and finishes with > > The engine block isn't perfect for forced induction; it > would be nice to have thicker cylinder walls and an > extra bolt per cylinder. But if detonation is kept > under control, the engine works just fine with a > turbo, thank you. Now, with all of that said, there > really aren't any decent turbo kits available (at > least not for a reasonable price) so all of my > arguments are really just academic. Exactly my point. Suzy says (and apparently not taking offense to my comments which I hoped I wouldn't offend her) > > After the experience of trying to turbocharge my own M3, > and now driving the M5, I'm not sure I would recommend forced > induction on the M3 unless you are prepared to do some > extensive modifications. Again, my point better stated. If a motor requires such extensive modification along with all the cost of the system, the tuning, the trial-and-error, etc. it becomes too costly considering the increase in horsepower achieved versus buying something that is already turbo-charged or is more conducive to turbo-charging. YMMV. Regards, Rich
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez. - from Matt Henson
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:40:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Turbos (was aw geez. --- "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> wrote: > > Again, my point better stated. If a motor requires > such extensive modification along with all the cost > of the system, the tuning, the trial-and-error, etc. > it becomes too costly considering the increase in > horsepower achieved versus buying something that is > already turbo-charged or is more conducive to > turbo-charging. > > YMMV. > > Regards, > > Rich Our engine is no more ill-suited than most of the other ones out there. It does require engineering and tuning to get right but, once someone does the work properly then there's no reason that they couldn't make a kit that worked great for a reasonable price. I don't think that the internal modes are really necessary to achieve 350-375HP with good reliability. The problem isn't the M3; it's the lack of a good supplier, which is due to lack of demand. If 50 people had called up CB 24 months ago, I'll bet you that there would be a world class turbo system for the M3 today. But, that didn't happen so cam's are the way to go. -Matt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com