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#1. Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:28:44 -0500 From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant > I just went outside to do some work on my 1995 M3 and while working on that > car discovered that my coolant is frozen rock solid. I did > not start the > engine. I'm sorry I didn't read Geof's e-mail last night. I don't know if my following advice would have been any help but... maybe I can help the next guy. I'm probably a little bit older than most of you guys on this list. I can remember before we had 1100+ cranking amp batteries and 0W synthetic oils. I used to live in the upper Midwest. At least once a year we would get -10 F or colder. Some years it would get as low -30 to -35 F. My mother was a nurse. She would have to drive to work no matter what. My Dad or I would get up about every 2 hours all night and go outside to start the car up to warm it up. If it sat all night in the cold, chances are it would not turn over. Truckers would leave their diesel engines run all night long. My point? This is kind of a worst case scenario. If you encounter a cold night and for whatever reason you don't have enough antifreeze in your engine, you can do several things to save the engine or at least minimize the damage. First, if you think your coolant is freezing up and it is getting colder, you need to get your car into a warm garage - at least an attached garage. Leave the inside door to the house open and put a fan in the doorway to blow warm air into the garage. Or go to a 24 hr Wal-Mart and buy an electric space heater to leave in the garage. Or, start the car up every hour or so and let the engine reach full temp. Put a blanket over the front grill and hood. You want the engine and radiator to get as warm as possible. Don't drive around. This will actually cool down the radiator. If the water is already frozen or freezing, not all is lost yet. You still need to get the car into a warm location or change out the coolant. Especially if the temperature is dropping. The potential engine damage is only going to get wor$e. If the car is outside and you can get it inside, can you push it inside? It may take 4-5 men but call your friends and family. If you are careful, you can even use another car to push it inside. [Note: proceed at your own risk] Use what you can to protect the cars - sofa pillows, blankets, old tires, etc... Also, just because the radiator is frozen does not mean you can't start the engine. This next advice is really risky but you don't have much to loose if the engine block is already frozen up. If the water in the engine is not solid, the motor will start (assuming the battery has enough oomph) and run fine. It will likely overheat since the water can't circulate through the frozen radiator but you should be able to drive 2-3 miles. Now, if the water in the block is frozen around the water pump, you've got a decision to make. If you start the engine, you will destroy the water pump and/or destroy the fan belt. But if that is the only way to save the engine block from sure destruction, a water pump is a whole lot cheaper. If you have tools, you have lots of other options. Remove the fan belt and start the car up. No damage this way except it will over heat in a few minutes. Get it inside and warm ASAP. If you don't have a warm place for the car, you could remove the coolant. Remove the radiator drain plug and the engine block plug [very important]. Take off the upper radiator hose [probably easiest to remove from the radiator]. Boil water on a stove and see if you can get any of the boiling water into the radiator and engine. If you get most of the water out, put the plugs back in and add all the antifreeze you can find. Start the car up and let it warm up and the coolant circulate. You should now have plenty of antifreeze protection. If no antifreeze, you could leave the drain plugs out. The radiator and engine should not freeze up without water. And of course, if a tow truck is available within an hour so, you could hire a tow truck to tow you to a warm garage. Hope I didn't scare anybody. ;-) As you can tell, I am not one to sit around hopelessly and watch my engine self destruct. I'm going down fighting. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 BMW CCA #131505
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant - from Geof McLaughlin
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:31:39 -0500 From: Geof McLaughlin <gfmiiilist@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant At 12:00 PM 1/22/2003 -0600, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: >There are 6? water plugs obscured from view by the intake manifold. In >theory, they are supposed to pop to relieve the pressure of the freezing >water. I don't know how well it works in practice or how easy it is to >tell by looking at them if they had popped or not. If you start the car >and see coolant dripping down the driver side of the block, they probably >had popped. Actually the freeze plugs are located on the passenger side of the engine under the *exhaust* manifold, at least on my 1995 M3 3.0 liter engine. I took a look at the rearmost one that is easiest to see and it has neither popped out nor deformed. I'm still thawing out the car right now and am keeping my fingers crossed. I'll pressure test the coolant system to check for leaks before starting the engine, but I may even have to wait until tomorrow for it to thaw completely. >Geof, >Out of curiosity, what coolant/water mixture were you running and how cold >did it get your neck of the woods? I was running water/WaterWetter with some residual coolant that was left in the system...obviously not enough though. I live in Massachusetts and it has been abnormally frigid here with temps in the single digits for over a week. Geof
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant - from matthew c. mead
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:34:47 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" <mmead-bmw@goof.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 12:47:16PM -0600, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > Geof, > Out of curiosity, what coolant/water mixture were you running and how cold > did it get your neck of the woods? I've been wanting to ask this too. I don't know the mix on my M3, but since the Saab is up on stands waiting for PB Blaster to penetrate some brake parts, I'm driving the M3 and it sits out in the cold. Yesterday it was 0F on the way to work. Today it was 2F. It turns over hard and doesn't act happy about being driven. :( I'm glad my coolant's flowing, though, hopefully it continues. -matt -- matthew c. mead 97 Dakar M3/4 97 White GS-R/4 92 Black Miata 87 White Saab 900S http://www.goof.com/~mmead/
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#4. Re: To sell or not to sell - from Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:34:35 -0600 From: Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com Subject: Re: To sell or not to sell Shel wrote: >I advertised my 1998 M3 a couple weeks ago at $25.5k and received an offer >today for $22k. My main driver was a need for a 4 door and I am closing in >on that magical depreciation point of 70k miles. Have you considered a 97/98 M3/4? This 4 door is a great "toy"/daily driver. Do you live in the northern states where the cold weather does not bode well for the resale value of a car like the M3 right now? Did you counter offer the $22k? This past summer I offered someone $24k to purchase their 97 M3/2 (listed at $26k). The offer/counter-offer went back and forth and we parted ways after the seller refused to go below $25.5k I subsequently picked up a 98 M3/4, 40k miles, excellent cond. for $25.5k and have been extremely happy. Grant 98 M3/4...powered by Dinan Chicago
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant - from DocWyte
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:43:12 -0800 (PST) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant I live in MA too, I certainly wouldn't run a coolant/water mix any more than 50/50 mix. Ie, not more water than 50%... -josh --- Geof McLaughlin <gfmiiilist@attbi.com> wrote: > Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:31:39 -0500 > From: Geof McLaughlin <gfmiiilist@attbi.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant > > At 12:00 PM 1/22/2003 -0600, alex.fadeev@verizon.com > wrote: > >There are 6? water plugs obscured from view by the > intake manifold. In > >theory, they are supposed to pop to relieve the > pressure of the freezing > >water. I don't know how well it works in practice > or how easy it is to > >tell by looking at them if they had popped or not. > If you start the car > >and see coolant dripping down the driver side of > the block, they probably > >had popped. > > Actually the freeze plugs are located on the > passenger side of the engine > under the *exhaust* manifold, at least on my 1995 M3 > 3.0 liter engine. I > took a look at the rearmost one that is easiest to > see and it has neither > popped out nor deformed. I'm still thawing out the > car right now and am > keeping my fingers crossed. I'll pressure test the > coolant system to check > for leaks before starting the engine, but I may even > have to wait until > tomorrow for it to thaw completely. > > >Geof, > >Out of curiosity, what coolant/water mixture were > you running and how cold > >did it get your neck of the woods? > > I was running water/WaterWetter with some residual > coolant that was left in > the system...obviously not enough though. I live in > Massachusetts and it > has been abnormally frigid here with temps in the > single digits for over a > week. > > Geof > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== Josh Wyte Momentum Motorsports 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
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#6. [E36M3] Re: To sell or not to sell - from Ivan Chou
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:07:15 -0600 From: Ivan Chou <ichou@sdf.lonestar.org> Subject: [E36M3] Re: To sell or not to sell Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:05:27 -0500 (EST) From: Ivan Chou <ichou@sdf.lonestar.org> Subject: Re: To sell or not to sell Shelhart2@aol.com wrote: > Or is it time to part with it for $22k? Thoughts? Shel, If not now for $22k, then it will be later for $19k, $16k, etc. Factor that in with the upcoming repairs/costs that you forecast, and it does not look like a good ROI down the line. I will have to agree that even with all the nice performance cars coming out recently, there is still nothing quite like the E36 M3 sedan. Ivan ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#7. Jacking Problems & how stiff is it? - from Luis Rueda
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:57:14 -0500 From: "Luis Rueda" <Luis_Rueda@Interliant.com> Subject: Jacking Problems & how stiff is it? So tell us Paul, how stiff is it? "Yeah, my M3 is sooo stiff now that I got the X brace, that I've found that when I jack up one side using the rear side jack point with the jack plate inserted, not only do I get the rear wheel off the ground, but all 4 wheels comes off the ground enough such that with that one jack location, I can easily change all four wheels on that side." JK! Luis '99 MCoupe "don't need no stinkin' X-brace!" '95 M3 "X-braced & will lift front wheel when jacked from the back" (I can see the jokes coming) '86 325e "lucky if I get one tire off the ground!" '86 325is "same here" -------------------- 2 -------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:00:22 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Jacking Problems Instead of Steve's jack plate, Im using a similar looking one but much cheaper from Pelicanparts. Im sure its not as good a tool, but its been working fine for me. Anyway, I dont know if this is true to all M3s, or just to ones with X braces, but Ive found that when I jack up one side using the rear side jack point with the jack plate inserted, not only do I get the rear wheel off the ground, but the front comes off the ground enough such that with that one jack location, I can easily change both wheels on that side. I presume This is ok, as its still only lifting a single side. Paul Elliott ---------------------------------------------------------
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant - from Andrew E. Kalman
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:27:14 -0600 From: "Andrew E. Kalman" <aek@pumpkininc.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:13:33 -0800 From: "Andrew E. Kalman" <aek@pumpkininc.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant Re: >I just went outside to do some work on my 1995 M3 and while working >on that car discovered that my coolant is frozen rock solid. I did >not start the engine. > >Am I screwed in terms of any possible engine damage? You are if it expanded in the block ... let it thaw out completely, then fire it up -- you'll know soon enough if there's damage. BTDT with an Alfa. -- ______________________________________ Andrew E. Kalman, Ph.D. aek@pumpkininc.com ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:57:15 -0600 From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:48:34 -0500 From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Frozen Coolant Geof, If it is really "frozen rock solid" like you imply, then unfortunately that is not good. I would suspect your radiator is destroyed. As for the engine block, you might get lucky here. First, the engine will be a few degrees (hopefully) warmer than the radiator. It is more protected from the wind and it takes longer to cool down than the radiator. Second, there are "freeze" plugs in the engine block. They are just tin can shaped plugs pressed into the block. They should pop out if the engine freezes. I don't know what it takes to put the freeze plugs back in but I doubt it is easy. At least it will be cheaper than a new block. Good luck! Lowell Seaton '95 M3 - Dallas, Texas -------------------------------------- > I just went outside to do some work on my 1995 M3 and while working on that > car discovered that my coolant is frozen rock solid. I did > not start the > engine. > > Am I screwed in terms of any possible engine damage? > > Geof ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#10. [E36M3] Jacking Problems - from Paul Elliott
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:57:16 -0600 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: [E36M3] Jacking Problems Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:00:22 -0500 From: "Paul Elliott" <elliott.paul@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Jacking Problems >>It says that you can use it to lift a single wheel, or a single side of the car (when the jackplate is inserted in the rear hole).<< Instead of Steve's jack plate, Im using a similar looking one but much cheaper from Pelicanparts. Im sure its not as good a tool, but its been working fine for me. Anyway, I dont know if this is true to all M3s, or just to ones with X braces, but Ive found that when I jack up one side using the rear side jack point with the jack plate inserted, not only do I get the rear wheel off the ground, but the front comes off the ground enough such that with that one jack location, I can easily change both wheels on that side. I presume This is ok, as its still only lifting a single side. Paul Elliott --------------------------------------------------------- '99 White M3; 45K miles; Dinan stage II SC kit with 6" RMS crank pulley: 11 psi; AA Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection; Fikse FM-10s; X-Brace; Dinan Koni Suspension; Stygar SS and Clutch Stop; Sound by Polk, Excelon, JLAudio ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************