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#1. Re: [E36M3] Re: hi flow cats? - from Steven Tom
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:47:38 -0700 From: Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: hi flow cats? I've asked evosport about this a couple of times since they are coming out with headers. It seems as though the headers would get helped out quite a bit with a higher flow downstream. They said they are looking into it about 3 months ago. steve At 04:43 PM 4/9/2003 -0600, Jake McClean wrote: >Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:30:10 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jake McClean <sin@mail.value.net> >Subject: Re: hi flow cats? > >Hmm. Has anyone ever looked into some of the "high flow" cats available >out there? They tend to come with larger inlets/outlets and most boast >significantly higher flow rates than typical cats. Anyone know if they're >worth the time/money?
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Drivetrain losses - from Steven Tom
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:52:46 -0700 From: Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Drivetrain losses So the big debate about drivetrain loss. It's almost like asking about the best BBK or best oil to use. My car bone stock dynoed at 202.8. Using a 17.3% conversion loss, I end up with 245 crank hp. Seems about right to me. Not to mention I hear that the 3.2 was under rated anyway and put out more like 250ish mark. Which seems about on par with a lot of people dynoing at 210-215 range. In the end, the difference is the important figure. With the cam kit, I went from 202.8 to 245. steve At 05:23 AM 4/10/2003 -0600, Patrick Buthmann wrote: >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:16:12 -0400 >From: "Patrick Buthmann" <patrick@teutonic.ca> >Subject: RE: [E36M3] Drivetrain losses > >Lowell, > > Yeah, it's typically a point of much heated debate (which Jim and I >have gotten into several times before, among others). > > Really, the only places driveline losses should occur are places in >which the drive angle is changing (ie, the diff). Tire slippage is >minor, if any, and if the tires were actually slipping regularly, you'd >see that in lost power over the course of the entire dyno plot. > You may get some driveline losses through the transmission (since >you're using multiple gearsets, with some backlash allowed), but this is >generally sub 1%. Same thing applies to driveshafts, CV joints, axles >etc....losses are minimal (if any) through them all. > > Another problem with dyno tests is that operators typically test a >car in 3rd gear (1.67:1), rather than a more accurate 5th gear (1:1). >By testing in 5th gear, you eliminate any change in the moment arm (part >of the torque calculation) and you get a more accurate dyno plot. > > There are a number of independent shops using some of the newer >hub/bearing based dynos (as opposed to roller dynos) as engine dynos, >with just a blank frame (no transmission), and a 1:1 rear diff to hook >up to. Works pretty well, and they have been using 8-10% as their >driveline loss numbers as well. These units also eliminate any concern >about tire slippage (which I've yet to see) and the more noticeable >problem of a 3500 lb roller not being calibrated for cars other than >3500 lbs... > > Remember, Jim makes his money from showing bigger HP gains (per his >chips and Shark Injector), so take some of that information with a grain >of salt. HP sells, and I can't fault Jim for his position, regardless >of it's accuracy. 17.3% driveline losses on a 240 HP car would result >in sub 200 rear wheel HP in an E36 M3, and I don't believe anyone here >is seeing a number like that. No E36 M3 (stock) that I've seen or >tested has come in at anything below 215 rwhp (give or take a HP here or >there), and 215-220 rwhp is the typical range. > > 17.3% sounds nice for the owner when their car dyno's at 220+ rwhp >stock, but do you think BMW really left 30 flywheel HP off their sales >brochures? > > For an interesting read on some dyno inaccuracies... >http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm >Pat
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#3. Z3 Plate location - from Johnny Lee
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:55:12 -0400 From: Johnny Lee <arionatof@comcast.net> Subject: Z3 Plate location This is probably going to be obvious once I get to do it but I am asking just in case. Does the Z3 reinforcement plates go inside the trunk or outside... Thanks, Johnny 1998 M3/4
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Z3 Plate location - from Andrej Dolenc
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:59:13 -0400 From: Andrej Dolenc <adolenc@erols.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Z3 Plate location Johnny Lee writes: > This is probably going to be obvious once I get to do it but I am asking > just in case. Does the Z3 reinforcement plates go inside the trunk or > outside... > Thanks, Goes inside the trunk. Think of it as a giant washer that sits on top of the sheet metal, going between the sheet metal and the nuts that hold the rear shock mount to the sheet metal. Andrej '97 M3
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from DocWyte
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:01:12 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? I'm hoping to see more since I'm OBD1... -josh --- Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:40:21 -0700 > From: Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a > 24lb injector buy? > > Here's an interesting link to Bimmerforums, where > someone did a before and > after on a track pipe. > > http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89528 > > At 01:13 PM 4/9/2003 -0600, DocWyte wrote: > >Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:10:53 -0700 (PDT) > >From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> > >Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a > 24lb injector buy? > > > >So let's see these dynos of cams that add so much > hp! > > > >Every dyno I've seen (and they posted before and > after > >cams dynos, using the same dyno) showed very > >lackluster gains considering the $$ investment. > I'm > >not kidding, several people dynoed and posted > sheets > >showing +10whp and +10 ft lbs of torque. > > > >Seems to me that's not that much power and can > easily > >be obtained by a well engineered track pipe/exhaust > >system. However, I do plan on dynoing the track > pipe > >before and after and if it doesn't add anything, it > >won't be staying on the car. > > > >I am skeptical of the gains shown on AA's site and > >have been waiting to see dyno's from all the people > >who've bought them. I kind of stumbled into a deal > I > >couldn't refuse for one, so I bought it before > seeing > >independent results. > > > >-josh > > > > > >--- mike <95m3ltw@charter.net> wrote: > > > Well, > > > > > > I have seen several track pipes, custom exhausts > > > dynoed. A simple track > > > pipe replacing the cats is not going to give you > > > those numbers or give you > > > any numbers like cams. And, their numbers on > cams > > > are wrong too. They > > > actually give more, haha. > > > > > > But dont take my word for it, buy it and test > it. > > > Maybe they have > > > discovered a flux capacity for a track pipe or > > > something. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > >===== > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, > forms, and more > >http://tax.yahoo.com > > > > > >************************************************* > >Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > >Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > >Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > >BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > >Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > > >DIGEST INFORMATION: > >http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > >************************************************* > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from Steven Tom
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:11:12 -0700 From: Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? I agree. I think you should see more hp. Something that's interesting is the loss in hp. AA's graph's are not as dramatic as the one on Bimmerforums. steve At 10:01 AM 4/10/2003 -0700, DocWyte wrote: >I'm hoping to see more since I'm OBD1... > >-josh > > >--- Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> wrote: > > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:40:21 -0700 > > From: Steven Tom <stom@qualcomm.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Who wants to go in on a > > 24lb injector buy? > > > > Here's an interesting link to Bimmerforums, where > > someone did a before and > > after on a track pipe. > > > > >http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89528 > >
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#7. Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:27:15 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Who wants to go in on a 24lb injector buy? > Here's an interesting link to Bimmerforums, where someone did a before and > after on a track pipe. > http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89528 Well, this is a 3.2l motor and I don't believe their cats are quite as restrictive as the cats on 3.0l motors, but, those plots only show a max gain of 2 rwhp and 5 rwtq, giving up some down low to make some up high, not too impressive IMO. I would say that is a reasonable track addition for racers who spend more time at high rpms. On the street, probably about a wash performance wise and definitely not worth it for legality reasons. Anyone know of a legitimate third party dyno with a 3.0l motor? Regards, Rich
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#8. track pipe gains or dyno-foolery? (was Re: 24lb injectors or something) - from Zack Steinkamp
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Zack Steinkamp <edsarkiss@yahoo.com> Subject: track pipe gains or dyno-foolery? (was Re: 24lb injectors or something) in looking at the graph linked to below, it seems odd that at the highest revs, the "knee" then the big power drop is in a different place on the red (old) and blue (new) plots. i understand that the track pipe would help the motor exhale at higher revs, but to me it looks like the blue line has ben transposed to the right by 100-200 revs, possibly to exagerate the high-rpm gain? wouldn't the rev limiter kick in at the same place, regardless of the exhaust system? i've taken the liberty of shifting the "post crack" dyno run line back so the endpoints match the original run. images here ... original plot: http://nobot.2y.net/m3/dyno_orig.jpg shifted back: http://nobot.2y.net/m3/dyno_shifted.jpg (if you load one then the other in your browser, you can flip quickly between them with the 'Back' and 'Forward' buttons) am i the one on the crack pipe? zs > > > Here's an interesting link to Bimmerforums, > where > > > someone did a before and > > > after on a track pipe. > >http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89528 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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#9. Re: [E36M3] 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? - from twisty M3
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:01:59 -0700 From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? For what it's worth, I've used the old factory 5w40 formula, the newer 5w30, Mobil 1 15w50, Redline 10w40, Mobil 1 5w30 and currently Castrol Syntec 10w40. My oil usage went down a bit with the 15w50, but the motor was also a bit slower to react to throttle blips. It burned more with the lesser weights, but the Redline 10w40 was a bit pricey and hard to find locally. I just did some research a couple of weeks ago and learned that Castrol had a 10w40, which seems to fall right in between the weights of the Mobil 1 forumlas I was using, so that's what's in the car now. It's only been in for 2 weeks, but the motor behaved nicely at Buttonwillow last weekend, and oil burning doesn't seem to be any more than normal. I'll use this for the next couple of changes to see how it really is. Mobil 1 0w40 (availabe at AutoZone, where I got the Castrol Syntec) was up on the top of my list as well. Jonathan L. >From: Msebmwman@aol.com >Reply-To: Msebmwman@aol.com >To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> >Subject: [E36M3] 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:03:48 -0600 > >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:57:35 EDT >From: Msebmwman@aol.com >Subject: 15W50 Mobil 1 for summer: anyone use this? > >All; > >Anyone here use the Mobil 1 15W50 product for summer driving or cars that >may >spend some time on the track in summer? Curious if there are any issues >with >this heavier weight product. I usually use 10W30 Mobil 1 in my M3 but >summer >track days can be hot here in Southern California. > >Thanks, >Marc >95M3 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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#10. More thoughts on '03 330i vw '95 M3 - from DocWyte
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:35:42 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: More thoughts on '03 330i vw '95 M3 Well, got my M3 back from the dealer last night. In driving it home and today, I've come to some more conclusions about the '03 330i. It was very quiet. No wind noise, and obviously no intake or exhaust noise. It's torque curve is f_l_a_t!! My M3 feels much more peaky. My M3 also feels slow now in comparison. :-( Not sure if that's really the case, but the 330i certainly seemed to get up and haul quicker than my car. Hmm... -josh ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com