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#1. Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA - from Michael
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:22:27 -0500 From: "Michael" <95m3ltw@charter.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA I forwarded it to a lawyer buddy of mine here in GA and he stated that it would not hold a drop of water since a DE does not qualify for any of the 3. He is a PCA guy and stated that wording has been around since 97 in some policys. And he has yet to hear of anyone in this area ever losing coverage at a DE. Some have had to take it to court, but no-one was ever denied coverage for a DE. I think until they add DE in the wording, it doesnt bother me yet. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Byrum" <mycroft@academus.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:16:16 -0800 (PST) > From: Tom Byrum <mycroft@academus.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > I think you would lose. Parsed, this reads as: > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > the policy does not provide coverage for bodily injury or property damage > arising out of: > > the participation in any prearranged, organized, or spontaneous racing > or speed contest; > > when using the insured vehicle at a track or course designed for racing > or high performance driving; > > or in practice or preparation for any contest or use of this type. > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > The 'or' in the last line is what seals it. If ANY ONE of those three things is > true, the first sentence is effective and coverage is denied. You balk at the > word contest, but the second line doesn't mention contest at all, and that is > the one that rules out DE events entirely for this policy. > > Tom Byrum > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Michael wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:01:20 -0500 > > From: "Michael" <95m3ltw@charter.net> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > I would venture to say, worded the way it is, that they could NOT refuse > > coverage of a DS incident. They use the term CONTEST, which a DE is not > > and can be easily proven otherwise. Regardless of how they look at a DE, > > it doenst fit anything in that paragraph, even if the location is a race > > track. Which could be defined as a controlled learning area. > > > > I think I would take it to court to the last penny I had if they refused. > > > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Lilley" <m3steve@earthlink.net> > > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 3:56 PM > > Subject: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:50:03 -0500 > > > From: Steve Lilley <m3steve@earthlink.net> > > > Subject: Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > I just received a list of amendments to my Allstate Auto Insurance. > > > I remember reading about this exclusion in another state, but it > > > looks like it applies to PA as well now. > > > > > > Here's what Allstate sends to anyone renewing in Jan 2003: > > > Under "Exclusions -- What is not covered" in Part 1....we have > > > added an exclusion specifying that the policy does not provide > > > coverage for bodily injury or property damage arising out of > > > the participation in any prearranged, organized, or spontaneous > > > racing or speed contest; when using the insured vehicle at a > > > track or course designed for racing or high performance driving; > > > or in practice or preparation for any contest or use of this > > > type. > > > > > > Now I'm not a lawyer, but it now sounds like you are SOL if you are > > > a customer of Allstate-PA and you have an "incident" at a DE. Time > > > to reconsider American Collectors Insurance for DE coverage: > > > > > > http://www.americancollectorsins.com/driversed.htm > > > > > > Regards, > > > Steve > > > m3steve@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA - from Tom Byrum
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Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:35:29 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Byrum <mycroft@academus.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA I am curious as to how a DE does not qualify as use of the vehicle at a track designed for high performance driving. You may have more boring DEs than I am used to. Peachtree chapter does have DEs at Road Atlanta, doesn't it? Road Atlanta is not only designed for high performance driving, but racing. Tom Byrum On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Michael wrote: > I forwarded it to a lawyer buddy of mine here in GA and he stated that it > would not hold a drop of water since a DE does not qualify for any of the 3. > He is a PCA guy and stated that wording has been around since 97 in some > policys. And he has yet to hear of anyone in this area ever losing > coverage at a DE. Some have had to take it to court, but no-one was ever > denied coverage for a DE. I think until they add DE in the wording, it > doesnt bother me yet. > > Mike > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > the policy does not provide coverage for bodily injury or property damage > > arising out of: > > > > the participation in any prearranged, organized, or spontaneous racing > > or speed contest; > > > > when using the insured vehicle at a track or course designed for racing > > or high performance driving; > > > > or in practice or preparation for any contest or use of this type. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > > > The 'or' in the last line is what seals it. If ANY ONE of those three > things is > > true, the first sentence is effective and coverage is denied. You balk at > the > > word contest, but the second line doesn't mention contest at all, and that > is > > the one that rules out DE events entirely for this policy. > > > > Tom Byrum > > > > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Michael wrote: > > > > > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:01:20 -0500 > > > From: "Michael" <95m3ltw@charter.net> > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > I would venture to say, worded the way it is, that they could NOT refuse > > > coverage of a DS incident. They use the term CONTEST, which a DE is > not > > > and can be easily proven otherwise. Regardless of how they look at a > DE, > > > it doenst fit anything in that paragraph, even if the location is a race > > > track. Which could be defined as a controlled learning area. > > > > > > I think I would take it to court to the last penny I had if they > refused. > > > > > > Mike > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Lilley" <m3steve@earthlink.net> > > > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 3:56 PM > > > Subject: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:50:03 -0500 > > > > From: Steve Lilley <m3steve@earthlink.net> > > > > Subject: Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > > > I just received a list of amendments to my Allstate Auto Insurance. > > > > I remember reading about this exclusion in another state, but it > > > > looks like it applies to PA as well now. > > > > > > > > Here's what Allstate sends to anyone renewing in Jan 2003: > > > > Under "Exclusions -- What is not covered" in Part 1....we have > > > > added an exclusion specifying that the policy does not provide > > > > coverage for bodily injury or property damage arising out of > > > > the participation in any prearranged, organized, or spontaneous > > > > racing or speed contest; when using the insured vehicle at a > > > > track or course designed for racing or high performance driving; > > > > or in practice or preparation for any contest or use of this > > > > type. > > > > > > > > Now I'm not a lawyer, but it now sounds like you are SOL if you are > > > > a customer of Allstate-PA and you have an "incident" at a DE. Time > > > > to reconsider American Collectors Insurance for DE coverage: > > > > > > > > http://www.americancollectorsins.com/driversed.htm > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve > > > > m3steve@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA - from Michael
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:48:11 -0500 From: "Michael" <95m3ltw@charter.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA From what I understand, it is not the fact you are on a race track, it is what type of event you are in or why are you there that counts? In the wording, being on a track that also functions as a race track doesnt exclude you from being covered. If it did, I can see them excluding your driveway, any private property, dirt road in the woods etc etc etc. I think folks are reading way too much into this, but then again if I end up being the one without coverage, maybe I didnt read enough into it nor did my legal buddy, lol. But I do know I would fight it to the end ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Byrum" <mycroft@academus.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:35:29 -0800 (PST) > From: Tom Byrum <mycroft@academus.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > I am curious as to how a DE does not qualify as use of the vehicle at a track > designed for high performance driving. You may have more boring DEs than I am > used to. Peachtree chapter does have DEs at Road Atlanta, doesn't it? Road > Atlanta is not only designed for high performance driving, but racing. > > Tom Byrum > > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Michael wrote: > > > I forwarded it to a lawyer buddy of mine here in GA and he stated that it > > would not hold a drop of water since a DE does not qualify for any of the 3. > > He is a PCA guy and stated that wording has been around since 97 in some > > policys. And he has yet to hear of anyone in this area ever losing > > coverage at a DE. Some have had to take it to court, but no-one was ever > > denied coverage for a DE. I think until they add DE in the wording, it > > doesnt bother me yet. > > > > Mike > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > ___ > > > the policy does not provide coverage for bodily injury or property damage > > > arising out of: > > > > > > the participation in any prearranged, organized, or spontaneous racing > > > or speed contest; > > > > > > when using the insured vehicle at a track or course designed for racing > > > or high performance driving; > > > > > > or in practice or preparation for any contest or use of this type. > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > ___ > > > > > > The 'or' in the last line is what seals it. If ANY ONE of those three > > things is > > > true, the first sentence is effective and coverage is denied. You balk at > > the > > > word contest, but the second line doesn't mention contest at all, and that > > is > > > the one that rules out DE events entirely for this policy. > > > > > > Tom Byrum > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Michael wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:01:20 -0500 > > > > From: "Michael" <95m3ltw@charter.net> > > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > > > I would venture to say, worded the way it is, that they could NOT refuse > > > > coverage of a DS incident. They use the term CONTEST, which a DE is > > not > > > > and can be easily proven otherwise. Regardless of how they look at a > > DE, > > > > it doenst fit anything in that paragraph, even if the location is a race > > > > track. Which could be defined as a controlled learning area. > > > > > > > > I think I would take it to court to the last penny I had if they > > refused. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Steve Lilley" <m3steve@earthlink.net> > > > > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 3:56 PM > > > > Subject: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:50:03 -0500 > > > > > From: Steve Lilley <m3steve@earthlink.net> > > > > > Subject: Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > > > > > I just received a list of amendments to my Allstate Auto Insurance. > > > > > I remember reading about this exclusion in another state, but it > > > > > looks like it applies to PA as well now. > > > > > > > > > > Here's what Allstate sends to anyone renewing in Jan 2003: > > > > > Under "Exclusions -- What is not covered" in Part 1....we have > > > > > added an exclusion specifying that the policy does not provide > > > > > coverage for bodily injury or property damage arising out of > > > > > the participation in any prearranged, organized, or spontaneous > > > > > racing or speed contest; when using the insured vehicle at a > > > > > track or course designed for racing or high performance driving; > > > > > or in practice or preparation for any contest or use of this > > > > > type. > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not a lawyer, but it now sounds like you are SOL if you are > > > > > a customer of Allstate-PA and you have an "incident" at a DE. Time > > > > > to reconsider American Collectors Insurance for DE coverage: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americancollectorsins.com/driversed.htm > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Steve > > > > > m3steve@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#4. [E36M3] Coolant Loss - from Colin_S_Whelan@rrfc.raytheon.com
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:34:48 -0500 From: Colin_S_Whelan@rrfc.raytheon.com Subject: [E36M3] Coolant Loss Hi everyone, We'll I seem to be losing a little bit of coolant. The level in the overflow tank dropped about 2 inches in ~800 miles. I smelled coolant while driving with the heat on twice for about 10 secs, but can't find a leak anywhere in the engine compartent - it doesn't even smell of coolant. If the heater core goes it should drip out of the A/C drip tube (where is this?) but I haven't seen a spot on my garage either. The windshield does not fog up. No coolant in the oil or vice versa. I was going to have the dealer do a pressure test or use some dye. Any thoughts? I know the radiator is suspect on these cars, but I don't see any signs of leaking around joints or the hoses... Thanks, Colin '98 M3/2 43K miles - only BMW coolant....
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Coolant Loss and coolant smell in heat - from Chris Papademetrious
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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 08:42:01 -0500 From: Chris Papademetrious <chrispy@ieee.org> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Coolant Loss and coolant smell in heat At 06:36 AM 1/7/2003 -0600, Colin_S_Whelan@rrfc.raytheon.com wrote: >Hi everyone, > >We'll I seem to be losing a little bit of coolant. The level in the >overflow tank dropped about 2 inches in ~800 miles. I smelled coolant >while driving with the heat on twice for about 10 secs, but can't find a >leak anywhere in the engine compartent - it doesn't even smell of coolant. >If the heater core goes it should drip out of the A/C drip tube (where is >this?) but I haven't seen a spot on my garage either. The windshield does >not fog up. No coolant in the oil or vice versa. I was going to have the >dealer do a pressure test or use some dye. Any thoughts? Colin, I noticed the same thing a few days ago. I smell coolant when I first turn on the heat for about ten seconds, but the engine compartment smells clean. I checked the level and it was about an inch under the cold fill mark, but I haven't yet done enough driving to make further checks to see if it's dropped. The fact that I smell it in the engine compartment concerns me. Is there a weak spot on our cars that I don't know about? - Chris
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#6. is this true? Michel Potheau passed away?? - from Tim Ng
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:45:13 -0800 From: "Tim Ng" <s14realm3@peachtreebmwcca.org> Subject: is this true? Michel Potheau passed away?? is this true? Michel Potheau passed away?? He is the BMW CCA president. If it's true, thats sad, he is a nice guy. sorry to hear that, my condolence. Tim Ng, Peachtree Chapter 95 E36 M3 BzznM3 92 E30 325ic M-tech convetible 91 E30 M3 street car 88 E30 M3 Track car 93 Chevy Blazer 2 dr. tow vehicle
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#7. Re: [E36M3] is this true? Michel Potheau passed away?? - from Sue Kraft
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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 08:32:51 -0600 From: Sue Kraft <suekraft@new.rr.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] is this true? Michel Potheau passed away?? When I first joined the old Welty list, Michel was one of the first to welcome me into the fold - and when the going got tough, was one of the few to stand by me. Very, very sad to hear the news this morning..... Sue Tim Ng wrote: > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:45:13 -0800 > From: "Tim Ng" <s14realm3@peachtreebmwcca.org> > Subject: is this true? Michel Potheau passed away?? > > is this true? Michel Potheau passed away?? > He is the BMW CCA president. If it's true, thats sad, he is a nice guy. > sorry to hear that, my condolence. > > Tim Ng, Peachtree Chapter > 95 E36 M3 BzznM3 > 92 E30 325ic M-tech convetible > 91 E30 M3 street car > 88 E30 M3 Track car > 93 Chevy Blazer 2 dr. tow vehicle
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA - from DocWyte
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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:13:01 -0800 (PST) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA I don't think I'd hang my hat on that. Seems like they're excluding a drivers education to me. How long is it going to take to fight the insurance co to get coverage? Meanwhile the car sits in a heap in your garage, or you have to front the cash to fix it, then hope you win in court so the ins co pays for the costs of fixing the car and your lawyer and court fees. Doesn't sound like fun to me. -josh --- Michael <95m3ltw@charter.net> wrote: > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:22:27 -0500 > From: "Michael" <95m3ltw@charter.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > I forwarded it to a lawyer buddy of mine here in GA > and he stated that it > would not hold a drop of water since a DE does not > qualify for any of the 3. > He is a PCA guy and stated that wording has been > around since 97 in some > policys. And he has yet to hear of anyone in this > area ever losing > coverage at a DE. Some have had to take it to > court, but no-one was ever > denied coverage for a DE. I think until they add > DE in the wording, it > doesnt bother me yet. > > Mike > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Byrum" <mycroft@academus.net> > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:16 AM > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:16:16 -0800 (PST) > > From: Tom Byrum <mycroft@academus.net> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > I think you would lose. Parsed, this reads as: > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > the policy does not provide coverage for bodily > injury or property damage > > arising out of: > > > > the participation in any prearranged, organized, > or spontaneous racing > > or speed contest; > > > > when using the insured vehicle at a track or > course designed for racing > > or high performance driving; > > > > or in practice or preparation for any contest or > use of this type. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > > > The 'or' in the last line is what seals it. If ANY > ONE of those three > things is > > true, the first sentence is effective and coverage > is denied. You balk at > the > > word contest, but the second line doesn't mention > contest at all, and that > is > > the one that rules out DE events entirely for this > policy. > > > > Tom Byrum > > > > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Michael wrote: > > > > > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:01:20 -0500 > > > From: "Michael" <95m3ltw@charter.net> > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in > PA > > > > > > I would venture to say, worded the way it is, > that they could NOT refuse > > > coverage of a DS incident. They use the term > CONTEST, which a DE is > not > > > and can be easily proven otherwise. Regardless > of how they look at a > DE, > > > it doenst fit anything in that paragraph, even > if the location is a race > > > track. Which could be defined as a controlled > learning area. > > > > > > I think I would take it to court to the last > penny I had if they > refused. > > > > > > Mike > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Lilley" <m3steve@earthlink.net> > > > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 3:56 PM > > > Subject: [E36M3] Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 15:50:03 -0500 > > > > From: Steve Lilley <m3steve@earthlink.net> > > > > Subject: Driver's Ed & Allstate in PA > > > > > > > > I just received a list of amendments to my > Allstate Auto Insurance. > > > > I remember reading about this exclusion in > another state, but it > > > > looks like it applies to PA as well now. > > > > > > > > Here's what Allstate sends to anyone renewing > in Jan 2003: > > > > Under "Exclusions -- What is not covered" in > Part 1....we have > > > > added an exclusion specifying that the > policy does not provide > > > > coverage for bodily injury or property > damage arising out of > > > > the participation in any prearranged, > organized, or spontaneous > > > > racing or speed contest; when using the > insured vehicle at a > > > > track or course designed for racing or high > performance driving; > > > > or in practice or preparation for any > contest or use of this > > > > type. > > > > > > > > Now I'm not a lawyer, but it now sounds like > you are SOL if you are > > > > a customer of Allstate-PA and you have an > "incident" at a DE. Time > > > > to reconsider American Collectors Insurance > for DE coverage: > > > > > > > > > http://www.americancollectorsins.com/driversed.htm > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve > > > > m3steve@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== Josh Wyte Momentum Motorsports 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
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#9. Administrative notice - please read! - from Sue Kraft
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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 13:48:12 -0600 From: Sue Kraft <suekraft@new.rr.com> Subject: Administrative notice - please read! First, I'd like to wish everyone a happy and prosperous New Year! As some of you already know, the E36M3 list advertising policy has changed. The only commercial advertising allowed from now on will be from list sponsors. List sponsors will be allowed to post one special or promotion per month, and also make new product announcements as the come out. Also, effective immediately, commercial tag lines will be limited to name of business only. Only list sponsors will be allowed to show links and phone numbers in their tag lines. The policy allowing free, private ads will not change. If you have any questions, or are interested in becoming a list sponsor, please call or drop me an email. Thanks! And stay tuned! I will be announcing our first official E36M3 list sponsor shortly.... Suzy 920-494-7194 suekraft@new.rr.com
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#10. Throttle-Body Dividends? - from Jon Phillips
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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:49:13 -0800 From: jon@maximumpc.com (Jon Phillips) Subject: Throttle-Body Dividends? Hi all... This is a shot in the dark, but I'm looking for input from people who've added a larger-bore throttle body to an existing cold-air intake/chip upgrade situation. In short, what kind of performane gains, if any, did you feel on the butt dyno when you added the throttle body to an existing CAI/chip combo? I have a 97 coupe, with the Dinan/chip/exhaust package, and I'm thinking of getting a throttle-body upgrade, but would like some input first. BTW: I don't care if your experience is with Dinan parts or other parts. I'm just interested in hearing opinions from people who've done the same type of upgrades in the order described above. Thanks in advance!