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#1. RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 11:25:51 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? > If you need injectors at 280 crank hp, that works out > to be in the high 230's (238ish) at the wheels. With > a track pipe and euro hfm intake, you should be right > there. People have dynoed with just the euro hfm > intake and gotten close to 230whp, so if the track > pipe only adds 10whp, you're right up at the limit of > the stock injectors. I agree that you could exceed the 275-280 crank hp range when you can do something to increase the gains higher than JC chip, Euro HFM and JC intake combination provides which can get you into the ~270 hp range at the crank and larger injectors would be merited. I don't know much about the AA track pipe but another 10 hp would about do it I guess (I would be surprised if 20hp gains are achievable with just a AA track pipe). With only the AA track pipe installed, what spots are the smallest or most restrictive on the exhaust side of a 1995 M3? The joint/flange from the manifolds to the track pipe or the joint/flange from the track pipe to the muffler? From what I gather listening to certain experienced BMW tuners, these are the bottle necks in the system along with the US cat. Also, I am still interested in the idea of increasing the injector size though from 17.5 to 24. Can the DME adjust for that change or do you need a software change also? I always thought you needed a software change to in order to properly handle that significant of a change in the injectors. Regards, Rich - interested in my M3's exhaust system and potential gains.
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#2. Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from Steven Tom
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:38:50 -0700 From: Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? Just as another data point, I was able to max out the 21.5lb injectors ('96-99) around 240-245rwhp on a cold day. Someone's going to have to do the math to work backwards for the 17.5lb injectors. Though I still don't know how your going to get around the software side of things to make sure that everything is running the right a/f. steve At 09:03 AM 4/9/2003 -0600, DocWyte wrote: >Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:02:25 -0700 (PDT) >From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> >Subject: RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? > >If you need injectors at 280 crank hp, that works out >to be in the high 230's (238ish) at the wheels. With >a track pipe and euro hfm intake, you should be right >there. People have dynoed with just the euro hfm >intake and gotten close to 230whp, so if the track >pipe only adds 10whp, you're right up at the limit of >the stock injectors. > >-josh
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:51:53 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I have a euro hfm, jc intake and chip. I'll be adding > a track pipe soon. Let's put it this way. 24 lb injectors > are needed for cams, which ass 10 whp and 10 wft lbs of > torque across the band. A track pipe adds twice that amount > in hp and practically three times that amount in torque to > the wheels across the band. (if the dyno's are believable) Josh, Are you sure we are talking about exhaust, not crack pipes? ;-) alex f (yet to hear about an exhaust that adds for then 5-7 horses and at least preserves the torque).
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#4. Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:56:52 -0500 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> wrote: > > Also, I am still interested in the idea of increasing the injector > size though from 17.5 to 24. Can the DME adjust for that change > or do you need a software change also? You need a new chip. Might as well throw in the cam kit while you are at it... alex f
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#5. Re: 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? - from Ron Buchalski
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 12:37:54 -0400 From: "Ron Buchalski" <rbuchals@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? Regarding BMW's use of 5W-30 synthetic oil year round, I don't think their idea of normal use is extended operation in the upper RPM range. One DE weekend event stresses the oil much more than normal driving does. As far as the debate about thinner or thicker motor oils, the multigrade oils that we use CHANGE viscosity with temperature. For example, with a 10W-30 oil, the number in front of the 'W' (10) refers to the oil's viscosity in Winter (which is measured at -18C, or roughly zero F). The upper number is measured at 100C (212F), and indicates the viscosity of the oil at this temperature (it's thinned as much as a straight 30-weight oil would thin at 100C). Check out these links: http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/takea.htm http://www.dirtroad.com/oil.htm http://edmunds.nytimes.com/ownership/driving/articles/44791/article.html I originally began using Mobil 1 15W-50 in my M3, but switched to 10W-30 two years ago. However, after reading the responses to your inquiry, as well as reviewing Mobil 1's recommendations: http://www.mobil1.com/tools/which/index.jsp If you rely on the manufacturer's recommendations, which ignore any differences between synthetic or petroleum-based oils, and you'll come up with the recommendations that the Mobil 1 link provides. I never understood why BMW would recommend 15W-40 oil for summer months, but 5W-30 synthetic oil for the same conditions. I sent an inquiry to BMW (Owner's Circle) two years ago, and the recommendation (without explanation) was for 5W-30 synthetic oil, year round. No consideration of driving conditions was included. So the question remains: What criteria did BMW use to determine that a synthetic 5W-30 oil was an adequate replacement for a petroleum based 15W-40 oil (which is what the summer recommendations are for our M3s). I think I'll switch back to 15W-50, at least during the track season. I generally don't drive the car during the winter months, but will switch oil to 10W-30 after the last track event of the year. On a related note, are there any mechanical engineering types on this list who know what engineering considerations are made when recommending a motor oil for an engine? We tend to rely on a chart in the onwer's manual, or an oil manufacturer's website (which relies on manufacturer's recommendations), but I've never read an engineering explanation of what considerations are given to develop an oil recommendation. Ron Buchalski BMWCCA #76387 1995 E36 M3 1993 E34 525iT 1999 Mazda Miata >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:21:56 EDT >From: Gcfuller@aol.com >Subject: 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? > > >Gosh, I hope I don't start a war. But, from what I understand a thick >SYTHETIC does not offer any more protection in hotter weather than a >thinner >one, and may actually be worse in some cases, i.e. lifter ticking. >If we were talking CONVENTIONAL oil, this would be true, but sythetics do >not >thin nearly as much as conventional oils, and have a much higher film >strength. In fact, a thinner synthetic oil circulates faster, drawing >more >heat away from the engine parts, and providing more consistant lubrication. > >This is why BMW recommends a 15W40 or higher conventional oil, but only a >5W30 synthetic year round. And, they also changed the BMW brand oil from >a >5W40 to a 5W30. >It is also why some autocrossers (so i have heard - I don't autocross) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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#6. Re: [E36M3] 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? - from Mdriver13@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:52:21 EDT From: Mdriver13@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? I have used Mobil 1 15W50 in summer (through autox season), and 10W30 in winter. No problems. Bob Gill 97 ///M3 coupe Philly Region SCCA AS Champion '97 & '00 BSP Champion '01 & '02
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#7. Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from DocWyte
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:54:59 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? New 24lb JC chip from Turner $250 24lb injectors $165 TOTAL $415 Schrick cam package $1600 (assuming you already have intake/hfm) Install of said cams $500 TOTAL $2100 Yep, might as well pony up the remaining $1700 for the cam package cause it's so cheap. -josh --- alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:56:52 -0500 > From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a > 24lb injector buy? > > "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> wrote: > > > > Also, I am still interested in the idea of > increasing the injector > > size though from 17.5 to 24. Can the DME adjust > for that change > > or do you need a software change also? > > You need a new chip. > Might as well throw in the cam kit while you are at > it... > > alex f > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from DocWyte
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:56:51 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? Track pipe (ie, mid pipe getting rid of the cats) Alex, not a cat back exhaust. I think everyone here agrees that a cat back exhaust is done for sound, not for power gains. -josh --- alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:51:53 -0500 > From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a > 24lb injector buy? > > DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > I have a euro hfm, jc intake and chip. I'll be > adding > > a track pipe soon. Let's put it this way. 24 lb > injectors > > are needed for cams, which ass 10 whp and 10 wft > lbs of > > torque across the band. A track pipe adds twice > that amount > > in hp and practically three times that amount in > torque to > > the wheels across the band. (if the dyno's are > believable) > > Josh, > Are you sure we are talking about exhaust, not crack > pipes? > ;-) > > alex f (yet to hear about an exhaust that adds for > then 5-7 horses and at > least preserves the torque). > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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#9. Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from DocWyte
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? Turner sells a Jim Conforti chip mapped for the euro hfm and 24 lb injectors, so software isn't a problem. -josh --- Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> wrote: > Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:38:50 -0700 > From: Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a > 24lb injector buy? > > Just as another data point, I was able to max out > the 21.5lb injectors > ('96-99) around 240-245rwhp on a cold day. > Someone's going to have to do > the math to work backwards for the 17.5lb injectors. > Though I still don't > know how your going to get around the software side > of things to make sure > that everything is running the right a/f. > > steve > > At 09:03 AM 4/9/2003 -0600, DocWyte wrote: > >Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:02:25 -0700 (PDT) > >From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> > >Subject: RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector > buy? > > > >If you need injectors at 280 crank hp, that works > out > >to be in the high 230's (238ish) at the wheels. > With > >a track pipe and euro hfm intake, you should be > right > >there. People have dynoed with just the euro hfm > >intake and gotten close to 230whp, so if the track > >pipe only adds 10whp, you're right up at the limit > of > >the stock injectors. > > > >-josh > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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#10. Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:12:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? Well, I have said tools needed to install cams....so you can trim off $500 :) Chester --- DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > Schrick cam package $1600 > (assuming you already have intake/hfm) > Install of said cams $500 > TOTAL $2100 > > Yep, might as well pony up the remaining $1700 for the > cam package cause it's so cheap. =====