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#1. Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath - from Mel Myers
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Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:29:28 -0500 From: Mel Myers <melmyers76@netscape.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath The Euro rotors will not warp, get them. try the HP + pads, they seem to help as well. Not sure if they take some of the heat from going to the rotors, or what is going on there, but they do seem to help. -Mel Zachary Eyler-Walker wrote: >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:45:36 -0400 (EDT) >From: Zachary Eyler-Walker <zwalker@cs.utk.edu> >Subject: Driver's ed aftermath > >I was at a PCA event at VIR south and full course last weekend, and have >some questions. > >First, I warped my rotors. Again. On the south course. Again. This was >only my second event, and when this happened last time I solicited advice >about how to avoid warping the rotors in the future. Basically, I was >told to use the brakes hard and fast, for the minimum time, rather than >riding them more softly and not allowing them time to cool down. I was >close to threshold at all major braking points, sometimes (rarely) >touching ABS. And the bastards warped anyway. In retrospect, my rotors >only got hosed at my first event once I started braking hard and deep, not >when I was still getting a clue and starting braking before the first >marker. > >I was using Hawk HPS, which are pretty lame on the track. Not obviously >better than stock. They get extremely greasy after just a couple hard >stops from 120+, and I had to really stand on the brakes to get the car to >slow down fast. > >Anyway, what next? Euro rotors (which, at 2.5x the cost, will hurt a lot >more to replace if they also warp)? Track pads (Maybe porterfield R4, >since I don't want to have to sandblast my bodywork to get the dust off)? >Cooling kit, or just remove the dust shields? Or is there some other >technique oriented thing I should try? Also, is it dangerous to run with >the warped rotors, or can I get away with it? I ran all day on the full >course with no noticeable side effects apart from a little shudder. > >The other thing is that I am now down an inch or two of coolant in the >tank. Should this concern me, or should I just dump in some distilled >water and not worry about it? There are no drips or superficially obvious >leaks, and the temp gauge was rock solid at 50% the whole time I was out. > >Fun weekend, despite these issues. I was turning what seemed like very >respectable laps and lap times, I met some cool people, and I feel like I >learned a lot. > >Thanks, > >Zach > > > >************************************************************* >List Commands >UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. >DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. >GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). > >To issue a command/request to the server: >Send a message with the command you wish executed as the >subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. >************************************************************* > > >
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#2. Driver's ed aftermath - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:38:07 -0400 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Driver's ed aftermath Like Carey said, Id bet its material transfer thats creating the judder. Heres how to make sure. Just try and rebed them in again on the street. Basically, you want to do a series of hard stops, just shy of where youd trigger the abs, say, from 40 or 50mph down to about 5mph. After about 6 or 8 of these hard stops, take it out on the big roads, and I bet youll find that the judder is gone. If its not, then they really are warped. Since this started happening to me, I always brake now hard and fast. Passengers think Im a rough driver, but it keeps the brakes smooth :--) Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio
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#3. Road Atlanta, Petit Le Man update - from Tim Ng
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:06:46 -0700 From: "Tim Ng" <s14realm3@peachtreebmwcca.org> Subject: Road Atlanta, Petit Le Man update I went to watch some practice today @ Road A. Meet up with James Clay(Bimmerworld) watched him dice it up with those buzz bomb Mazda Protege and Hondas ricecars. He went into turn 1 so fast that he forgot to brake!! just kidding, he was trying to keep up with Fitzgerald going into turn 1, locked up the brakes and slid straight off into the gravel. no damage. There were 2 car fires that was cool!!! Do you have your fire extinguishers working!!!! Saw Bill Auberline and Tom Miller working for Panoz!!!! THose Ferraris are gorgeous!!!! I WOULD GIVE UP MY M3 FOR 1 OF THOSE!!!!. weather getting cold and damp as I left @ 6pm p.s. if anyone planning on going up saturday morning, there will be a road detour!!!!! beginning @ 9:00am, don't know what that's about BUT I am getting there before that to avoid that craziness!!!!! Tim Ng 95 BUZZNM3 92 325ic M-Technic 91 M3 street car 88 M3/2.5 track car Tim Ng 95 E36 M3 BzznM3 92 E30 325ic M-tech convetible 91 E30 M3 street car 88 E30 M3 Track car 93 Chevy Blazer 2 dr. tow vehicle
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#4. RE: A032R Chunked - from Bob Stommel
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Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:35:39 -0500 From: Bob Stommel <rstommel@iquest.net> Subject: RE: A032R Chunked Dave: Two causes: (1) too little static negative front camber. For the track, 3 degrees negative in front is just about perfect for the E36 M3. If you can't get there, then try to get to at least 2.5 degrees. Remember that the more negative camber you have in the front, the better the car will handle in the corners and the more even the tire wear will be on the track, but the more difficult it will be to control the car under braking. 3 degrees negative is a good compromise (just remember to set it back to around 1.5 for daily driving on the street.) (2) full tread A032R tires. The tread depth is pretty deep on this tire for use on a dry track. If you want better tread life on a dry track tire, get the tire shaved to 3/32 or 4/32 inch depth. Yeah, I know, this doesn't seem right, but it is. The shallower tread on a shaved tire will not "squirm" and peel like the full depth tread will, which makes the shaved tire last longer. Drive the car to the track on full tread tires (in case it rains) and throw the shaved tires in the car for dry track use. Bob Stommel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:44:41 -0500 From: David Foos <David.Foos@prairiecomm.com> Subject: A032R Chunked Hi All, I'm new to the list although I've been around the 'club' for a while. (Note: this was also x-posted to the UUCDigest) During the Motor City School this weekend at Grattan, I corded my Left-Front A032R tire (turn 1). The set was brand new, with the exception of being heat cycled and 'scrubbed-in' one evening at Gingerman. I was a bit surprised by the way the tire separated into evenly spaced sections, approximately 2x2" in size. Has anyone ever seen this before (see link below)? http://my.core.com/~mfoos/bad_tire.jpg I'm still running stock camber, and I know I need to add some additional camber for the track. How much should I be shooting for? I'm guessing around -3 deg. -Dave 95 M3 BTW: The MC school this weekend was great fun! Thanks to anyone who was involved in its preparation/operation.
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#5. [E36M3] Re:JV versus Par Intake - from Roger W. Graves
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Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 19:44:45 -0400 From: "Roger W. Graves" <rogracer@earthlink.net> Subject: [E36M3] Re:JV versus Par Intake On 10/9/02 6:20 PM, "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:55:19 -0700 (PDT) > From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> > Subject: JC intake vs PAR intake > > Ok, > > Here's the deal. I have the chance to pick up a used > JC euro hfm intake setup locally. However, my friend > Pete makes the PAR intake setup, which I've heard is > pretty nice and very similar to the ECIS setup. > > Price difference between the two is $150. Is it worth > the extra cash to get the JC intake? Both have heat > shields, etc. > > -josh > > ===== > Josh Wyte > Momentum Motorsports > 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST Tough call. I have the JC intake and have seen the PAR set-up. If the used JC set-up is in good shape, I think I'd spend the extra. The PAR set-up appears to be a good value, but the shield in the JC set-up is better fitting and I think the ITG filter is superior to the K&N knock-off in the PAR. Just IMO. Roger
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath - from Bob Lenarcik
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:24:31 -0700 From: "Bob Lenarcik" <lenarcik@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath Euro rotors most certainly do warp. BTDT. I only use Brembo front rotors now ($45.00 each). Cheaper than pads. - Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Myers" <melmyers76@netscape.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath > Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:29:28 -0500 > From: Mel Myers <melmyers76@netscape.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath > > The Euro rotors will not warp, get them. try the HP + pads, they seem > to help as well. Not sure if they take some of the heat from going to > the rotors, or what is going on there, but they do seem to help. > > -Mel
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath - from Mel Myers
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Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:33:35 -0500 From: Mel Myers <melmyers76@netscape.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath <html> <head> </head> <body> Ive tried all my old tricks that used to warp my stock rotors (like no air ducting, high ambient temps, riding the brake pedal, hoosiers, stock class lap records, ect.), and I just can't get the Euros to warp. I went through 3 sets of stock rotors before I figured it out.<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> Bob Lenarcik wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:001701c26ff3$69b5bf90$73fe010a@lenarcikxp"> <pre wrap="">Euro rotors most certainly do warp. BTDT. I only use Brembo front rotors now<br>($45.00 each). Cheaper than pads.<br><br>- Bob<br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "Mel Myers" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:melmyers76@netscape.net"><melmyers76@netscape.net></a><br>To: "E36M3" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:e36m3@bmw-m.net"><e36m3@bmw-m.net></a><br>Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:40 PM<br>Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath<br><br><br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:29:28 -0500<br>From: Mel Myers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:melmyers76@netscape.net"><melmyers76@netscape.net></a><br>Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's ed aftermath<br><br>The Euro rotors will not warp, get them. try the HP + pads, they seem<br>to help as well. Not sure if they take some of the heat from going to<br>the rotors, or what is going on there, but they do seem to help.<br><br>-Mel<br></pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----><br><br></pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>
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#8. Re: JC intake vs PAR intake - from Rob
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:42:04 -0600 From: "Rob" <speedmaster@telus.net> Subject: Re: JC intake vs PAR intake Josh wrote: >Here's the deal. I have the chance to pick up a used JC euro hfm intake setup locally. However, my friend Pete makes the PAR intake setup, which I've heard is pretty nice and very similar to the ECIS setup. Price difference between the two is $150. Is it worth the extra cash to get the JC intake? Both have heat shields, etc.< Not even close!!!!! Buy the JC and never look back, or get the budget kit (we are talking about parts for an ///M3, right??!?) and wonder what your car could be like with a proper kit. There is much more to the JC kit that nice fit and finish! Rob - A very happy JC user for 7 years :)
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Re: JC intake vs PAR intake - from Peter Guagenti
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Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 17:57:54 -0700 From: Peter Guagenti <peter@guagenti.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: JC intake vs PAR intake on 10/9/02 5:40 PM, Rob at speedmaster@telus.net wrote: > > Not even close!!!!! Buy the JC and never look back, or get the budget kit > (we are talking about parts for an ///M3, right??!?) and wonder what your > car could be like with a proper kit. There is much more to the JC kit that > nice fit and finish! You're nuts. I've used both kits and _on the same car_ and the ECIS and JC were equal. Dyno tests have proven it. The JC kit has superior fit and finish, and holds up better over time, but they are definitely very close performance-wise. -peterg '95 M3 (ECIS Euro Intake) '96 328i (JC Intake)
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Re: JC intake vs PAR intake - from Rob
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:06:25 -0600 From: "Rob" <speedmaster@telus.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: JC intake vs PAR intake Peter wrote: > You're nuts. I've used both kits and _on the same car_ and the ECIS and JC > were equal. Dyno tests have proven it. The JC kit has superior fit and > finish, and holds up better over time, but they are definitely very close > performance-wise. Peter, sorry that we agree to disagree on this. I have just dyno tested both the ECIS and the JC intakes, and the JC won by a substantial margin. I don't boubt that on some cars both might make similar *peak* numbers, but I am sure that the area under the curve will be much better with the JC. Either way, we are talking about expensive BMW Motorsport cars here, who wouldn't want to spend a few bucks more for the nicer product? Rob