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#1. Stock brakes and track schools - from Jon Phillips
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:45:15 -0700 From: jon@maximumpc.com (Jon Phillips) Subject: Stock brakes and track schools Hi all... I have a 97 with some rudimentary mods (CAI, chip, exhaust, Konis). Took a Russell Racing class at Sears Point a few weeks ago, and my completely stock brakes held up fine -- albeit through limited driving (two 30-35 minute sessions, including cool down laps and about a 10 minute brake in between sessions). Hopefully I'll get into the next club school at Sears Point, and this is a TWO-day school. First question: Do stock pads and rotors usually make it through a two-day school? I have Super Blue fluid, BTW. I figure because each run group only gets 25 minutes or so, the brakes never get too hot to warp rotors. Correct? Second question: For regular street driving and maybe 2-3 schools a year, what's the most sensible brake upgrade. Remember, I have completely stock E36 M3 brakes. Thanks! -Jon
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools - from Chester Wong
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools > First question: Do stock pads and rotors usually make it through a two-day > school? I have Super Blue fluid, BTW. I figure because each run group only > gets 25 minutes or so, the brakes never get too hot to warp rotors. Correct? That thought is misleading. There is a certain temp the rotors are going to get by picking up heat under braking and then losing the heat when the brakes aren't in use. Whether you lose your brakes or not depends on the course (lots of straights or sections with no braking or a small/tight course with lots of braking) and how hard you're driving. You can get your brakes up to temp within a lap or two. When you really heat up the brakes, other things start getting hot like wheels. It's fun when you pull into the pits and you can't touch the wheels =) > Second question: For regular street driving and maybe 2-3 schools a year, > what's the most sensible brake upgrade. Remember, I have completely stock > E36 M3 brakes. Best upgrade will be a set of dedicated rotors for the front with a set of track pads. If you start to run too hot and melt seals, etc, you might want to consider cooling ducts. Chester ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools - from John Van Houten
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:09:44 -0500 From: "John Van Houten" <jvh_lists@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools > First question: Do stock pads and rotors usually make it through a two-day > school? I have Super Blue fluid, BTW. I figure because each run group only > gets 25 minutes or so, the brakes never get too hot to warp rotors. Correct? Stock brakes will handle just about anything you through at them, especially with ducting. Stock pads on the other hand, will be OK for your first school or so, after that you should upgrade to a track pad. In a lap or two, brakes should be at their operating temp and can be overheated, etc. 25 min is more than enough time to get to brake fade and possible warpage. If the track is hard on brakes, I try and do a short, slow drive around the paddock to cool the brakes off before parking. In addition, I roll my car 1/2 a wheel rotation after it has been parked 5 min so the pads don't "bake" one section of the rotor. My last set of euro rotors last about 30 track days before I replaced them due to wear. > Second question: For regular street driving and maybe 2-3 schools a year, > what's the most sensible brake upgrade. Remember, I have completely stock > E36 M3 brakes. A brake ducting kit, such as those from Bimmerworld. That combined with Hawk/PF/Pagid/whatever track (not street/track) pads will hold up just fine. Don't use these pads on the street. I haven't had any fade problems on my 97 M3/4 since I added the ducting, even with both my wife (intermediate) and myself (instructing) driving the car all weekend. John
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#4. RE: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools - from Carey Probst
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:07:36 -0400 From: "Carey Probst" <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools You will get a lot of opinions on this but I'll try to be first. IMHO, for a new driver with a relatively stock car like yours the OEM brakes are fine providing you brake properly and don't do something really stupid like putting on the emergency brake after coming off the track. I've been driving my M3 for 3 years now at the track and am still on the OEM pads with 12 track days, 1 at NHIS, 11 at Watkins Glen. You may experience pad build up on the rotors after a school which will smooth out over time but feels like a warped rotor. I've had this on 3 different events but it always smooths out after a couple weeks. I don't drive slow at the Glen and can usually get to between 120 and 130 on the back straight before the busstop which is a fast drop to about 60. When I first started doing driving schools I bought of set of Pagid Sports to install after I wore out the stock pads the first weekend (based on reading horror stories on this list and the BMWUUC list about going through a set of pads in a weekend). They are still in my track box for when the brakes finally wear thin. At just over 30,000 miles it's not high mileage am still at about half thickness on the pads. For the guys with turbo/super charged M3s I can see needing track brakes and they would probably stop me faster but my skill level hasn't evolved that far (yet). I don't see a need to upgrade unless you really like spending money or really like the look of drilled or slotted rotors. I'll stick with stock since they don't crack like the cross drilled versions. Carey Probst, '99 M3/2, BMW CCA Patroon and Genesee Valley Chapters JC CAIed and Sharked, Stressed, Schrothed, Gauged, Hitched, X-Braced A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. -----Original Message----- From: Jon Phillips [mailto:jon@maximumpc.com] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 2:55 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:45:15 -0700 From: jon@maximumpc.com (Jon Phillips) Subject: Stock brakes and track schools Hi all... I have a 97 with some rudimentary mods (CAI, chip, exhaust, Konis). Took a Russell Racing class at Sears Point a few weeks ago, and my completely stock brakes held up fine -- albeit through limited driving (two 30-35 minute sessions, including cool down laps and about a 10 minute brake in between sessions). Hopefully I'll get into the next club school at Sears Point, and this is a TWO-day school. First question: Do stock pads and rotors usually make it through a two-day school? I have Super Blue fluid, BTW. I figure because each run group only gets 25 minutes or so, the brakes never get too hot to warp rotors. Correct? Second question: For regular street driving and maybe 2-3 schools a year, what's the most sensible brake upgrade. Remember, I have completely stock E36 M3 brakes. Thanks! -Jon ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message to the email address e36m3@bmw-m.net. *************************************************************
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:17:01 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools At 11:54 AM 10/21/02, Jon Phillips wrote: >First question: Do stock pads and rotors usually make it through a two-day >school? Yep, usually. What group do you think you'll be in? They should hold up for most anyone, except for maybe the quickest B & A group students. And Sears isn't too hard on brakes, either. >Second question: For regular street driving and maybe 2-3 schools a year, >what's the most sensible brake upgrade. Remember, I have completely stock >E36 M3 brakes. Stock pads & rotors should be OK for that type of usage. A relatively inexpensive upgrade is to go with a dedicated track pad - PF90/97 was my choice when I tracked the M3. With a set of dedicated front rotors and the track pads F & R, you should be set. Fresh brake fluid is also good insurance, and brake ducting helps, but I never ducted the M3 and had few problems with fade. Cheers, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 KP
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#6. sticking fifth gear gate - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:08:39 -0400 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: sticking fifth gear gate Dear friends, what used to be a sticky gate has now become a nonexistant gate when the car is cold. After driving for 15 minutes, bingo, the missing gate comes back, and the shifter which, when the car is cold, is flopped over to the right underneath fifth gear, now recenters itself under third. So I made and appointment at Competition BMW for next monday evening, and I'll leave it so that tues morn when they check it out, it will be cold, and they'll see the problem first hand. The srvc writer already made a lame comment about maybe having to check the fluid, as they just changed the fluid themselves in January! Besides, from reading the threads on bimmerforums, it appears that the only remedy is a new transmission, as has been mentioned on this board before. So, hopefully they will do their job and replace the transmission under warranty coverage of which I have 9 more months. If they refuse for whatever reason, instead of paying for an R&R myself which I guess would cost over $4000 complete even if its a remanned job, wouldnt I be better off taking it to an independant who would be more likely to be willing to take the cover off the transmission, and replace the spring and pin which is likely causing the problem? Dealers dont seem to want to go in there themselves. But I would guess that a spring replacment might cost me about 10 percent of what a new tranny would likely cost. Bummer... Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio
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#7. Shift knob light - from Bill
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:05:46 -0700 From: Bill <bill@screamingfist.com> Subject: Shift knob light I just experienced the tweaky shift knob light issue the other night -- and then it went out completely. A wire came loose by the coupling between the knob's wiring and the car's wiring. Didn't have time to fix it yet, but you might want to pull the leather boot and follow the wires from the knob down through the insulation to see if something's coming loose ... if it's the same problem for you, it should be a really quick fix with a bit of short wire, butt connectors, and pliers. :) -- Bill Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:49:01 -0700 (PDT) From: russell <driver8m3@yahoo.com> Subject: Sticking shifter [snip] one other thing i noticed for the 1st time is that the light in my shift knob is sort of sensitive, and often is not on. if i fiddle with the knob, i can make it come back on, but it seems to have a mind of its own; sometimes its on, sometimes its off. any thoughts? thanks, russell dakar 99
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#8. sticking shifter - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:13:09 -0400 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: sticking shifter Rich, >> still don't see how anything in this thread differs from my original comments<< Its not different. But what it does do is kind of show that many of us are being afflicted with the same problem. And that perhaps it needs to be elevated in publicity to the same status the RSMs, shock towers, and plastic '95 water pump impellors enjoy. And if my dealer decides to become a problem in covering this item for me, at least I have alot of evidence that others are afflicted with the same thing, and that other dealers have dealt with it by replacing it, and covering it under warranty. Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio
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#9. sticking shifter - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:28:27 -0400 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: sticking shifter Russell, >>i never noticed this before, but after seeing this discussion, i checked mine this morning. sure enough, if i push the shifter over to the right while in neutral, it sometimes gets "stuck" there (though it is easily "unstuck" with i light tap).<< Im sorry to say that youve got it too. It will be like this for awhile, but I promise you, before long, for the first 15 minutes after the car is started up when the car is cold, that sticky detente point will disappear completely. What we're finding is that when its cold, it stays there on the right hand side of the shift pattern until the car warms up and drives for about 15 minutes. During that time, you have to fish for third a bit, because that fifth gear detetente is used to help guide your lever into third. Without it, youre shifting into third without any guidance, and you DONT want to find first instead. Most guys just misshift into fifth and then bring it back to third, until it warms up. Ive gotten used to finding third this way, so its really not a problem for me. And if it stayed this way, that is, if the detente always came back after 15 minutes and didnt get any worse, Id probably be ok with it. But I have no proof that after a while, the detente doesnt disappear permanently. In your case, just follow its progress, and note when you lose the detente altogether. We know that some dealers have covered it if youre under warranty. I'll find out next week how they handle mine. Theyve been pretty good to me in that they did the complete weld fix to my rear shock tower tops under warranty. So, hopefully they'll do the right thing again. But if the fix really just involves replacing a little spring and pin inside the transmission near the top, if the dealer refuses to cover the repair and only offers to do an R&R at full price, Id want to try and see if an independant wouldnt be willing to undertake the spring fix. Id guess it would only cost around 10% of the complete R&R. I guess it would be too much to expect the dealer to take the tranny apart! Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools - from Jon Phillips
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Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:39:33 -0700 From: jon@maximumpc.com (Jon Phillips) Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stock brakes and track schools Thanks to everyone who contributed opinions/information!