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#1. Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from mike
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:00:05 -0400 From: "mike" <95m3ltw@charter.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? Well, I have seen several track pipes, custom exhausts dynoed. A simple track pipe replacing the cats is not going to give you those numbers or give you any numbers like cams. And, their numbers on cams are wrong too. They actually give more, haha. But dont take my word for it, buy it and test it. Maybe they have discovered a flux capacity for a track pipe or something. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "DocWyte" <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> To: "mike" <95m3ltw@charter.net>; "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? > Mike, > > Geuss you missed this part "(if the dyno's are > believable)" of my post below. > > Even if the AA dyno is off by 50%, the track pipe > still adds as much power as a set of schrick cams, > which require bigger injectors. > > As to the veracity of the AA dyno, my friend has their > supercharger system on his M coupe. They dynoed it on > their dyno, then he redynoed it on a dynojet here. > Geuss what? The numbers were the same. Hmmm... > > Wonder who's on the crack pipe now? > > -josh > > > --- mike <95m3ltw@charter.net> wrote: > > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:25:26 -0400 > > From: "mike" <95m3ltw@charter.net> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a > > 24lb injector buy? > > > > Where are you getting your numbers? from a track > > pipe or crack pipe? > > > > 20hp and 30ftlbs of torque? > > > > If you find a track pipe that will do that, start > > selling them as everybody > > elses doenst, according to the dynos in the real > > world, not AA dynos in > > fantasy land. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "DocWyte" <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> > > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:33 AM > > Subject: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb > > injector buy? > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:28:08 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> > > > Subject: Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector > > buy? > > > > > > Yes, he really told me that. > > > > > > I have a euro hfm, jc intake and chip. I'll be > > adding > > > a track pipe soon. > > > > > > Let's put it this way. 24 lb injectors are needed > > for > > > cams, which ass 10 whp and 10 wft lbs of torque > > across > > > the band. A track pipe adds twice that amount in > > hp > > > and practically three times that amount in torque > > to > > > the wheels across the band. (if the dyno's are > > > believable) > > > > > > I was worried that the stock 17.5lb injectors > > wouldn't > > > be able to keep up and Josh@Eurosport confirmed > > it. > > > > > > -josh > > > > > > --- "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> > > wrote: > > > > > On the advice of Josh@Eurosport I'm going to > > pick > > > > a > > > > > set of these up. He thinks I'll be pushing my > > > > stock > > > > > 17.5lb injectors pretty close to the limit > > with my > > > > > next mod and I'd rather have a little more > > > > injector > > > > > headroom. > > > > > > > > Really, Josh told you that? What set-up do you > > have? > > > > Are you sure Josh told you that? Are you getting > > a > > > > software change too? Josh really told you that > > huh? > > > > > > > > Later, > > > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, > > forms, and more > > > http://tax.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > > sponsors: > > > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > > sponsors: > > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://tax.yahoo.com
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from ChuckBrazeau@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:01:13 EDT From: ChuckBrazeau@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? chester_p_wong@yahoo.com writes: "VANOS schmaNOS" Maybe another T-shirt slogan? :-) Chuck Brazeau '95 BMW M3 - Violet on Black SCCA Solo2 - Street Modified #95 <A HREF="http://www.brazeauracing.com/">http://www.brazeauracing.com/</A>
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from DocWyte
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:10:53 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? So let's see these dynos of cams that add so much hp! Every dyno I've seen (and they posted before and after cams dynos, using the same dyno) showed very lackluster gains considering the $$ investment. I'm not kidding, several people dynoed and posted sheets showing +10whp and +10 ft lbs of torque. Seems to me that's not that much power and can easily be obtained by a well engineered track pipe/exhaust system. However, I do plan on dynoing the track pipe before and after and if it doesn't add anything, it won't be staying on the car. I am skeptical of the gains shown on AA's site and have been waiting to see dyno's from all the people who've bought them. I kind of stumbled into a deal I couldn't refuse for one, so I bought it before seeing independent results. -josh --- mike <95m3ltw@charter.net> wrote: > Well, > > I have seen several track pipes, custom exhausts > dynoed. A simple track > pipe replacing the cats is not going to give you > those numbers or give you > any numbers like cams. And, their numbers on cams > are wrong too. They > actually give more, haha. > > But dont take my word for it, buy it and test it. > Maybe they have > discovered a flux capacity for a track pipe or > something. > > Mike > ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:14:09 EDT From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? 95m3ltw@charter.net writes: > Where are you getting your numbers? from a track pipe or crack pipe? > > 20hp and 30ftlbs of torque? > > If you find a track pipe that will do that, start selling them as everybody > elses doenst, according to the dynos in the real world, not AA dynos in > fantasy land. > If you look at AA's web site, it is confusing what they are saying. <A HREF="http://activeautowerke.com/exhaust/ExhTrackPipe-E36.asp">http://activeautowerke.com/exhaust/ExhTrackPipe-E36.asp</A> On the link above, it says the track pipe gains +26 WHP. [I'm just talking about '95 M3 here] But then you go and look at their two links for the performance data sheet and the dyno graph and you see they are comparing apples to oranges. The data sheet compares maximum net change in torque/hp at each RPM. The maximums are highlighted. 29.98 ft-lbs at 4200 rpm and 26.07 hp at 5400 rpm. But then you look at the dyno graph and AA compares maximum peak values regardless of RPM. Now the maximum gains are 28.2 ft-lbs and 18.5 hp. Which do you want? In my mind, the truest measurement is PEAK values. It doesn't seem fair to compare hp at the same rpm. One combination may make more power at a higher or lower rpm than the other engine. So I would say AA should at the least advertise only 18.5 hp gain, not 26. But my bigger question is how was the test done? You need to eliminate all of the variables to get a true comparison. It needs to be the same car, same dyno, same environmental conditions, same operator, same procedure, same gasoline. Ideally, you would do the comparison immediately after the first test. Then rerun the first combination to verify the first test was valid. I see AA peak hp with the track pipe is 217.9 hp. We have a totally stock '95 M3 here in Dallas that turns over 223 rwhp - absolutely no mods to it. So if AA is claiming 20+ hp and only has 217.9 hp, then it must be a very weak M3 to start with. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 BMW CCA #131505
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#5. crack pipe? - from Kit Wetzler
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:23:37 -0700 From: "Kit Wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> Subject: crack pipe? > Wonder who's on the crack pipe now? Don't worry, it's still you. ;) AA quotes the Max power gain, not the power gain at max HP. There is a BIG difference. For example, my gained about 15 hp at 7000 rpm, but only about 3-4 hp at max hp when I put my Dinan intake on the first time. See the difference? Secondly, AA is quoting the difference of the crack pipe AND their exhaust. The track pipe does significantly increase the area under the curve. However, with a stock exhaust, it really doesn't make a whole lot more power. The cats are a significant power bottleneck, though. Just remember, especially those of you in Smog Check II areas, in the people's republic of CA... it's legal to have roadside dynos on which they do spot checking of emissions. Not having cats is a $1500 fine. And, on a load based dyno emissions test, it's REALLY obvious that you don't have cats. I'm probably going to risk it, new cats are a lot more expensive than the crack pipe, so I figure if I can keep the crack pipe on the car and save the stock cats, all will be good. Also, it allows you to get much more accurate a/f ratios for tuning, without welding a bung onto the exhaust pre-cats. -kit
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#6. Re: [E36M3] 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:37:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? Uh...if you can find it. I've never seen it in stores....only in magazine ads. Oil-vaporware? Chester --- ChuckBrazeau@aol.com wrote: > > Just curious what everyones thoughts are on Mobil 1's 0W40 oil that is their > "European Car Formula"? =====
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W40 (was 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer) - from ChuckBrazeau@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:46:07 -0400 From: ChuckBrazeau@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W40 (was 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer) I've been running it in my car since October '02. Got it at AutoZone in my little hick town of Amarillo, TX (picked up another 8 quarts just yesterday for another transfusion). :-D Chuck Brazeau '95 BMW M3 - Violet on Black SCCA Solo2 - Street Modified #95 http://www.brazeauracing.com/ In a message dated 4/9/2003 2:37:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, chester_p_wong@yahoo.com writes: > Uh...if you can find it. I've never seen it in > stores....only in magazine ads. > Oil-vaporware? > > Chester
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#8. Re: [E36M3] crack pipe? - from DocWyte
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] crack pipe? Yes, I know they're claiming max hp gains. However looking at the area under the curve, it looks like it gives at least +10-15 ft lbs and +10 for hp. Since pretty much all the aftermarket exhausts only give +5 hp, I pretty much discount that, a stock exhaust will do about as well. If you have a fairly quiet exhaust (ie, stock rear muffler with track pipe) chances are you won't be hassled and forced to road emmissions test. The only places I've seen the CHP set those up are the notorious middle night street racing strips in San Diego... -josh --- Kit Wetzler <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> wrote: > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:23:37 -0700 > From: "Kit Wetzler" <kitwetzler@mindspring.com> > Subject: crack pipe? > > > Wonder who's on the crack pipe now? > > Don't worry, it's still you. ;) > > AA quotes the Max power gain, not the power gain at > max HP. There is a BIG > difference. For example, my gained about 15 hp at > 7000 rpm, but only about > 3-4 hp at max hp when I put my Dinan intake on the > first time. See the > difference? Secondly, AA is quoting the difference > of the crack pipe AND > their exhaust. > > The track pipe does significantly increase the area > under the curve. > However, with a stock exhaust, it really doesn't > make a whole lot more > power. The cats are a significant power bottleneck, > though. > > Just remember, especially those of you in Smog Check > II areas, in the > people's republic of CA... it's legal to have > roadside dynos on which they > do spot checking of emissions. Not having cats is a > $1500 fine. And, on a > load based dyno emissions test, it's REALLY obvious > that you don't have > cats. > > I'm probably going to risk it, new cats are a lot > more expensive than the > crack pipe, so I figure if I can keep the crack pipe > on the car and save the > stock cats, all will be good. Also, it allows you > to get much more accurate > a/f ratios for tuning, without welding a bung onto > the exhaust pre-cats. > > -kit > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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#9. Re: 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer - from Garrett McWilliams
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Garrett McWilliams <garrettmcw@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer I used to use Mobil 1 15W-50 in all my BMW's and have switched to 10W-30 in my M3. FWIW, the others had a general mileage range of 120k-180k under my ownership, 15W-50 every 3-4k miles year round, maybe two drivers' school events each year and a couple of autocrosses. All of them were getting a *lot* of valvetrain noise past 150k or so and one was starting to make even more ominous noises when I got rid of it. Sure there are lots of older BMW's running around with noisy valve gear, but I thought the synthetic would minimize it. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't; I dunno, but there was clearly still wear. From this discussion, 15W-50 sounds like a good weight for summer track events, but I'm sticking with 10W-30 in the winter and will see what happens. -Garrett
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#10. Track guys - interest in Front splitter? - from James Clay
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:04:49 -0400 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: Track guys - interest in Front splitter? Any interest in a front splitter for the stock E36 front bumper? This will be a carbon-fiber piece and consist of a riser and full undertray. The resulting piece is way more effective than the Motorsport lightweight splitter because of the substantial undertray and much lighter. Height off the ground will be 3-4.5", price is about $900, some minor fabrication required to install. Trying to decide if I should make more than just for our cars. James James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com Engineered BMW Performance 540.639.9648