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#1. Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. - from DocWyte
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:14:30 -0800 (PST) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. I bought my '95 M3 a few months ago. It had 68k miles on it at the time and the previous owner had bought an aftermarket extended warranty for it. The warranty was transferable and it was one of the main reasons I chose this car over another one. I've claimed over $1400 worth of work on the warranty. Granted this is dealer parts and labor, so the costs are a bit inflated. I figure why take it anywhere else since I pay the same $100 deductible? Might as well take it to the place where they have most of the parts in stock, all the special tools and give me a bitchin loaner for free. Anyways, most of the work has been routine, valve cover gasket, water pump, fan clutch, knock sensor and oxygen sensor. In other words, things that could easily be done by a backyard mechanic. However, it's nice not to have to spend my time doing them, particularly since I live in the Northeast and don't have a garage. I would think that if you could get an extended warranty for around $1200, you'd at the very least recoup your investment. -josh --- alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:06:50 -0600 > From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. > > "Robert Exconde" <99e36m3@exconde.com> wrote: > > > > I'm coming up on my 50K mark on my 99M3, which > means that warranty is > > coming up on expiration. I'm wondering if I should > get the extended > > warranty. I believe it is around $1800 or so for > another 4 years/ 50K > > miles. > > I'm not a proponent of the extended warranty plans, > but than again I do > not fly to Vegas to get rich. > However, if you are in the habit of visiting the > dealer every time your > wiper blades need replacement, I would see a point > in considering one. > Most of the people I know who had their E36 > radiators replaced at the > dealer reported invoices between $400-650 for parts > and labor. At those > rates $1.5K extended warranty may in fact pay for > itself. > All for a $150 part that one can easily buy and > install yourself in less > time than it takes to drop the car off at the > dealer. But if you do not > DIY, the above point is moot. > > > I know people that drive their cars a lot harder > than anyone and > > only had a seat heater break and an O2 sensor go > out, everything > > else was driving related. What are some of the > problems I should > > look into, consider or am overlooking?? > > 1. the cooling system (radiator, water pump, > thermostat housing). > 2. suspension (shocks and bushings), though I do not > believe those are > covered under most extended warranties. > 3. lately VANOS noises, though it's unclear if they > are terminal or just > irritating. > > > Lastly, Are all dealerships the same $$ for the > warranty? Or should > > I shop online as well? > > I would definitely shop around. > The fewer sales monkeys (including dealer's) you > have between yourself and > your warranty company, the lower the cost will be. I > remember reading > reports from people who had paid just south of $1K > for the aftermarket > warranty. Unfortunately one of them is having a hell > of a time getting any > service approved by his company and is now suing it > (forgot the name). > The devil is also in the details. Some cover more > than others. Some have > larger and multiple stage deductibles. > > HTH, > alex f > > P.S.: I know BMW does NOT pay dealers their > advertised labor rate. I wonder if > the extended warranty companies insist on their own > labor rates as well. > Does anyone know? > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== Josh Wyte Momentum Motorsports 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Electric Fan Conversion (Long) - from David Bauer
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:25:29 -0600 From: David Bauer <dbauer@blkbox.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Electric Fan Conversion (Long) Thinking about it a little more I'll also try running off the 91C contact instead of the 99C and see how it works. That way the fan will be trying to get the coolant temperature closer to what the thermostat want's it to be. Plus I'll get some baseline data with the stock system beforehand. Dave 95 M3 >> How high can one heat up the pressurized water/coolant mixture before >> it find a weak spot in your cooling system? >> IIRC, the cooling mixture's boiling point is above 100C (normal water >> boiling point) under pressure. But how much higher is it? >> >> There may be a good reason why both E30 and E36 cars' auxiliary >> electrical fan were wired to run at max speed at 99C. > > > > I've seen typical pressurized water/coolant systems (~15psi) listing > boiling points of 127C. I would assume the E36 is in the same ballpark. > > I am planning to follow the same route as Neil and see how it goes. I'll > hook up a water temperature gauge to keep an eye on things. I would > think the 16" SPAL and the aux fan would be able to handle it. >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. - from Dave Kelley
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:38:33 -0500 From: "Dave Kelley" <d.kelley@usa.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. I bought and extended warranty for my 98 M3 from Warrantybynet for around $1500. I've put 20k miles on the car and never used it until now. My power steering hoses were leaking and I thought I would take it to my BMW dealer and see if this warranty thing worked. Well, initially the warranty company would not pay BMW labor rates. That pissed me off. I'm not going to take a BMW to Joe's Garage on the corner! But my BMW rep finally got the warranty company to agree on the rates. I've only got about 12k miles left and if something really bad doesn't happen between now and then, the cost will not have been worth it. Maybe I can get the obligatory new radiator before it expires! Dave Kelley > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:14:30 -0800 (PST) > From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. > > I bought my '95 M3 a few months ago. It had 68k miles > on it at the time and the previous owner had bought an > aftermarket extended warranty for it. The warranty > was transferable and it was one of the main reasons I > chose this car over another one. > > I've claimed over $1400 worth of work on the warranty. > Granted this is dealer parts and labor, so the costs > are a bit inflated. I figure why take it anywhere > else since I pay the same $100 deductible? Might as > well take it to the place where they have most of the > parts in stock, all the special tools and give me a > bitchin loaner for free. > > Anyways, most of the work has been routine, valve > cover gasket, water pump, fan clutch, knock sensor and > oxygen sensor. > > In other words, things that could easily be done by a > backyard mechanic. However, it's nice not to have to > spend my time doing them, particularly since I live in > the Northeast and don't have a garage. > > I would think that if you could get an extended > warranty for around $1200, you'd at the very least > recoup your investment. > > -josh > > > --- alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:06:50 -0600 > > From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. > > > > "Robert Exconde" <99e36m3@exconde.com> wrote: > > > > > > I'm coming up on my 50K mark on my 99M3, which > > means that warranty is > > > coming up on expiration. I'm wondering if I should > > get the extended > > > warranty. I believe it is around $1800 or so for > > another 4 years/ 50K > > > miles. > > > > I'm not a proponent of the extended warranty plans, > > but than again I do > > not fly to Vegas to get rich. > > However, if you are in the habit of visiting the > > dealer every time your > > wiper blades need replacement, I would see a point > > in considering one. > > Most of the people I know who had their E36 > > radiators replaced at the > > dealer reported invoices between $400-650 for parts > > and labor. At those > > rates $1.5K extended warranty may in fact pay for > > itself. > > All for a $150 part that one can easily buy and > > install yourself in less > > time than it takes to drop the car off at the > > dealer. But if you do not > > DIY, the above point is moot. > > > > > I know people that drive their cars a lot harder > > than anyone and > > > only had a seat heater break and an O2 sensor go > > out, everything > > > else was driving related. What are some of the > > problems I should > > > look into, consider or am overlooking?? > > > > 1. the cooling system (radiator, water pump, > > thermostat housing). > > 2. suspension (shocks and bushings), though I do not > > believe those are > > covered under most extended warranties. > > 3. lately VANOS noises, though it's unclear if they > > are terminal or just > > irritating. > > > > > Lastly, Are all dealerships the same $$ for the > > warranty? Or should > > > I shop online as well? > > > > I would definitely shop around. > > The fewer sales monkeys (including dealer's) you > > have between yourself and > > your warranty company, the lower the cost will be. I > > remember reading > > reports from people who had paid just south of $1K > > for the aftermarket > > warranty. Unfortunately one of them is having a hell > > of a time getting any > > service approved by his company and is now suing it > > (forgot the name). > > The devil is also in the details. Some cover more > > than others. Some have > > larger and multiple stage deductibles. > > > > HTH, > > alex f > > > > P.S.: I know BMW does NOT pay dealers their > > advertised labor rate. I wonder if > > the extended warranty companies insist on their own > > labor rates as well. > > Does anyone know? > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > > sponsors: > > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > ===== > Josh Wyte > Momentum Motorsports > 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. - from DocWyte
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:00:31 -0800 (PST) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. Hmm, as far as I know, my warranty company hasn't flinched at paying the dealer rates. I didn't choose this warranty co, so I'm kinda at their mercy. The transfer process was a total PITA, but other than that, they've been great. I take the car to the dealer, the dealer calls them with the problem and they ok it. I pay my deductible and leave with the car fixed. Couldn't be easier or more pleasant. The warranty is from National Warranty Co. -josh --- Dave Kelley <d.kelley@usa.net> wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:38:33 -0500 > From: "Dave Kelley" <d.kelley@usa.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. > > I bought and extended warranty for my 98 M3 from > Warrantybynet for around $1500. I've put 20k > miles on the car and never used it until now. My > power steering hoses were leaking and I thought I > would take it to my BMW dealer and see if this > warranty thing worked. > > Well, initially the warranty company would not pay > BMW labor rates. That pissed me off. I'm not > going to take a BMW to Joe's Garage on the corner! > But my BMW rep finally got the warranty > company to agree on the rates. > > I've only got about 12k miles left and if something > really bad doesn't happen between now and > then, the cost will not have been worth it. Maybe I > can get the obligatory new radiator before it > expires! > > Dave Kelley > > > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:14:30 -0800 (PST) > > From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. > > > > I bought my '95 M3 a few months ago. It had 68k > miles > > on it at the time and the previous owner had > bought an > > aftermarket extended warranty for it. The > warranty > > was transferable and it was one of the main > reasons I > > chose this car over another one. > > > > I've claimed over $1400 worth of work on the > warranty. > > Granted this is dealer parts and labor, so the > costs > > are a bit inflated. I figure why take it anywhere > > else since I pay the same $100 deductible? Might > as > > well take it to the place where they have most of > the > > parts in stock, all the special tools and give me > a > > bitchin loaner for free. > > > > Anyways, most of the work has been routine, valve > > cover gasket, water pump, fan clutch, knock sensor > and > > oxygen sensor. > > > > In other words, things that could easily be done > by a > > backyard mechanic. However, it's nice not to have > to > > spend my time doing them, particularly since I > live in > > the Northeast and don't have a garage. > > > > I would think that if you could get an extended > > warranty for around $1200, you'd at the very least > > recoup your investment. > > > > -josh > > > > > > --- alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:06:50 -0600 > > > From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com > > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Extended Warranty. > > > > > > "Robert Exconde" <99e36m3@exconde.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm coming up on my 50K mark on my 99M3, which > > > means that warranty is > > > > coming up on expiration. I'm wondering if I > should > > > get the extended > > > > warranty. I believe it is around $1800 or so > for > > > another 4 years/ 50K > > > > miles. > > > > > > I'm not a proponent of the extended warranty > plans, > > > but than again I do > > > not fly to Vegas to get rich. > > > However, if you are in the habit of visiting the > > > dealer every time your > > > wiper blades need replacement, I would see a > point > > > in considering one. > > > Most of the people I know who had their E36 > > > radiators replaced at the > > > dealer reported invoices between $400-650 for > parts > > > and labor. At those > > > rates $1.5K extended warranty may in fact pay > for > > > itself. > > > All for a $150 part that one can easily buy and > > > install yourself in less > > > time than it takes to drop the car off at the > > > dealer. But if you do not > > > DIY, the above point is moot. > > > > > > > I know people that drive their cars a lot > harder > > > than anyone and > > > > only had a seat heater break and an O2 sensor > go > > > out, everything > > > > else was driving related. What are some of the > > > problems I should > > > > look into, consider or am overlooking?? > > > > > > 1. the cooling system (radiator, water pump, > > > thermostat housing). > > > 2. suspension (shocks and bushings), though I do > not > > > believe those are > > > covered under most extended warranties. > > > 3. lately VANOS noises, though it's unclear if > they > > > are terminal or just > > > irritating. > > > > > > > Lastly, Are all dealerships the same $$ for > the > > > warranty? Or should > > > > I shop online as well? > > > > > > I would definitely shop around. > > > The fewer sales monkeys (including dealer's) you > > > have between yourself and > > > your warranty company, the lower the cost will > be. I > > > remember reading > > > reports from people who had paid just south of > $1K > > > for the aftermarket > > > warranty. Unfortunately one of them is having a > hell > > > of a time getting any > > > service approved by his company and is now suing > it > > > (forgot the name). > > > The devil is also in the details. Some cover > more > > > than others. Some have > > > larger and multiple stage deductibles. > > > > > > HTH, > > > alex f > > > > > > P.S.: I know BMW does NOT pay dealers their > > > advertised labor rate. I wonder if > > > the extended warranty companies insist on their > own > > > labor rates as well. > > > Does anyone know? > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting > our > > > sponsors: > > > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > > > Rogue Engineering > http://www.rogueengineering.com > > > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Josh Wyte > > Momentum Motorsports > > 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > > > === message truncated === ===== Josh Wyte Momentum Motorsports 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Electric Fan Conversion (Long) - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:05:55 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Electric Fan Conversion (Long) on 1/28/03 2:55 PM, alex.fadeev@verizon.com at alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: >> As part of my forthcoming PWR aluminum radiator installation, I'm >> also planning to remove the fan clutch and its engine-driven fan >> and convert to a 16" SPAL electric cooling fan. (Note that since >> this car is a daily driver I don't want to eliminate the fan completely.) > > Neil, > You do know that you have the auxiliary electric fan on the car already, > right? Umm, yes Alex, I'd noticed that! > I don't know how long it will last if you make it one and only fan on your > car, but that's only money. (However see below for indications that the existing aux fan alone will not be adequate.) >> However in low ambient conditions the engine will tend >> to run cooler than the design point, and heater effectiveness will >> also be reduced. In higher ambient/hard use conditions either an 80C >> or a 88C thermostat will usually be open, and the coolant temperature >> would therefore stabilize at the same higher temperature in either case. > > Assuming that at the operating temperature the thermostat is already open > (don't know that for a fact), I would agree. That's going to vary with ambient and how hard one is running. Under high ambient/hard running conditions I think the thermostat may be open most of the time. In the present winter weather my oil temp hardly manages to exceed 120F, so I doubt the thermostat opens much either. >> 2) There should be a temperature differential between the water >> thermostat and fan switch settings. In order not to run the electric >> fan needlessly, you want the water thermostat to open first. Then, >> if and only if that fails to cool adequately, the electric fan >> should kick in and run only as long as necessary. >> It seems to me that the 2-stage 80C thermostat/80C fan switch strategy >> therefore fails on both counts. > > You are assuming that the engine will NOT overheat without the main fan and > with the electrical fan off. Since BMW seen fit to put in two (2) fans in > there, the above assumption seams shaky. No, we actually know that for sure, because some people have removed the main fan altogether. What happens then is that if the car keeps moving it's fine, but when stuck in traffic on a hot day with the A/C on it will start to overheat. > It may well be that you HAVE to run your electric fan ALL the time if you > remove the main viscous clutch fan. From the experience of the fanless guys we know that turns out not to be the case, but on the other hand the stock aux fan alone isn't enough either. So it seems clear that for everyday street use something beyond the aux fan is needed, but not that much. The SPAL electric fan I've bought is rated at 2400 cfm, which is quite a lot. The nice part is that it moves that much air even at a standstill, unlike the stock mechanical fan, which of course turns slowly at idle when you need it most, and fast at speed when you don't. >> My plan is to keep the stock 88C water thermostat, and control the >> electric fan (via a relay) from the existing 99C contact in the dual >> temperature switch. > > How high can one heat up the pressurized water/coolant mixture before it > find a weak spot in your cooling system? Don't know, but the stock system runs pressurized when very hot. > IIRC, the cooling mixture's boiling point is above 100C (normal water > boiling point) under pressure. But how much higher is it? Don't know that either, but the electric fan should be at least as capable as the stock mechanical fan. > There may be a good reason why both E30 and E36 cars' auxiliary electrical > fan were wired to run at max speed at 99C. I think there is. The stock aux fan's primary purpose is to assist A/C effectiveness at low/no speed. Secondary purpose is to assist the main fan at idle. Note that I'm leaving the stock aux fan control circuit alone. It will still operate in the approved Bavarian manner. >> This allows for 3-stage operation and an 11C differential: - With engine >> "cold" (below 88C) the thermostat is closed and the electric fan off. - If >> the engine is "warm" (above 88C but below 99C) the thermostat is open and the >> electric fan off. - When the engine is "hot" (above 99C) the thermostat is >> open and the electric fan on. > > Your 3-stage scenario may well revert to one stage (3rd) all the time if > some of the assumptions I had pointed out are incorrect. Yes that would be the risk, but fortunately the data cited above (wasn't in my original post) indicates that won't in fact happen. Well, it won't if my analysis is correct ;) > Here you go. Alex, thanks for your thoughtful comments. Neil 96 M3
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#6. MRoadster/Z3 Accessories/Parts for Sale - from Osborne.Christopher@epamail.epa.gov
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:35:09 -0500 From: Osborne.Christopher@epamail.epa.gov Subject: MRoadster/Z3 Accessories/Parts for Sale Mroadster parts Bootsaver $20, trunk mat $37.5, wheel locks $20.5, wind deflector $100, mats $55, Mlicense frame $23.5, clear side lamps $30, tonneau $48, armrest $45, hat $12, light switch $26, clutch stop button $2, shift lever $45, illuminated shift knob $90, belt pads $20. Chris: 703 597 1960; osborne.christopher@epa.gov (VA) Chris Osborne BMWCCA# 92573
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#7. Electric Fan Conversion (Long) - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:39:35 -0500 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Electric Fan Conversion (Long) Alex says > > You do know that you have the auxiliary electric fan on the car already, > right? > I don't know how long it will last if you make it one and only fan on your > car, but that's only money. I think Neil plans to leave the current auxiliary electric fan in place and add a second electric fan in the same location as the main viscous clutch fan. > How high can one heat up the pressurized water/coolant mixture before it > find a weak spot in your cooling system? > IIRC, the cooling mixture's boiling point is above 100C (normal water > boiling point) under pressure. But how much higher is it? With a 50/50 mixture of BMW coolant and distilled water, the answer is 225F (107C) at atmospheric pressure and 275F (135C) at 1.4 BAR (20 lb) IIRC. It may be a little higher than that as this may be the Mercedes numbers for their coolant and BMW's numbers were a little higher IIRC. Regards, Rich
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#8. Electric cooling fan - from James Clay
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:48:00 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: Electric cooling fan I have always pulled the engine fan, left the aux fan on the car and hooked up as stock. I don't sit in traffic a lot and haven't had problems. On the track, when moving at 40 or higher and not stopping much, you don't need a fan (unless you are drafting for more than a lap at a shot). I wouldn't do this in LA... James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com Engineered BMW Performance 540.639.9648
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#9. Wiper blade refills? - from Zachary Eyler-Walker
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:54:05 -0500 (EST) From: Zachary Eyler-Walker <zwalker@cs.utk.edu> Subject: Wiper blade refills? > However, if you are in the habit of visiting the dealer every time your > wiper blades need replacement, I would see a point in considering one. Got me to thinking. I remember a discussion in here a while ago about where to find wiper blade refills, and a couple suggestions were tossed out. I checked out the local places that someone suggested might have them, and it came up a bust. Just wondering if anyone actually followed up any of the online sources and found some for a reasonable price (or happens to know some other sources). I'm just not too excited about spending $20-30 when all I need is a tiny little strip of Bosch rubber. Thanks, Zach
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#10. Thompson BMW Sertvice NIGHTMARE (very long) - from Chris Conner
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Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:05:43 -0500 From: "Chris Conner" <chris@digital7.com> Subject: Thompson BMW Sertvice NIGHTMARE (very long) My 99 Certified Pre-Owned m3 has developed a transmission problem. It has 55k miles on it, and was purchased with a Certified Pre-Owned warranty. Yesterday, I took the car to Thompson BMW in Doylestown, PA. I recently moved to PA, and it is my first experience with this dealer. I'm curious to get some other opinions on my experience, before I type everything up. Here are a few paraphrased conversations I've had with "Wayne", the service advisor dealing with my car. None of the points made below have been exaggerated in any way. First call, after I dropped off the car: them: just to let you know, we're going to have to spend some money to work on this car.=20 me: no, it is certified pre-owned.=20 them: what do you know about the car?=20 me: what do you want to know?=20 them: the tranmission has been out of the car. me: not to the best of my knowledge.=20 them: did you buy the car new? me: no, it is certified pre-owned. them: well it's a little "tricked out" (ed note. the car has H&R Race/Bilsteins/JTD RSMs/Borbet Wheels/Ellipsoids/Aftermarket Brakes) me: okay, the trans has not been modified. them: did you buy it from a bmw dealer?=20 me: it is CERTIFIED PRE OWNED. them: we'll call you tomorrow I was astounded by this conversation. Either he does not understand what CPO means, or he was strongly implying that the car is not actually CPO. second call, the next morning: they say they will not fix or replace the tranny, he says this, and I quote: "there was no fluid in the transmission"=20 me: "no fluid, in the transmission?"=20 them: "yes, and it is the wrong kind too"=20 me: how did you check the level of fluid in a bmw manual trans? Them: we used a special tool Me: what tool did you use? Them: the technician put his finger in the fill plug and could not feel oil The latest BMW special tool is now a technician's finger! A month ago, after this noise in my trans developed, I drained the stock BMW fluid (there was a correct amount in the trans) and filled it with the required amount (fill until it overflows from the fill plug on level ground) of spec transmission fluid. Before I took the car to the dealer, I inspected both the drain and fill plugs to verify no fluid was leaking. Put bluntly, the transmission is filled to spec with the correct fluid. After I gave up arguing with him about trans fluid, he told me: them: you need a new battery me: I have never had a problem with my battery. Them: we can=92t get it started in the shop, the charge is weak Me: I have never had a problem Them: do you want us to replace it? Me: no, please do not touch it Them: then I suggest you bring jumper cables with you when you pick up your car Again, not once have I had a charge problem with my battery, and the water level was recently checked. His condescending tone when he suggested I bring my own jumper cables to pick up my car really irked me, even over and above his suggestions that my trans is lacking fluid.=20 I just got the car back from Thompson BMW, transmission in its same state. Unfortunately, it is not quite as simple as that. The car went in for 2 other small issues as well =96 a sticking door handle, and a passenger side window that took a few clicks of the window switch to go all the way up. These two problems are listed as fixed on my invoice, and I paid a $50 deductible since my car is now under its CPO warranty. Now, when I try to put the passenger window down, it stops =BC=94 from = the bottom of the track, as though something is stopping it from going all the way down. My power locks do not work at all. Hitting the central lock button inside the car does nothing, and my key will only operate the door it is used on. These problems did not exist before Thompson BMW touched my car. Also, as noted above, dealer suggested I bring jumper cables in order to start my vehicle. They quoted $223 (!) to replace my battery. Car started without hesitation numerous times since pickup. I am absolutely FURIOUS so far with the service received. I left a voicemail with the service manager, who is out sick today. As always, all of your valuable insight/conversation is much appreciated. =20