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#1. Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:22:51 -0800 From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools At 10:40 AM 2/13/03, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: >Personally, I find it a little snobbish. I would probably choose not to >patronize such an organization and sign up for a DE with another club. Let me point out that that action was taken by the organizer of the event; that person no longer organizes GGC schools. Having said that, I agree with that action. The students signed up with their BMWs, but showed up in different cars than they signed up with. I also happen to agree with the BMWs-first policy. What's the advantage to joining a marque-specific club if anyone can attend events? Plus, like I mentioned in an earlier mail, until recently GGC had NO problem filling schools with BMW drivers. There were always long wait-lists, and I know I would be pretty pissed off if someone got into a school ahead of me that wasn't driving a BMW. If you want non-marque-specific driving events, there are plenty of those events. But if everybody in the world is allowed to attend BMW Club events, then what's the point in having a Club? >There is no known to me good reason to require owning and driving a bimmer >to improve one's driving skills. The fact that it's a *BMW* club, not a general car club, sounds like a pretty good one to me. But then, maybe you think the BMW CCA should become the "Any car at all" CCA? My 2 cents, Jim Bassett
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#2. [WOB] Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:40:17 -0600 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: [WOB] Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools "Rex Tener" <rex_tener@yahoo.com> wrote: > > At 12:49 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > >Apparently not. GGC seams to discriminate against non-BMW vehicles. > >There is no known to me good reason to require owning and driving a > >bimmer to improve one's driving skills. > >Personally, I find it a little snobbish. I would probably choose not to > >patronize such an organization and sign up for a DE with another club. > > I am not involved in GGC other than being a member and occasional > autocross participant. My guess is, in the completely car crazy San > Francisco Bay Area, marque clubs have to limit participation to their > marque if they don't want to be over run by non-marques at their event. Rex, There is a fundamental difference between limiting event participation to 'club members' vs. 'car owners'. BMW CCA makes a point of NOT requiring BMW car ownership to join the Club. Thus we have a Club of car nuts of all makes and sizes, not just "Beeeeeamer" driving snobs. > In the SF Bay Area autox world, the SCCA requires membership, and still > is averaging over 300 drivers an event since the beginning of the year. > They used to allow membership purchase at the event, but after dozens, > if not hundreds of bad checks written for membership, they had to > discontinue it. We could argue about the merits of requiring BMW Club membership. Between the IRS requirements and the desire to limit the benefits offered by the Club to the Clubs' members, it's a fact of life. To require Club members to drive certain cars or certain models is borderline arrogant. We might next wish to modify DE school admission requirements to myself, people and cars _I_ like and large breasted blonds. I'm sure it will be a lot more fun for ME, so to hell with the rest of the BMW CCA Club members. somewhat tongue in cheek, alex f
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools - from Carey Probst
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:53:21 -0500 From: "Carey Probst" <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools I have to disagree with most of these points. First, CCA membership is for me, not my M3. As a member it should not matter what I drive to the school. I agree with a BMW CCA chapter member first policy regardless of the car being driven at the event. It even can generate extra membership $ for the club as CCA members can join the chapter in addition to their own to get preference. The advantage of a marque specific club is associating with fellow owners and learning from them. Does the marque requirement also apply to instructors? Under your logic it should since they can't teach a BMW unless the drive one. I've had some great ride alongs at GVC in non BMWs driven by my instructor including an SCCA prepped Celica. Now if I could just figure out how to get a ride in the NASCAR truck that runs with GVC that would be a blast. (And yes, it turns right very well. Lapped my instructor and me twice in a 30 minute session in a BMW). BTW, BMW CCA is an any car, all cars club. BMW ownership is not required to join, just an interest in BMWs. Both owners, fans, and wannabes can join. Carey Probst, '99 M3/2, BMW CCA Patroon and Genesee Valley Chapters JC CAIed and Sharked, Stressed, Schrothed, Gauged, Hitched, X-Braced A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. -----Original Message----- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:22:51 -0800 From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools I also happen to agree with the BMWs-first policy. What's the advantage to joining a marque-specific club if anyone can attend events? Plus, like I mentioned in an earlier mail, until recently GGC had NO problem filling schools with BMW drivers. There were always long wait-lists, and I know I would be pretty pissed off if someone got into a school ahead of me that wasn't driving a BMW. If you want non-marque-specific driving events, there are plenty of those events. But if everybody in the world is allowed to attend BMW Club events, then what's the point in having a Club? >There is no known to me good reason to require owning and driving a bimmer >to improve one's driving skills. The fact that it's a *BMW* club, not a general car club, sounds like a pretty good one to me. But then, maybe you think the BMW CCA should become the "Any car at all" CCA? My 2 cents, Jim Bassett
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#4. Re: My Car is Talking To Me (off topic) - from andy radin
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:59:58 -0800 From: "andy radin" <fourfa@fourfa.com> Subject: Re: My Car is Talking To Me (off topic) "So I'm curious as to exactly what type of creature OBDII is? Is this a computer system that is unique to BMW's or is it a universal system amoung all auto-makers? Do the codes apply to more than one model, more than one make of car or does each have its own codes. Was this system legislated into existence and made madatory for all vehicles or is it a discretionary thing. How does it differ from OBDI ?" It's an EPA-mandated program across all manufacturers as of Jan 1 1996 (from the horse's mouth - http://www.epa.gov/otaq/obd-faq.htm). The connector and codes are standardized, although some cars (like ours) have additional proprietary connectors that can yield more info than the standard plug (under the driver's dash). OBD-1 was required as of 1990, and basically was the first legal mandate for closed-loop MAP or MAF-based sequential fuel injection systems with oxygen sensors (although it was tough to meet the EPA passenger-car smog limits without one anyway). This did away with the last of the nasty throttle injection systems and the very last carbureted trucks. It included some error checking of sensor outputs and would light a check engine light in case of gross failure. OBD1 was not standardized, and California requirements were stricter still, so we saw a lot of cars fitted for California or 49-state emissions, and a lot of variety between manufacturers in connectors, CE light thresholds, depth of redundancy, etc. ODB-2 is loaded with semi-redundant sensors cross-checking each other (requires both MAP and MAF sensors, pre and post catalyst sensors, etc), the idea being to be able to pinpoint a sensor or engine failure, store it, and read it out at standardized test equipment. This was strict enough for CA, so it's now a nationwide standard (CA is satisfied with merely banning any unapproved modifications) until the new CA CO2 laws go in. There is some variety in OBD-2 implementation, yet. BMW's system seems to be stricter than some other makes regarding misfire, catalyst operating range etc, probably in excess of the legal minimum. This has led to the familiar grousing in the aftermarket. andy r.
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#5. Re: My Car is Talking To Me - from Gcfuller@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:17:16 -0500 From: Gcfuller@aol.com Subject: Re: My Car is Talking To Me Mark- OBDII is standard to all makes and models as of 1996. It standardizes all cars so that you can take it anywhere to get emission and engine problems diagnosed and fixed. It is much more advanced than OBD1, and keeps the engine running in a much tighter specification range. The disadvantage is less tuning/modification ease and abilty, but you gain self diagnostics, a very clean and tightly controlled engine, and the ability to take it places other than the dealer for diagnosics and service. Not too bad a trade off as far as I'm concerned. I usually keep my cars a long time and I think OBD II will help them last longer and make them easier to maintain. I modify my cars, but not to the extreme of turbo, supercharging, or nitrous, so I'm fine. OBD II makes it much more difficult, but not impossible, to do these "extreme" modifications, since the engine is only allowed to run in a very narrow bandwith. I hope I'm not starting a big discussion... I just think OBD II could be a lot worse, and really isn't that "confining" considering the advantages. Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:28:09 -0800 From: "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me So I'm curious as to exactly what type of creature OBDII is? Is this a computer system that is unique to BMW's or is it a universal system amoung all auto-makers? Do the codes apply to more than one model, more than one make of car or does each have its own codes. Was this system legislated into existence and made madatory for all vehicles or is it a discretionary thing. How does it differ from OBDI ? mark.
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#6. Re: [WOB] Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools - from Rex Tener
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:44:18 -0800 From: Rex Tener <rex_tener@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [WOB] Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools At 01:40 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: >There is a fundamental difference between limiting event participation to >'club members' vs. 'car owners'. >BMW CCA makes a point of NOT requiring BMW car ownership to join the Club. >Thus we have a Club of car nuts of all makes and sizes, not just >"Beeeeeamer" driving snobs. Hi Alex, I am sure I have a full understanding of the difference. >To require Club members to drive certain cars or certain models is >borderline arrogant. Well, that is your opinion. IMHO, I believe it is good stewardship of the club and its resources. As someone who spent a number of years on the SCCA SFR autocross committee, I have seen the crap people and other clubs will pull to get into events and have someone else do all the work. Here is a scenario I have seen a *number* of times on the autox and autox school level, and it could easily happen at the DE level. Let's say the Viper Club of the Bay Area has 20 people driving Vipers that want to do a DE at Laguna Seca. However, it is a bit of work to rent the track, buy insurance, get instructors, and organize the whole event. Then the Viper guys have a brilliant idea, why not just piggy back on to the upcoming BMW CCA GGC DE event at Laguna Seca. Since BMW CCA membership is pretty trivial compared to all the expenses associated with a DE, they all buy BMW CCA memberships and sign up for the GGC event at Laguna Seca. Now, you essentially have the BMW CCA GGC running a DE for the Viper Club. Now for whose benefit are we running the GGC chapter for? -- Rex Tener rex_tener@yahoo.com 2002 BMW M3, SCCA SFR Solo II A-Stock #32 1996 BMW M3, SCCA SFR Solo II Street-Mod #173
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#7. Re: [E36M3] #2934 My Car is Talking to Me - from perryinricva@attbi.com
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:37:44 +0000 From: perryinricva@attbi.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] #2934 My Car is Talking to Me OBD-II was federally mandated, and went into the first BMW's in MY96, I believe. There are 3 different physical connectors I know of, a european one, like the BMW retangular, and then a Ford and a GM/Chrysler one, I believe. Thier purpose was to allow inexpensive troubleshooting information be made available to non-dealer garages/home mechanics, without spending thousands for every different manufacturers software and diagnostic tools. The information is usually specific to a model, year and make, so not all codes mean even remotely the same thing. There are a number of inexpensive (less than $200) software packages that run on 486 laptops that only require the right connector to a serial port and you can get all kinds of diagnostic and real time data. As soon as I ever get a problem that I can not diagnose without my Peake FX5, I'll buy the software, but until then.... > ************************************************************** > E36M3 List - Forum for Discussion of E36M3 Series Automobiles > ************************************************************** > BMWMPower on the Web: http://www.bmw-m.net > ************************************************************** > > This digest contains the following messages: > > 1. Re: [E36M3] #2933 My Car is Talking to me > by: <perryinricva@attbi.com> > 2. Re: Window Rattle > by: Steve Klein <klein@robinsonad.com> > 3. Touch Up Paint > by: Steve Klein <klein@robinsonad.com> > 4. RE: Service II and steering questions > by: Wesley A. Nicolas <wes@nicolas.org> > 5. Re: E46 M3 brake swap? > by: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> > 6. Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > by: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> > 7. RE: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me > by: Dames, Mark <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> > 8. RE: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > by: Carey Probst <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> > 9. Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > by: <alex.fadeev@verizon.com> > 10. Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > by: <m3ltw@msn.com> > 11. Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > by: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> > 12. RE: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > by: Dames, Mark <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> > 13. Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > by: Rex Tener <rex_tener@yahoo.com> > 14. Re: My Car is Talking To Me > by: <Gcfuller@aol.com> > > -------------------- 1 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:43:25 +0000 > From: perryinricva@attbi.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] #2933 My Car is Talking to me > > The OBDII code readers and software packages both name specific O2 sensors that > are faulty. > > -------------------- 10 -------------------- > > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:40:40 -0600 > > From: Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com > > Subject: Re: My Car is Talking To Me > > > > > > >One other option. If you have an AutoZone close to you, > > >they will read the code for >FREE and give you the results. > > > > >This is true, and I'd recommend that you call your local > > > AZ first to see what model of code reader they're using. > > >I didn't, and found out that my particular local dealer > > >was still using an older model which would not connect > > >to my OBD-II port. I inquired about the use of a newer > > >reader, but the AZ mgr wasn't too keen on spending the > > >$$ on a new one, when the older model worked for "most" > > >cars. > > > > >I just did this for a check engine light on my '97 540/6. > > >As suspected, the test showed I had one oxygen sensor > > >on bank one going out. They reset the light and it > > >hasn't come back on. When I get a minute, I'm replacing > > >all four of my o2 sensors, since I'm almost at 100K anyway. > > > > Did the code indicate a specific O2 sensor, or did it more > > generally indicate that one of the sensors was foul? I > > recently had my convertor replaced under warranty, due to a > > loose heat shield...yes, a loose shield and voila, a new cat. > > With the new cat, I think a new O2 sensor or 2 would have > > been installed, assuming that there's one or more pre/post cat. > > > > Grant > > Chicago > > 98 M3/4...powered by Dinan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- 2 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:49:51 -0600 > From: Steve Klein <klein@robinsonad.com> > Subject: Re: Window Rattle > > Can aging body gaskets around the door and window be responsible for > this? I've got the exact same symptoms (lower the window just a squinch > and it stops) and I've also got a tiny leak when I wash the car just > above where the mirror is on the driver side. I've attributed this to > the fact that not having a garage for the past year combined with seven > years of service has taken its toll on the pliability of the rubber > gaskets. > > Any thoughts? > Cheers, > Steve > > > > > -------------------- 3 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:51:15 -0600 > From: Steve Klein <klein@robinsonad.com> > Subject: Touch Up Paint > > Can anyone point me to a source for some touch up paint (11/95 Cosmos)? > Is this a dealer item? > > TIA, > Steve > > > > > -------------------- 4 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:56:15 -0800 (PST) > From: "Wesley A. Nicolas" <wes@nicolas.org> > Subject: RE: Service II and steering questions > > I just fixed this problem on my 11/94 production M3....the > upper bearing was shot. I also recently replaced my motor > mounts and I believe my now previous mechanic pulled the > subframe down and damaged the u-joint (at bottom of steering > column) which pushed the steering column out about 1/4" too > much increasing the play. Lets hope you just need to > replace the upper bearing which is relatively cheap at about > $10 plus labor. > > Good luck, > Wes > '95 M3 > > >I've noticed that I can move my steering column up & > >down just a bit when I hold the steering wheel, it seems > >that the bolts that hold the steering column (under the > >dash) may be a bit loose. How difficult is it to get to > >these and has anybody had anything like this > >happen to their E36?. > > > > -------------------- 5 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:06:20 -0500 > From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> > Subject: Re: E46 M3 brake swap? > > on 2/13/03 10:59 AM, "Juan Bruce" <jbrucebmw@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I have to rebuild one of my front calipers. In order to minimize downtime I > > have been keeping my eye out for another set of calipers so I can just swap > > them. Then today I came across a set or E46 calipers brackets and rotors > > for $350. Does anyone know if its possible to retrofit these to an E36? > > Juan, > > The rebuilding part - replacing the seals and dust boots - takes hardly any > time compared with the remove/replace/bleed phase. Unless you're sending > them out for painting you should just go ahead and do it. > > Neil > 96 M3 > > > > > -------------------- 6 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:54:06 -0800 > From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > At 05:49 PM 2/12/03, m3ltw@msn.com talked about: > >And yet people were there in non-BMWs? > > No, not at those schools that filled up with BMW-drivers. > > There actually was a case where a couple of "students" were turned away - > they had signed up with BMWs but showed up in other marques and were given > refunds and sent home. A friend of mine got into that school because of the > space that opened up (he came out to the track just in case there were any > "no-shows"). > > Jim Bassett > > > > > -------------------- 7 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:28:09 -0800 > From: "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me > > So I'm curious as to exactly what type of creature OBDII is? > Is this a computer system that is unique to BMW's or is it a universal > system amoung all auto-makers? > Do the codes apply to more than one model, more than one make of car or does > each have its own codes. > Was this system legislated into existence and made madatory for all vehicles > or is it a discretionary thing. > How does it differ from OBDI ? > > mark. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com [mailto:Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 7:49 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me > > > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:40:40 -0600 > From: Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com > Subject: Re: My Car is Talking To Me > > > >One other option. If you have an AutoZone close to you, > >they will read the code for >FREE and give you the results. > > >This is true, and I'd recommend that you call your local > > AZ first to see what model of code reader they're using. > >I didn't, and found out that my particular local dealer > >was still using an older model which would not connect > >to my OBD-II port. I inquired about the use of a newer > >reader, but the AZ mgr wasn't too keen on spending the > >$$ on a new one, when the older model worked for "most" > >cars. > > >I just did this for a check engine light on my '97 540/6. > >As suspected, the test showed I had one oxygen sensor > >on bank one going out. They reset the light and it > >hasn't come back on. When I get a minute, I'm replacing > >all four of my o2 sensors, since I'm almost at 100K anyway. > > Did the code indicate a specific O2 sensor, or did it more > generally indicate that one of the sensors was foul? I > recently had my convertor replaced under warranty, due to a > loose heat shield...yes, a loose shield and voila, a new cat. > With the new cat, I think a new O2 sensor or 2 would have > been installed, assuming that there's one or more pre/post cat. > > Grant > Chicago > 98 M3/4...powered by Dinan > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > > -------------------- 8 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:30:31 -0500 > From: "Carey Probst" <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > Based on that, sure am glad that Genesee Valley basis its early acceptance > on BMW CCA/Chapter membership, not the car being driven. > > Seems unfair to take the money and then reject them when they show up. Is > it stated clearly on the registration form that they have to DRIVE a BMW, > not just own one? > > Lots of BMW CCA/GVC members drive non-BMWs at our schools. > > Carey Probst, '99 M3/2, BMW CCA Patroon and Genesee Valley Chapters > JC CAIed and Sharked, Stressed, Schrothed, Gauged, Hitched, X-Braced > > A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, > the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Bassett [mailto:jimbassett@attbi.com] > >And yet people were there in non-BMWs? > > No, not at those schools that filled up with BMW-drivers. > > There actually was a case where a couple of "students" were turned away - > they had signed up with BMWs but showed up in other marques and were given > refunds and sent home. A friend of mine got into that school because of the > space that opened up (he came out to the track just in case there were any > "no-shows"). > > Jim Bassett > > > > > > -------------------- 9 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:40:48 -0600 > From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> wrote: > > > > At 05:49 PM 2/12/03, m3ltw@msn.com talked about: > > >And yet people were there in non-BMWs? > > > > No, not at those schools that filled up with BMW-drivers. > > > > There actually was a case where a couple of "students" were turned > > away - they had signed up with BMWs but showed up in other marques > > and were given refunds and sent home. A friend of mine got into that > > school because of the space that opened up (he came out to the track > > just in case there were any "no-shows"). > > This is getting weird. > At first I though someone was confusing BMW Club membership with BMW car > ownership. There is an IRS requirement to keep non-Club members' revenue > below 15% for all non-profits. > Apparently not. GGC seams to discriminate against non-BMW vehicles. > There is no known to me good reason to require owning and driving a bimmer > to improve one's driving skills. > Personally, I find it a little snobbish. I would probably choose not to > patronize such an organization and sign up for a DE with another club. > > IMHO, > alex f > > > > > > -------------------- 10 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:50:09 -0500 > From: m3ltw@msn.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > Alex F responded to Jim B: > > > > There actually was a case where a couple of "students" were turned > > > away - they had signed up with BMWs but showed up in other marques > > > and were given refunds and sent home. > > > > This is getting weird. > > At first I though someone was confusing BMW Club membership with BMW car > > ownership. > > Windy City (Chicago) requires CCA membership, and builds it into the fee for > non-members (they become a member). In addition, if there are too many > applications, first priority is given to current members (not cars) and then > non/new members. There is no lottery, it is based on application date > (postal mark). > > > Apparently not. GGC seams to discriminate against non-BMW vehicles. > > There is no known to me good reason to require owning and driving a bimmer > > to improve one's driving skills. > > Personally, I find it a little snobbish. > > So do I. And I like the mix of cars...many of the nicest guys I met at Road > America drove Corvettes or Mustangs! > > And, the biggest thrill was always from beating a 911 Turbo with my slow > 325is! It's too bad there isn't any corner in the Bay area like the Kink! > > Dan Snyder > > > > -------------------- 11 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:00:11 -0800 > From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > alex.fadeev@verizon.com at alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > > There is no known to me good reason to require owning and driving a bimmer > > to improve one's driving skills. > > Personally, I find it a little snobbish. I would probably choose not to > > patronize such an organization and sign up for a DE with another club. > > Please do. That will make it easier for those of us with BMW's to get into > the schools. > > - Mark > -- > mark@pdc-racing.net > > > > > -------------------- 12 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:03:28 -0800 > From: "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > The Teutonic hegemony policy instituted by the Golden Gate chapter is one > that I challenged with the board some years ago. But schools were fat with > applicants back then and exclusivity became the rule as a way to cater to > BMW drivers. It's a situation that's probably unique to the demographics of > Silicon Valley and the fact that GGC has 4000 members. And yes the > application says very clearly, BMW's FIRST, and you can apply with another > car but will be at the end of the line for spots/waiting list. > > Before the internet boom they'd take any car at a school as long as you were > a member. There were Ferrari's, Vipers, Porsches, Camaro's, etc. I thought > it was alot more interesting. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carey Probst [mailto:hcprobst@alum.mit.edu] > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:39 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:30:31 -0500 > From: "Carey Probst" <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > Based on that, sure am glad that Genesee Valley basis its early acceptance > on BMW CCA/Chapter membership, not the car being driven. > > Seems unfair to take the money and then reject them when they show up. Is > it stated clearly on the registration form that they have to DRIVE a BMW, > not just own one? > > Lots of BMW CCA/GVC members drive non-BMWs at our schools. > > Carey Probst, '99 M3/2, BMW CCA Patroon and Genesee Valley Chapters > JC CAIed and Sharked, Stressed, Schrothed, Gauged, Hitched, X-Braced > > A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, > the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Bassett [mailto:jimbassett@attbi.com] > >And yet people were there in non-BMWs? > > No, not at those schools that filled up with BMW-drivers. > > There actually was a case where a couple of "students" were turned away - > they had signed up with BMWs but showed up in other marques and were given > refunds and sent home. A friend of mine got into that school because of the > space that opened up (he came out to the track just in case there were any > "no-shows"). > > Jim Bassett > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > > -------------------- 13 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:02:45 -0800 > From: Rex Tener <rex_tener@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: non BMWs at CCA driver schools > > At 12:49 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > >Apparently not. GGC seams to discriminate against non-BMW vehicles. > >There is no known to me good reason to require owning and driving a bimmer > >to improve one's driving skills. > >Personally, I find it a little snobbish. I would probably choose not to > >patronize such an organization and sign up for a DE with another club. > > I am not involved in GGC other than being a member and occasional autocross > participant. My guess is, in the completely car crazy San Francisco Bay > Area, marque clubs have to limit participation to their marque if they > don't want to be over run by non-marques at their event. > > In the SF Bay Area autox world, the SCCA requires membership, and still is > averaging over 300 drivers an event since the beginning of the year. They > used to allow membership purchase at the event, but after dozens, if not > hundreds of bad checks written for membership, they had to discontinue it. > > One insight .... > > -- > Rex Tener > rex_tener@yahoo.com > 1996 BMW M3, SCCA SFR Solo II Street-Mod #173 > > > > > > -------------------- 14 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:06:19 -0500 > From: Gcfuller@aol.com > Subject: Re: My Car is Talking To Me > > Grant- > The Autozone test did reveal which sensor was acting up. It was "pre-catalyst, > bank one." I'm not completely sure which side of the v8 is bank one, but I > assumed the driver's side and am doing all sensors pre and post catalyst anyway > this weekend. I would not assume they replaced the o2 sensor with the cat. In > fact, I would really doubt it. They last 100k and more these days, and that > would be an extra cost to BMW/the dealer. If it is new, it will be really shiny > and would show up on the warranty receipt. > I see you are in Chicago - I just drove back from there last night to St. Louis. > > Also - for those of you asking about 540's - feel free to contact me. I have a > '97 six speed with 96k. With it being a first model year car and the mounting > mileage, I am well aware of the cars quirks and strong points. Great car for > business and highway cruising, (comfortable, fun and very fast) but my M3 gets > the nod on the weekends. I plan on driving it for work as long as it will go. > My last fiver was retired at 350K, and only because it was starting to look its > age and mileage, and the fact that I found a sweethart deal on the 540... > > > > > >I just did this for a check engine light on my '97 540/6. > >As suspected, the test showed I had one oxygen sensor > >on bank one going out. They reset the light and it > >hasn't come back on. When I get a minute, I'm replacing > >all four of my o2 sensors, since I'm almost at 100K anyway. > > Did the code indicate a specific O2 sensor, or did it more > generally indicate that one of the sensors was foul? I > recently had my convertor replaced under warranty, due to a > loose heat shield...yes, a loose shield and voila, a new cat. > With the new cat, I think a new O2 sensor or 2 would have > been installed, assuming that there's one or more pre/post cat. > > Grant > Chicago > 98 M3/4...powered by Dinan > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* >
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#8. RE: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me - from Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:45:20 -0600 From: Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me Mark wrote: >So I'm curious as to exactly what type of creature OBDII is? >Is this a computer system that is unique to BMW's or is it a >universal system amoung all auto-makers? It's universal. >Do the codes apply to more than one model, more than one >make of car or does each have its own codes. Good question...I don't know. >Was this system legislated into existence and made mandatory >for all vehicles or is it a discretionary thing. >How does it differ from OBDI? It's legislation that took effect in the mid-to-late 90's. I believe the thrust behind OBD 1 is environmental (reduced emissions, better mileage etc.) Sorry, but I don't have specifics. mark.
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me (off topic) - from Dames, Mark
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:50:39 -0800 From: "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me (off topic) Tnx Andy. 12 years of ignorance cured in one e-mail. This is why I like you guys! Mark. -----Original Message----- From: andy radin [mailto:fourfa@fourfa.com] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:08 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Re: My Car is Talking To Me (off topic) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:59:58 -0800 From: "andy radin" <fourfa@fourfa.com> Subject: Re: My Car is Talking To Me (off topic) "So I'm curious as to exactly what type of creature OBDII is? Is this a computer system that is unique to BMW's or is it a universal system amoung all auto-makers? Do the codes apply to more than one model, more than one make of car or does each have its own codes. Was this system legislated into existence and made madatory for all vehicles or is it a discretionary thing. How does it differ from OBDI ?" It's an EPA-mandated program across all manufacturers as of Jan 1 1996 (from the horse's mouth - http://www.epa.gov/otaq/obd-faq.htm). The connector and codes are standardized, although some cars (like ours) have additional proprietary connectors that can yield more info than the standard plug (under the driver's dash). OBD-1 was required as of 1990, and basically was the first legal mandate for closed-loop MAP or MAF-based sequential fuel injection systems with oxygen sensors (although it was tough to meet the EPA passenger-car smog limits without one anyway). This did away with the last of the nasty throttle injection systems and the very last carbureted trucks. It included some error checking of sensor outputs and would light a check engine light in case of gross failure. OBD1 was not standardized, and California requirements were stricter still, so we saw a lot of cars fitted for California or 49-state emissions, and a lot of variety between manufacturers in connectors, CE light thresholds, depth of redundancy, etc. ODB-2 is loaded with semi-redundant sensors cross-checking each other (requires both MAP and MAF sensors, pre and post catalyst sensors, etc), the idea being to be able to pinpoint a sensor or engine failure, store it, and read it out at standardized test equipment. This was strict enough for CA, so it's now a nationwide standard (CA is satisfied with merely banning any unapproved modifications) until the new CA CO2 laws go in. There is some variety in OBD-2 implementation, yet. BMW's system seems to be stricter than some other makes regarding misfire, catalyst operating range etc, probably in excess of the legal minimum. This has led to the familiar grousing in the aftermarket. andy r.
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#10. RE: [E36M3] My Car is Talking To Me - from Dames, Mark
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:06:56 -0800 From: "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> Subject: RE: [E36M3] My Car is Talking To Me Just did the Peake tool thing (Thanks to Zack S.) and it reports an "F3" which apparently translates to "misfire cylinder 6". The check engine light has been off for a couple of days now and the car appears to be running fine, no perceptible miss that I can tell. Is there further suggested diagnostics and/or preemptive work to do from here? Could this be the start of the cascading coil/DME failure we have recently heard tale of? Car has 80K on the clock. Suggestions? mark 98 M3/4 -----Original Message----- From: Chris Teague [mailto:cteague@cox.net] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 7:59 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] My Car is Talking To Me Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:58:54 -0800 From: "Chris Teague" <cteague@cox.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] My Car is Talking To Me Mark, You need a fault code reader, like the one peake research sells. Or borrow one. That will tell you what she's trying to say. They run about $150 and can reset the service lights also. Other choice is take it to a shop, but if you are like many of us who do our own work, the $150 pays for itself like the first time you need it. Chris 97 M3/4 > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:12:02 -0800 > From: "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> > Subject: My Car is Talking To Me > > > Folks: > > This AM my '98 M3's "check engine" light came on. > > No messages down in the on-board computer screen. > The car's inspection lights have been on for a month, but I've been doing > all the filters/fluids/plugs myself so I felt free to ignore it. > Heretofore its all been hardware stuff for me, bushings, springs, bars, > shocks etc. etc. etc. So I've ignored all of your techno banter about "fault > codes", and other black box wizardry. > > Now I would like to know what's going on. How do you interpret baby's first > words, etc? > Do I have to ship it back to Munich to find out OR is there something that > could happen closer to my garage? > Car seems to run fine except maybe a overly smooth/slightly less crisp > throttle response which hints of being too rich to me. Although, the gas > mileage (per computer-and reset with new tankful)still is in the 24 mpg > range (but maybe it didn't climb to 24 after reset as fast as before) > > Your accumulated wisdom and enlightenment will be appreciated. > > Mark. ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************