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#1. Re: Koni's with Stock Springs - from Peter Fanning
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:59:44 -0800 From: Peter Fanning <p.fanning@verizon.net> Subject: Re: Koni's with Stock Springs I've been using stock springs and Koni Sports for a couple years. Our '98 M3/4 is a daily driver and track car. The first year and a half was stock springs, Konis and X-brace with shocks set ~1/2 turn from soft front and ~3/4 turn from soft rear. The car still moved towards understeer. This year I installed Kmacs and aligned the car to -2 degrees camber. The addition of more negative camber has moved the car very close to neutral towards oversteer. For multipurpose use this is a great setup. Rides as good or better than stock and handles better than stock. There aren't any negative tradeoffs with this setup. Peter Fanning '98 M3/4 At 05:14 AM 10/29/2002 -0500, E36M3 wrote: >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:16:31 -0500 >From: "Dave Kelley" <d.kelley@usa.net> >Subject: Koni's with Stock Springs > > > Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:36:10 -0800 > > From: Scott McClung <scott.mcclung@ubicom.com> > > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Upcoming work on the M3 - update > > (longish) > > > >SNIP > > > > > Hey - I work in Mt. View!! So do you have Koni's with > > stock springs? I've been wondering how that set-up would > > work out. > > > > > Scott > > '98 M3/4 > > > >Scott, > >I have Koni's with stock springs on my 98 M3/4. Like an idiot, I >installed them full stiff! What a mistake! I was at a Drivers School at >Carolina Motorsports Park last weekend and I felt like I was dirt >tracking. The rear end would not stick. But it sure was fun! Even with >the fronts shocks set full stiff, I could not even get close to getting rid >of the oversteer. SNIP >Just curious, though, along with Scott as to what strut/shock settings >others have used with stock springs for track use! > >Dave Kelley >98 M3/4 >94 325i
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#2. Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed - from David Ngo
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:59:35 -0800 (PST) From: David Ngo <rudngo@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed Oh, they most certainly can rub, even in stock sizes. I have 245/40-17 S-O3s on stock wheels on my '98 sedan with Eibach Pro-Kit springs and -2 deg. of camber all around. Fender rolling is definitely required and the tires still rub inside the fender (not on the lip.) With just me in the car it's not such a problem, but with passengers it happens all the time. The tires will even rub under hard acceleration with 4 people in the car. This did not happen with S-O2s. The S-O3s are *wide*. --- "Jay W. Hudson" <jwhud@cdsnet.net> wrote: > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:43:37 -0800 > From: "Jay W. Hudson" <jwhud@cdsnet.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice > needed > > I did mine with a tapered, wooden table leg. I got > it at the local home > improvement store. You might also want to have your > rear alignment > checked. Seems ood to me that stock size tires on > stock wheels would rub. > Even if the car is lowered some. The S03s may be a > little wider. Jay __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
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#3. Re: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon!! - from Nsxlr8@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:04:34 EST From: Nsxlr8@aol.com Subject: Re: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon!! Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:17:10 -0800 From: Scott McClung <scott.mcclung@ubicom.com> Subject: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon!! I just ordered a system from a local installer for my '98 M3. ... <snip> > What I'm getting: > > - JL Audio Stealth boxes made for the car w/ 8" subs > http://www.jlaudio.com/stealthbox/3series.html > > Scott > '98 M3/4 > '94 Q45 > '02 Suburban > '91 Corvette > Scott- The link for the stealth boxes indicates they will not work on 97-98 sedans (4-door). I have a '98 sedan as well and wonder why there's a difference and if, in fact, the statement is true. Pardon my newbie status if this has been discussed before. Jeff Bjerke '98 M "three quarters"
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Stereo upgrade to be installed soon - from Jason Knight
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:04:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Knight <knight2244@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stereo upgrade to be installed soon While stereo discussion is on the table, I've found that my system, which was just installed, has a humming noise when there is a gap in the music that appears to be directly related to engine rpms. I've noticed this in previous (lesser) vehicles I've owned when listnening to AM and going under a bridge. I know next to nothing of electronics, but I'm guess this is a result of improper grounding. Can anyone confirm this? Or could something else be the cause? And more importantly, is there a way to alleviate this? Thanks, Jason --- Paul Elliott <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:58:22 -0500 > From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> > Subject: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon > > >> I'm really looking forward to having > decent tunes in my daily driver << > > > Good luck on your sounds! I think youll see a nice > improvement. Only, most > of us have found that going with an aftermarket head > unit relegates the > radio function as often unlistenable with many of > our favorite stations! > Its because the dynamic antenna in the C pillar has > no hookup on aftermarket > head units. I dont know if Alpine is different, but > most of them, even if > the quality of the HU is vastly better, you wont get > to hear it because of > the degraded reception. Ive found that Blaupunkt, > somehow, provides quite > good reception despite the lack of the dynamic > antenna hookup. > > Let us know how you make out. BTW, you wont miss > rear fill at all. Ive got > the stealtboxes too, and if your front speakers are > decent, which your MB > quartz certainly are, they will provide all the > staging you need, and the > subs should provide the bass for you. BTW, you can > also use the stealths to > provide fill instead, as they can play mid ranges > fine. But dont use them > for that...Use them for bass, and bridge them for > extra punch. They'll play > in mono when bridged, but who cares; its sub bass!! > > Paul Elliott > --------------------------------------------------------- > '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with > 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 > psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse > FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan > Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound > by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > List Commands > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > from the mailing list. > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > list's GET directory. > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > requested file(s). > > To issue a command/request to the server: > Send a message with the command you wish executed as > the > subject of the message to the email address > e36m3@bmw-m.net. > ************************************************************* > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
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#5. Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed - from Chester Wong
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:12:27 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed Seems like I beat on Dave's car more than he does as I was able to get the tires to rub when I got my M3-fix =) BTW, she's going to get painted tomorrow...woo hoo! Now comes the long process of cleaning out the car...soooooo soooooo dirty. Chester --- David Ngo <rudngo@yahoo.com> wrote: > with passengers it happens all the time. The tires > will even rub under hard acceleration with 4 people in > the car. ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Stereo upgrade to be installed soon - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:17:14 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stereo upgrade to be installed soon Sounds like alternator whine, but I really dont know. One thing you can try which may lessen its effect is to try and readjust your gains. I found that by turning down the gain at the amp, I removed any hum that was present. It meant turning up the volume at the head unit, but this didnt elevate the hum, the way turning up the gain at the amp would. Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Knight" <knight2244@yahoo.com> To: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net>; "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stereo upgrade to be installed soon > While stereo discussion is on the table, I've found > that my system, which was just installed, has a > humming noise when there is a gap in the music that > appears to be directly related to engine rpms. I've > noticed this in previous (lesser) vehicles I've owned > when listnening to AM and going under a bridge. I > know next to nothing of electronics, but I'm guess > this is a result of improper grounding. Can anyone > confirm this? Or could something else be the cause? > And more importantly, is there a way to alleviate > this? > > Thanks, Jason > > > --- Paul Elliott <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> > wrote: > > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:58:22 -0500 > > From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> > > Subject: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon > > > > >> I'm really looking forward to having > > decent tunes in my daily driver << > > > > > > Good luck on your sounds! I think youll see a nice > > improvement. Only, most > > of us have found that going with an aftermarket head > > unit relegates the > > radio function as often unlistenable with many of > > our favorite stations! > > Its because the dynamic antenna in the C pillar has > > no hookup on aftermarket > > head units. I dont know if Alpine is different, but > > most of them, even if > > the quality of the HU is vastly better, you wont get > > to hear it because of > > the degraded reception. Ive found that Blaupunkt, > > somehow, provides quite > > good reception despite the lack of the dynamic > > antenna hookup. > > > > Let us know how you make out. BTW, you wont miss > > rear fill at all. Ive got > > the stealtboxes too, and if your front speakers are > > decent, which your MB > > quartz certainly are, they will provide all the > > staging you need, and the > > subs should provide the bass for you. BTW, you can > > also use the stealths to > > provide fill instead, as they can play mid ranges > > fine. But dont use them > > for that...Use them for bass, and bridge them for > > extra punch. They'll play > > in mono when bridged, but who cares; its sub bass!! > > > > Paul Elliott > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with > > 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 > > psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse > > FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan > > Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound > > by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > List Commands > > UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you > > from the mailing list. > > DIR - sends a listing of files available in the > > list's GET directory. > > GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the > > requested file(s). > > > > To issue a command/request to the server: > > Send a message with the command you wish executed as > > the > > subject of the message to the email address > > e36m3@bmw-m.net. > > > ************************************************************* > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ >
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#7. E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:23:27 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed Colin, >>Well, I just installed stock tires sized S03s (225/45, 245/40) on my '98 M3 with a Dinan Stage 1 suspension (with stock wheels) and the rear driver's side is just rubbing about a 2" section of the fender lip. (It makes kind of loud noises when cornering hard though, and that's how I noticed it was rubbing.)<< The reason your rubbing is that the S03s have a slightly wider tread width section than the pilot sports, despite being the same size. The bat will work. I used a different method. I had about a quarter to a half inch gap between the rubber and the finder lip. This was the perfect size gap to fit the claws of a claw hammer in. Using the tire top as the fulcrum, I just put downward force on the handle, making sure the claws were contacting the lip portion inside the fender. I would just press down, then move the hammer over slightly, and repeat, until the whole portion of the lip where the rubbing is occuring has been flattened. Worked perfectly. And I had it worse because I had graduated to fikse rims, which have a 37.7mm offset, which moves the tires outboard by 3.3mm over the stock 41mm rims. Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio
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#8. Re: E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:24:58 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed on 10/29/02 11:04 AM, Colin_S_Whelan@rrfc.raytheon.com wrote: > Well, I just installed stock tires sized S03s (225/45, 245/40) on my '98 M3 > with a Dinan Stage 1 suspension (with stock wheels) and the rear driver's > side is just rubbing about a 2" section of the fender lip. (It makes kind > of loud noises when cornering hard though, and that's how I noticed it was > rubbing.) > > Should I use: > > 1) the handle of wooden bat to slightly roll this section > 2) tap it with a heavy rubber mallet (dead blow hammer) Neither. First try using the eccentric adjuster at the outside end of the rear lower control arm to get a little more negative camber. Only if that fails use option #1. Don't even think about option #2. Neil 96 M3 - rolled fenders with Haweka tool
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#9. Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed - from Perry Shang
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:24:03 +0000 From: "Perry Shang" <scsi_one@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed Call Tire Rack and rent their fender rolling tool. I used it. It is so much easier with the tool. _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
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#10. fender rolling - from James Clay
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:37:05 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: fender rolling We have a nice fender rolling machine (bought from Tire Rack). It is by FAR the best way to roll them. We can get either a moderate roll of just the angled piece, a pinch roll that gets the whole lip, or even pull the entire quarter out slightly for really big tires. You can also position it inside the fender and roll the inner liner where it typically rubs. The finished results are much nicer - get on the waiting list for this if you can (Tire Rack) or we offer the service at the track on school weekends. James -------------------------------------------------------------------- James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com Engineered BMW Performance Genuine and OEM BMW Parts 540.639.9648 -------------------------------------------------------------------- We now carry a full line of DEC catalytic converters - now offering free shipping on these parts through the end of the year.
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#11. Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed - from cteague@cox.net
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:39:21 -0500 From: <cteague@cox.net> Subject: Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed If they are rubbing only on the inner steel fender liner up front, be sure to check your toe-in. Too much toe-in, even with stock sized 245's can cause the tire to rub. Similarly, not enough camber can cause them to rub on the outer fender. Chris 97 M3/4 > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:59:35 -0800 (PST) > From: David Ngo <rudngo@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Rolling Fenders - Advice needed > > Oh, they most certainly can rub, even in stock sizes. > I have 245/40-17 S-O3s on stock wheels on my '98 sedan > with Eibach Pro-Kit springs and -2 deg. of camber all > around. Fender rolling is definitely required and the > tires still rub inside the fender (not on the lip.) > With just me in the car it's not such a problem, but > with passengers it happens all the time. The tires > will even rub under hard acceleration with 4 people in > the car. > > This did not happen with S-O2s. The S-O3s are *wide*.
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#12. [E36M3] Rolling Fender - update! - from Colin_S_Whelan@rrfc.raytheon.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:53:38 -0500 From: Colin_S_Whelan@rrfc.raytheon.com Subject: [E36M3] Rolling Fender - update! Hi everyone, Thanks for all the great responses! Well, I was just out in the work parking lot, jacking up each rear wheel checking out where exactly the rubbing was occurring. The fender does just barely touch the tire - it leaves a tiny line on my tire amorall black stuff. A tiny tap somewhere should fix this. The noise is definitely coming from the shock dust boot though! The tire is actually rubbing that - it is nice and worn and it's clearly tapping the inside of the fender when the tire rubs it. I tried to reposition it, since the other side wasn't rubbing. Here's a question though - who has a washer/spacer between the lower shock mounting hole and the control arm, where it attaches? The washer is a spacer to move the shock inboard about 1-2mm. My stock M3 shocks didn't have it. My Dinan shocks (Koni) didn't come with it. My friends Dinan (Koni) shocks did! This would clearly give me the clearance that I need. [Control arm]-(washer)-SHOCK--(bolt) Any thoughts? Thanks, Colin
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#13. A new record? Replacing an E36M3 - very long but a good story - from Wayne Miller
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:10:58 -0500 From: "Wayne Miller" <m3@waynemiller.com> Subject: A new record? Replacing an E36M3 - very long but a good story It has been just over three months since totaling my E36M3 in Turn 10 at Watkins Glen. Like it or not, State Farm paid me in full for the car and I started looking for my new ride. I knew that I would likely have to wait until the end of October to get just past the 3 year anniversary from my previous accident before applying for new insurance so I happily drove my dad's new MINI Cooper S while looking around for replacement E36M3's. The MINI Cooper S is a fun car. It handles amazingly for a stock car, it is quick, and it attracts a lot of attention (though less now than in July when they were really new and more rare). I had looked at a few E36M3's and was deciding on what color I wanted (I was leaning towards green or Techno Violet) and was having trouble deciding whether to go with a '99 or earlier '96-'98 car. I like the steering wheel on the '99's but the earlier cars were less expensive for what was virtually the same car. Someone made a good point that the '99s may cost more now but they also be worth more when I go to sell it. I was very close to purchasing a '97 car but it was over 1,000 miles away (not necessarily a problem) and it had the luxury package (not crazy about that) and no heated seats (I have decided that I will never buy another car without them). I tracked down my old car to try and buy my old seats to put in the '97 car (the same Magma interior) but it had sold 4 times in less than 2 weeks and the current owner wouldn't sell them because he was going to put the car back together (he's in for a bit of a surprise in that one...). Then it happened. I was sitting at a light before the ramp to the highway that I am at every morning next to a Mitsubishi Eclipse GT. The light turned green and we both started accelerating. It was basically a dead heat between the MINI and the Eclipse. I decided right then that it was time to seriously start looking for a new car. The MINI was fun but just plain wasn't powerful enough for me. I quickly gave up on the idea of a Z06 Corvette a long time ago so that was out. My dad was pushing me to wait for the new Pontiac/Holden GTO but I want to drive that before I would seriously consider it and it is a ways away. I contacted a few dealers about '99M3's for sale and had some pictures E-mailed to me. I also looked on eBay thinking that it would be unlikely that I actually bought a car on eBay but what the heck. Out of curiosity, I checked out E46M3's to see what they go for and there was a nice black one for sale at a reasonable price (low 40's). My plan wasn't to spend that much but I figured that I can sell the E36M3 equipment that is currently filling my basement and that would make up for at least half of the difference, if not more. It turned out that the dealer was in Westchester, NY only about 45 minutes from me. That car sold to someone else but I checked out the dealer's Web site for other cars ( www.huntingridgemotors.com ). They just got in a beautiful Phoenix Yellow E46M3 and that was posted for sale on eBay. The car is a loaded '01 (03/01 production) with 18,000 miles and looked like it was in good condition. I called and asked what they were looking to get and it was a good deal in the mid 40's. I said that I was interested and they brought the car to my office for me to check out. It was beautiful and in virtually brand new condition. I drove it and it felt fine too. I had the VIN run through a BMW dealer to find out that it was properly serviced with only two minor problems and, as a bonus, it has the CPO 100,000 mile warranty which the seller didn't even know about (good thing they had already agreed on the price when I told them). This was going to be my replacement car but I now had to work out the insurance. The insurance was a problem. Not because of my accident but because obtaining new insurance in NJ is EXTREMELY difficult if you don't already have insurance. I called around and the people that would give me a quote were all over the place with Allstate being the highest at....are you ready.....$8,200/year!!!! There was no way that I was going to buy a car that cost me $8,200/year to insure so I decided to go with the lowest quote that I could find ($4,800/year) and then apply to other carriers that I had to wait 4-6 weeks for a quote from. As a last resort, I called the last place that a friend recommended. I figured that they were going to be high but what the heck, I had nothing to lose. Imagine my surprise when they quoted me $3,400/year (and that is with a 10% first year surcharge that they put on all customers so it will be even less next year). I jumped at the chance and got everything ready for the application. We had to wait until 1 day after the 3 year anniversary to officially apply and then sent in the application. Just for curiosity, I asked how much it would have been without my accident and it would only have been a few hundred dollars cheaper. The wait was on because it takes about 10 days to get the insurance binder. By this point, I had already paid for the car but I couldn't take it from the dealer without the insurance. The first few days were okay and then I started to get antsy but there was nothing that I could do. I got the word on Friday morning that the insurance came through but I was going away for the weekend so I had to wait until Monday to pick the car up. Yesterday, I headed up to the dealer with Chester at the end of the day to pick it up. We got there and spoke to one of the owners for a long time. The people there are really nice and they sell a good amount of cars for such a small place. On the way home, I pulled off the highway to switch places with Chester and while sitting at the top of the on-ramp hesitating about stopping there, a Jeep Grand Cherokee comes flying around the corner in front of us, tires screeching and all. I then start on the ramp slowly and Chester tells me to pull over to the side. Seconds later, a police car comes flying around the corner and accelerates past us chasing the Jeep. I then nail it to reel in the police car on the ramp and quickly decide that that is not the best idea. So within about 15 minutes of picking up the car, it almost gets hit by someone evading the police. Luckily almost doesn't count. We end up sitting in traffic for a while and then heading to Chester's house. On the way, Chester and Harold convince me to put on the AA exhaust that Chester has at his house (I already have one at my house waiting but we figured that we could do this one now and then I will give Chester the other one). We get there and swap exhausts, only to find out that I already had a broken exhaust hangar but Chester had a spare. I wasn't sure that I would like the AA exhaust but I have to say that it sounds GREAT!!! It sounded like a race car going through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel and I don't think that it drones at all. This morning, with the engine sputtering on startup, it again sounded like a race car. In normal cruising, it isn't too much louder than stock so I am very happy. So my new record is modifying my car within 3 hours of purchasing it and before I even got home! Oh, no....not again.... So there you have it, I have now joined the E46M3 club but I have no intention of leaving this list or the E36M3 community. I have only driven my car for about 50 miles so I don't have any real impressions other than it is very fast and the steering is a bit over boosted. I haven't taken any good pictures yet but some can be found here: http://www.huntingridgemotors.com/soldcars.php?cat=vintage&carid=341&sub cat=bmw Personally, I love the color and it looks better, (read, less green) in person than in the pictures. I think that it looks like a metallic spicy brown mustard (like Guldens). -Wayne '01 E46M3 Phoenix Yellow/Black
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#14. RE: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon!! - from Scott McClung
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:30:20 -0800 From: Scott McClung <scott.mcclung@ubicom.com> Subject: RE: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon!! Well, it also says they won't fit a '99 - and I've heard they fit OK in a '99. I'll find out next week - I'm betting the installer can make them work - he didn't mention anything about them not working in certain cars, and they are a JL dealer. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Nsxlr8@aol.com [mailto:Nsxlr8@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:05 AM To: e36m3@bmw-m.net; scott.mcclung@ubicom.com Subject: Re: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon!! Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:17:10 -0800 From: Scott McClung <scott.mcclung@ubicom.com> Subject: Stereo upgrade to be installed soon!! I just ordered a system from a local installer for my '98 M3. ... <snip> What I'm getting: - JL Audio Stealth boxes made for the car w/ 8" subs http://www.jlaudio.com/stealthbox/3series.html Scott '98 M3/4 '94 Q45 '02 Suburban '91 Corvette Scott- The link for the stealth boxes indicates they will not work on 97-98 sedans (4-door). I have a '98 sedan as well and wonder why there's a difference and if, in fact, the statement is true. Pardon my newbie status if this has been discussed before. Jeff Bjerke '98 M "three quarters"