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#1. Re: Cars pulls sideways under acceleration - from Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:13:35 -0500 From: <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> Subject: Re: Cars pulls sideways under acceleration > I have recently started noticing that under hard acceleration my vehicle > pulls to the right, and then when I take my foot off the gas, it then pulls > towards the left? Very disconcerting indeed. It is a 98 M3 with 57K miles, > totally stock. > One simple possibility is that you have one tire under inflated. I frequently lose air pressure on the right rear in the very cold, and this causes the symptom you describe. Regards, Stan Shaw Excell.Net Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0421 Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net http://www.excell.net/ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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#2. Tire Installer Recommendation - from Geof McLaughlin
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:22:52 -0500 From: Geof McLaughlin <gfmiiilist@attbi.com> Subject: Tire Installer Recommendation Can anyone recommend a good tire installer in the Mansfield, MA area that does not charge an arm and a leg? I had been dealing with Direct Tire in Norwood which was previously offering tire dismounting, mounting and balance for $25/tire which was not too bad, but Direct Tire is now at $45/tire!!! Thanks. Geof
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Cars pulls sideways under acceleration - from Rich Beebe
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:27:02 -0500 From: Rich Beebe <rich@beebecomm.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Cars pulls sideways under acceleration if you're feeling it in the rear of the car, it's almost certainly your rear trailing arm bushings. i had the same thing happening - changed the bushings with the later 96+ bushings and Ground Control shims and the car feels great now. i changed them on my LTW too, just to make sure the car felt as 'tight' as possible. rich From: "Low, Roan" <Roan.Low@kellogg.com> > Hi, > > I have recently started noticing that under hard acceleration my vehicle > pulls to the right, and then when I take my foot off the gas, it then pulls > towards the left? Very disconcerting indeed. It is a 98 M3 with 57K miles, > totally stock. > > All opinions appreciated. > > Thanks, > Roan
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#4. RE: [E36M3] Cars pulls sideways under acceleration - from James Clay
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:56:39 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cars pulls sideways under acceleration There is also a chance that rear subframe bushings are worn. We had a customer replace these after all the others and finally took care of the problem. The R trailing arm or toe bushing is the usual suspect, but check the subframe while you are there. James James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com Engineered BMW Performance 540.639.9648
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Stock M3 spring rates - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:30:51 -0600 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stock M3 spring rates "Vern Anderson" <vernon_anderson@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I know this has been discussed many times on the list, but when looking > through my archives, I found about 10 different answers. I'm curious > about the stock springs on a 1995 and 1996-1999 E36 M3 - what type and > what rate they are. I've heard claims they are progressive, I've heard > claims they are actually linear even though they appear progressive, I've > heard spring rates that vary wildly. Vern, Stock M3 springs are most definitely progressive. That is pretty obvious when you have them in your hands or by observing how unevenly the perches are compressed on the car. The trick is measuring the springs rates at static ride height. I forgot the exact measurements, but the stock springs are significantly preloaded. So measuring the resistance during first 2-3 inches of travel is meaningless since all of that will be taken up by the time the springs are installed. Some people content that after you preload stock springs, their resistance > Ben Liaw's analysis using a spring testing machine > (http://www.bmw-m.net/techdata/spring.htm) seems to indicate that they > are linear (am I reading that correctly?) and about 87-98 #/in front > and 210-240 #/in rear. I seam to recall that whomever inherited that machine from Ben complained that it was badly miscalibrated. Or I could be thinking of another event altogether. > Previously, I've heard 115-135# front and 335-350# rear. Is there a > concensous on this anywhere? I doubt it ;-) Seriously though, even if you did know the exact stock and aftermarket spring rates, how would you apply that knowledge? What would be your formula for custom valving the shocks to match the springs (given rate, height, etc)? > I'm not asking just for idle curiousity or to stir up another debate, > but because I'm trying another suspension baseline setup on my 98 M3 > and I wanted to know the stock rates and F/R ratio. Thanks, Vern, What combo are you trying out? alex f '95 M3 with TC Kline's TrackLine kit ++
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Cars pulls sideways under acceleration - from Low, Roan
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:30:53 -0600 From: "Low, Roan" <Roan.Low@kellogg.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cars pulls sideways under acceleration Huge thanks to James who took the time to talk to me over the phone, and to all your others who replied both on and off list. I figure I am going to follow Rob's example and replace all bushings in the back, with PowerFlex ones where possible. I would also welcome off-list opinions on the suspension kits from TCKline, bimmerworld and Ground Control, as I may end up doing that at the same time. Thanks, Roan. -----Original Message----- From: James Clay [mailto:james@bimmerworld.com] Sent: 27 February 2003 12:53 To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cars pulls sideways under acceleration Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:56:39 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Cars pulls sideways under acceleration There is also a chance that rear subframe bushings are worn. We had a customer replace these after all the others and finally took care of the problem. The R trailing arm or toe bushing is the usual suspect, but check the subframe while you are there. James James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com Engineered BMW Performance 540.639.9648 ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#7. Subject: polished contour wheel - from Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:16:59 -0600 From: Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com Subject: Subject: polished contour wheel Sorry for your loss Jay. Southern California ...> pothole? And I thought only those of us in the Midwest/snowy states had pot hole problems. Grant Chicago 98 M3/4...powered by Dinan >Anybody in southern california have or now of a single >available bmw single piece polished contour wheel for a >95 M3 >a #%&* pot hole cracked my original wheel >thanks in advance >Jay >95M3 sharked/intaked
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Subject: polished contour wheel - from Jon Phillips
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:07:01 -0800 From: jon@maximumpc.com (Jon Phillips) Subject: Re: [E36M3] Subject: polished contour wheel According to the California Commuter's Alliance, California has the worst road conditions in the United States. Water (be it from rain or snow) causes potholes. But the real factor is how dilligently potholes are dealt with. Our local politicians put road repair at the back of the to-do list. Factor in the immense amount of heavy trucks going over neglected roadways, and you have a serious road wear problem in California. In San Francisco, our entire South of Market area has third-world country road conditions. At 02:23 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com wrote: >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:16:59 -0600 >From: Grant.Fairweather@abbott.com >Subject: Subject: polished contour wheel > > >Sorry for your loss Jay. > >Southern California ...> pothole? And I thought only >those of us in the Midwest/snowy states had pot hole problems. > >Grant >Chicago >98 M3/4...powered by Dinan > > > >Anybody in southern california have or now of a single > >available bmw single piece polished contour wheel for a > >95 M3 > > >a #%&* pot hole cracked my original wheel > > >thanks in advance > >Jay > >95M3 sharked/intaked > > >************************************************* >Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: >Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com >Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com >Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > >DIGEST INFORMATION: >http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >************************************************* ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Jon Phillips jphillips@maximumpc.com editor-in-chief 415-656-8778 Maximum PC magazine www.maximumpc.com Maximum PC/Future Network USA 150 North Hill Drive, Ste. 40 Brisbane, CA 94005 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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#9. Anyone have a complete TC Kline suspension set-up? - from Jamie Thomas
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:03:20 -0800 From: "Jamie Thomas" <midpoint@mindspring.com> Subject: Anyone have a complete TC Kline suspension set-up? I have the opportunity to get a TC Kline package for my 97 M3/4. The = Double Adjustable Kit includes; Front Coil Over Struts and Rear Shocks, = Springs and Rear Spring Adjusters, and Rear Upper Shock Mounts plus the = Adjustable Camber Plates and Racing Dynamic swaybars. The car is a = daily driver, track, auto-x and rally car. It sees about 20 of these = events per year. Anyone have any experience with this set-up? Any = opinions welcome. BTW, I am completely fine with my noisy tires and = would not mind a stiffer ride. After all, this car is for fun! Jamie Thomas Everett, WA 97 M3/4 <----getting very tired with its original parts after 95,000 = miles
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Stock M3 spring rates - from Chester Wong
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:26:42 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Stock M3 spring rates --- alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: >> Vern, > Stock M3 springs are most definitely progressive. That is pretty obvious > when you have them in your hands or by observing how unevenly the perches > are compressed on the car. > The trick is measuring the springs rates at static ride height. I forgot > the exact measurements, but the stock springs are significantly preloaded. > So measuring the resistance during first 2-3 inches of travel is > meaningless since all of that will be taken up by the time the springs are > installed. Some people content that after you preload stock springs, their > resistance Huh? Wha?? Stock springs are not progressive at all! How unevenly the perches (what perches) are compressed? As observed by what? How about if I told you that we took a stock rear spring and measured the forces the spring generated as it was compressed from static to nearly coil bind? Would you say that I didn't preload it enough? How about if I told you from that experiment, the stock rear spring showed an increase of 300# of force for each inch of compression? > > Ben Liaw's analysis using a spring testing machine > > (http://www.bmw-m.net/techdata/spring.htm) seems to indicate that they > > are linear (am I reading that correctly?) and about 87-98 #/in front > > and 210-240 #/in rear. > > I seam to recall that whomever inherited that machine from Ben complained > that it was badly miscalibrated. Or I could be thinking of another event > altogether. What would you consider miscalibrated? How badly can something be out of calibration? If for some start point and then you compress an inch and you register 300# of force and then for the next inch you register 305# more and then for the next inch of travel you have 310# more, would you say that it is progressive? To me, the fact that the rate rises 5#/inch is insignificant. > > Previously, I've heard 115-135# front and 335-350# rear. Is there a > > concensous on this anywhere? > > I doubt it ;-) > Seriously though, even if you did know the exact stock and aftermarket > spring rates, how would you apply that knowledge? What would be your > formula for custom valving the shocks to match the springs (given rate, > height, etc)? Guess what...they are. Don't mind me...I've been in a meeting with an imbecile with broken English and bad breath. Not only that, but she has man hands....MAN HANDS I SAY!! Ugh... Chester =====
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#11. Re: [E36M3] Anyone have a complete TC Kline suspension set-up? - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:27:06 -0600 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Anyone have a complete TC Kline suspension set-up? "Jamie Thomas" <midpoint@mindspring.com> wrote: > > I have the opportunity to get a TC Kline package for my 97 M3/4. The > Double Adjustable Kit includes; Front Coil Over Struts and Rear Shocks, > Springs and Rear Spring Adjusters, and Rear Upper Shock Mounts plus the > Adjustable Camber Plates and Racing Dynamic swaybars. The car is a > daily driver, track, auto-x and rally car. It sees about 20 of these > events per year. Anyone have any experience with this set-up? Jamie, I have a similar setup, with Koni SA's instead of DA's and Eibachs instead of RD sway bars. My TCK's TrackLine kit came with H&R Sport (stage 2) front and Race (stage 4) rear springs. The car is a bit rough below 40mph, OK between 40-80mph and wonderful on track or above 80mph on the street. > Any opinions welcome. BTW, I am completely fine with my noisy tires > and would not mind a stiffer ride. After all, this car is for fun! I think you'll be happy with the setup. Depending on the price, you may also be a stone throw away from getting GC c/o with the same Koni DAs. That would make for a more adjustable setup and a quicker track car. Depending on the spring rate chosen, the ride could range from similar to TCK's to unstreetworthy. alex f