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#1. re: suspension ??? - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:43:06 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: re: suspension ??? Jay wrote: <snip> "Do yourself a favor and get the Ground Control rear shock mounts. They'll allow you (without assistance) to remove the rear shocks from under the car for future adjustments." <snip> or RS RSM set-up Z3-to-E36 reinforcement plate with studs and an E46 RSM. The modified reinforcement lets you change them out from below. Ron sells a pair of modified reinforcements with four new nuts and four new gaskets. On aftermarket ones like Ground Control, Ron will (used to) mill out a .1 inch deep circle to accommodate the nut so that the locking nut fully covers the stud. Some use blue locktite instead. See the attached pic showing them on a M coupe as they come. Connect to Dale's image page: < www.unofficialbmw.com/images/ >and check out pics rsm1, rsm-1, and rsmmod-1>5 Kim L Burgess - no affiliations -
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#2. Re: [E36M3] How much rotor warp? - from Dave Kelley
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:20:42 -0400 From: "Dave Kelley" <d.kelley@usa.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How much rotor warp? Brian, Yes, it has been my experience that if you start to get .003 or more runout, you will feel some vibration when you apply the brakes hard, especially from high speeds. You will get different opinions on this, but I have had good success just having the rotors turned as long as there is sufficient stock. FYI, I do a lot of drivers schools and this works out fine. Dave > Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:06:27 -0700 > From: "McCarthy, Brian" <Brian.McCarthy@intermec.com> > Subject: How much rotor warp? > > Guys, > > How much runout is acceptable on the rotors? My rotors vary from 1.5 to 3 > thousandths of total travel. (runout?) ie: + - .75 to + - 1.5 > thousandths. The fronts are worst. > > After a recent track event, the brakes were "rumbly" when applied, and I > attributed it to toasted pads. I swapped the Jurid pads for PF97 pads this > weekend. The rumbling sound is still there. And now, I can feel some > steering wheel vibration under mild to aggressive braking. The pedal feels > slightly rough as well.. > > Q: Is 0.0015" to 0.003" runout a problem? > Q: Am I experiencing the traditional "warped rotor" phenomenon? > > Thanks! > Brian > '95 M3 > > > w/ new PF97 and Kuhmos, getting ready for Portland this weekend. Dave Kelley 98 M3/4 94 325i
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#3. Boiling Diff Fluid? - from twisty M3
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:30:39 -0700 From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> Subject: Boiling Diff Fluid? I've seen posts regarding this before, but had never paid much attention, as I never anticipated it being an issue. This weekend at California Speedway, however, I believe I may have boiled my differential fluid. I came in and parked after the last session and realized I had a small puddle under the rear of the car, coming from the diff. I moved it shortly after to see how fast it was coming out, and it had slowed down. Now there's no more dripping, so I'm assuming it was just boiling/overflowing? I will be having it looked at this weekend anyway, but if that's what happened, is it best to change the fluid once it's reached those kind of temps? I probably will anyway, just for peace of mind, but thought I'd check on the actual necessity of it. Any other ideas, comments and suggestions are welcome. Btw, the "competition course" at California Speedway is pretty incredible! I'd probably call it 17 turns, but I guess 21 sounds more appealing. ;) Either way, it was a great weekend! Jonathan L. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
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#4. Re: [E36M3] suspension ??? - from Dave Kelley
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:31:12 -0400 From: "Dave Kelley" <d.kelley@usa.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] suspension ??? Absolutely correct Jay. I just did the rear installation with Ground Control RSMs. I recommend this as a DIY. But Mike may want to have a shop do the fronts. With the requirements for a spring compressor and replacing the inserts in the original strut housings, I just had my shop do it, but I think they ended up over-charging me, about $400 labor!!!! I've got my rears set to almost full stiff. They are hard as a rock. I did one driver school with this setup and 1/2 turn from full stiff on the front and I really liked the handling. Just enough oversteer to get the car turned with a little trail braking on the corners. But stiff on the rear is way too harsh for normal street driving. I've been living with it because I haven't had the time to adjust them back to a softer setting and I don't know what a PITA in may be! Dave > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 07:11:11 -0700 > From: "Jay W. Hudson" <jwhud@cdsnet.net> > Subject: [E36M3] suspension ??? > > Since the car is skewed towards the track, I'd do at least a full turn on > the rear. Depends on the springs and sways settings. Do yourself a favor > and get the Ground Control rear shock mounts. They'll allow you (without > assistance) to remove the rear shocks from under the car for future > adjustments. I have H&R OE Sports, Koni SAs and RD sways. I have my rears > set 1/2 turn from full stiff for the track. It allows me to run the sways > softer and still control the body roll. > > Jay > > > >Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:35:00 EDT > >From: Raginglennie@aol.com > >Subject: suspension ??? > > > >Gruppe, > > > >I'm replacing my still original Boge struts/shocks with Koni' SA's in a > >couple of weeks (I can't wait to drive it after it actually has working > >shocks!!!). > > > >A couple of questions. First, what's a reasonable price to pay to have some > >one do this install. I know there is a significant amount of labor > >(especially for the fronts) and I'll also need an alignment after the > >transplant. Just curious about a ballpark in labor hours for this install. > > > >Second, where should I start with the settings. My understanding is that > the > >fronts are easily adjustable, but the rears need to be removed & compressed > >to adjust. The car is a '95 M3 & is not a daily driver. It's sees a > >combination of street & track time. I'm thinking full soft (or close to it) > >for the rears & I'll adjust the fronts as needed. Any advice? > > > >Thanks, > >Mike Bjerke > >'95 "shockless" Avus Blue M3 > > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > > > Dave Kelley 98 M3/4 94 325i
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? - from Ben Liaw - Rogue Engineering
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:50:07 -0400 From: "Ben Liaw - Rogue Engineering" <ben@rogueengineering.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? Boiling/dripping diff fluid is normal, when pushing standard E36 diffs at the track. Typically this means that the fluid is exceeding 300 deg F. According to Jim Blanton, the limited slip clutch packs don't like seeing extended temperatures of over 250 deg F. Of course, if you have a Quaife LSD, this does not apply. You can use an aftermarket differential cover for the E36 such as the one from Alpina or the one that we produce. This will greatly decrease fluid temperatures as well as prolong differential life. Regards, Ben Liaw Rogue Engineering . 201.444.8150 ----- Original Message ----- From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:31 PM Subject: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:30:39 -0700 > From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> > Subject: Boiling Diff Fluid? > > I've seen posts regarding this before, but had never paid much attention, as > I never anticipated it being an issue. This weekend at California Speedway, > however, I believe I may have boiled my differential fluid. > > I came in and parked after the last session and realized I had a small > puddle under the rear of the car, coming from the diff. I moved it shortly > after to see how fast it was coming out, and it had slowed down. Now > there's no more dripping, so I'm assuming it was just boiling/overflowing? > I will be having it looked at this weekend anyway, but if that's what > happened, is it best to change the fluid once it's reached those kind of > temps? I probably will anyway, just for peace of mind, but thought I'd > check on the actual necessity of it. Any other ideas, comments and > suggestions are welcome. > > Btw, the "competition course" at California Speedway is pretty incredible! > I'd probably call it 17 turns, but I guess 21 sounds more appealing. ;) > Either way, it was a great weekend! > > Jonathan L. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > >
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#6. E36 power steering question - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:08:14 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: E36 power steering question Folks, My wife's '98 328i has developed an engine bay groan that I suspect is emanating from the power steering system. It only happens when the car is warm, at low speed with RPMs below 900, and the car turning. Even a little turn will wake it up. I've checked the belts and they show no signs of slipping . Revving the engine up kills the groan, so I am inclined to rule out the serpentine belt. The system is filled to spec with OEM power steering (Dexron III) fluid. The fluid looked a bit murky and brownish to me (more so that in my '95 M3), but than again I do not know what color it was originally. I may drain it out and fill the system with RedLine/Mobil 1 Dexron III ATF anyway. Any other ideas? I think the only way to drain the old power steering fluid is by disconnecting one of the hoses from the pump. Which hose is the low pressure one (think or think one)? I would prefer to mess with the low pressure variety. TIA, alex f
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#7. Re: [E36M3] How much rotor warp? - from nabli@earthlink.net
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:17:37 -0400 From: <nabli@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How much rotor warp? As a point of reference, the BMW specs are as follows: Disc installed - 0.2mm max runout (0.2 Millimeters = 0.007874 Inches) Disc removed - .04mm max runout (0.04 Millimeters = 0.001575 Inches) Cheers, Jim E. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Kelley" <d.kelley@usa.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] How much rotor warp? > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:20:42 -0400 > From: "Dave Kelley" <d.kelley@usa.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] How much rotor warp? > > Brian, > > Yes, it has been my experience that if you start to get .003 or more > runout, you will feel some vibration when you apply the brakes hard, > especially from high speeds. > > You will get different opinions on this, but I have had good success just > having the rotors turned as long as there is sufficient stock. FYI, I do a > lot of drivers schools and this works out fine. > > Dave > > > Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:06:27 -0700 > > From: "McCarthy, Brian" <Brian.McCarthy@intermec.com> > > Subject: How much rotor warp? > > > > Guys, > > > > How much runout is acceptable on the rotors? My rotors vary from 1.5 to 3 > > thousandths of total travel. (runout?) ie: + - .75 to + - 1.5 > > thousandths. The fronts are worst. > > > > After a recent track event, the brakes were "rumbly" when applied, and I > > attributed it to toasted pads. I swapped the Jurid pads for PF97 pads this > > weekend. The rumbling sound is still there. And now, I can feel some > > steering wheel vibration under mild to aggressive braking. The pedal feels > > slightly rough as well.. > > > > Q: Is 0.0015" to 0.003" runout a problem? > > Q: Am I experiencing the traditional "warped rotor" phenomenon? > > > > Thanks! > > Brian > > '95 M3 > > > > > > w/ new PF97 and Kuhmos, getting ready for Portland this weekend. > Dave Kelley > 98 M3/4 > 94 325i > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > >
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? - from twisty M3
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:35:11 -0700 From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? I was actually talking finned diff covers with someone on Sunday afternoon. He said it may be a good idea, BUT that they can also be on more thing to worry about when you driver over "things." Does the finned diff cover have much less ground clearance than the stock unit? Jonathan L. >From: "Ben Liaw - Rogue Engineering" <ben@rogueengineering.com> > >You can use an aftermarket differential cover for the E36 such as the one >from Alpina or the one that we produce. This will greatly decrease fluid >temperatures as well as prolong differential life. > >Regards, >Ben Liaw >Rogue Engineering . 201.444.8150 > > > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? - from Ben Liaw - Rogue Engineering
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:18:26 -0400 From: "Ben Liaw - Rogue Engineering" <ben@rogueengineering.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? A stock E36 diff cover does not extend below the bottom of the differential housing at all. In order to gain the increased capacity for the additional fluid, as well as adding the fins, our diff cover extends exactly 2-1/4" lower than the stock one. In comparison, an M Roadster/Coupe differential cover (no additional capacity, only extended fins) hangs down 1-1/8" lower than a stock E30 cover. Regards, Ben Liaw Rogue Engineering . 201.444.8150 > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:35:11 -0700 > From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? > > I was actually talking finned diff covers with someone on Sunday afternoon. > He said it may be a good idea, BUT that they can also be on more thing to > worry about when you driver over "things." Does the finned diff cover have > much less ground clearance than the stock unit? > > Jonathan L. > > > >From: "Ben Liaw - Rogue Engineering" <ben@rogueengineering.com> > > > >You can use an aftermarket differential cover for the E36 such as the one > >from Alpina or the one that we produce. This will greatly decrease fluid > >temperatures as well as prolong differential life. > > > >Regards, > >Ben Liaw > >Rogue Engineering . 201.444.8150 > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as the > subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > >
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:29:49 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I was actually talking finned diff covers with someone on Sunday > afternoon. He said it may be a good idea, BUT that they can also > be on more thing to worry about when you driver over "things." > Does the finned diff cover have much less ground clearance than > the stock unit? Jonathan, Hell yes! A friend cracked his M Coupe diff cover on track transitioning between the oval to the road section of TWS. Some fluid may escape through the weep hole IFF the diff had been overfilled in the first place. Has the original poster tried checking the diff fluid level after the 'boiling' incident? How low was it? None of the local CR I know ever had any issues 'boiling' the diff fluid. Does anyone know what PTG did for its diff covers? alex f -- to slow to boil diff fliud ;-) >From: "Ben Liaw - Rogue Engineering" <ben@rogueengineering.com> >You can use an aftermarket differential cover for the E36 such as the one >from Alpina or the one that we produce. This will greatly decrease fluid >temperatures as well as prolong differential life. > >Regards, >Ben Liaw
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#11. Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:41:42 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Boiling Diff Fluid? At 09:31 AM 8/20/02, twisty M3 wrote: >I came in and parked after the last session and realized I had a small >puddle under the rear of the car, coming from the diff. I moved it >shortly after to see how fast it was coming out, and it had slowed >down. Now there's no more dripping, so I'm assuming it was just >boiling/overflowing? Yep. Had similar happen for a couple of events on the race car. >I will be having it looked at this weekend anyway, but if that's what >happened, is it best to change the fluid once it's reached those kind of >temps? I found it helped. Changed the fluid, and the next event was an open-lapping day, so more than normal track time. Not problem at that event. >I probably will anyway, just for peace of mind, but thought I'd check on >the actual necessity of it. Any other ideas, comments and suggestions are >welcome. I would say fresh fluid is a good place to start. Jim