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#1. Re: [E36M3] Best Handling Car- Depends... - from Robert Chay
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:18:29 -0400 From: Robert Chay <rchay@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Best Handling Car- Depends... I'm gonna have to disagree with most of this. You also have to take into consideration that suspension setups and tires have a huge effect on handling. When I bought my M3 4 yrs ago, I moved to CA shortly after and have been to many DE's on the west coast. The car was great at the track and at auto-x's. I also went on many famous (infamous?) M3 runs through the various canyon roads of Southern California. On one particular run up Hwy 2 (Angeles Crest), there was a medium speed right hand sweeper. I was falling behind so I decided to pick up the pace a bit and went into the turn a bit hot. I didn't back off because I thought I'd spin so I stayed on the gas and the back end started sliding. With some steering correction and not letting off the gas, I was able to recover and keep going. It was a beautiful slide (if I do say so myself) but kinda stupid since there was a 150' drop to my right and a cliff wall on the left. I slowed down but kept up with the group the rest of the day. I'm much more conservative when it rains no matter how good my tires are in the rain. The few times that I've broken loose the rear of the car, it was fairly easy to recover from. I did a San Diego auto-x a few yrs ago where it rained heavily. I spun on every other run not because I couldn't handle the car but to test the limits. I did a lot of controlled power slides around the course and even hit a few cones but it gave me a better sense of how the car handles in the wet. Overall, I think the M3 is a well balanced street car. From my limited experience, the newer Porsches (996's) handle much more like the M3 with very similar handling characteristics. I don't have superhuman reflexes and I'm sure there are many, many other drivers on this list that are much faster than I am. I think the problem with the M3, if any, is the fact that it will let you get much closer to the edge of the performance envelope than most other cars and at that point, you really do need better car control skills to keep the car under control. -Bobby ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Rico" <juan_rico@captionsinc.com> > > > For all of you who disagree with me, let me make a little clarification. > My post was in reference to street driving, when driving at slower speeds > and just having fun around corners and letting the tail hang out-- although > not only limited to these acts of hooliganism. I wasn't referring to the > track. I know it's not the safest thing to do on the street, but who hasn't > done this on the street at some point or on a solitary canyon road when > nobody is around? You know all those shots you see in car magazines of road > testers pulling nice slides and drifts on roads? Driving like this is just > not feasible in an M3 unless you are a pro. And even then... > In other cars it's much easier. Is this not a handling issue? > > What I don't like about the M3, and I still firmly believe this, is its > uncertainty which makes it impossible to drive rally style (to put an > extreme example for illustrative and argumentative albeit dramatic > purposes). Also, even driving normally, notice how a lot of people who have > crashed their M3's in the rain will tell you that one moment they were > driving, and all of a sudden because of a change in pavement, or an awkward > camber change, etc. the car started to rotate and was impossible to catch, > corrections or no corrections at the steering wheel. A lot of people have > crashed their M3's this way. When the rainy season comes around, M3's are > body shop queens. The M3 is indeed a very difficult car to spin on the > street in dry conditions, unless you're really driving like a moron. But if > it starts spinning (something that occurs with far more frequency in the > rain) many drivers can only sit and pray... I think it was a British > magazine (EVO, CAR, BMW?) that said once the M3 goes, hold on to dear life, > or something to that effect as a stain in the car's otherwise excellent > review. > > Apparently, at higher speeds on a track it's a different story, > but I haven't been there. I'm not disputing that. Maybe you are all one step > away from being professional drivers... When I do my first driving school > I'll let you know. Either way, the M3 is a street car first and then maybe a > track car. > > Juan. > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#2. Windows won't close! - from eevans@planetc.com
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:55:03 -0400 From: eevans@planetc.com Subject: Windows won't close! Gruppe, Speaking of window problems lately. All of a sudden I have 3 E36 cars that have developed the partial roll up disease. On rare occasions they roll up w/o a hiccup, but out of 10 tries I bet it stops prematurely 8 out of 10. I've tried the hold down the button for 10 seconds method and it hasn't solved or improved the problem. My daughter's '93 318 does it, but she has 135K miles so that's not a huge surprise, but my 65K mile '95 M3 does it, my '97 328is.....you get the idea. Since it's mainly the driver's side window I guessing the parts are just worn out, but why now? I see only one fix and that's a new window motor. I've never had this happen on any other of my BMWs w/ electric windows until now and I've owned a lot of Bimmers. Is this a seasonal thing? Is the East TN pollen so thick on the windows that it trips the limiter ;-). All I know is that it's very aggravating. I want my "one touch" back! Evan Evans President Smoky Mountain BMW CCA
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Best Handling Car- Depends... - from DocWyte
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:12:34 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Best Handling Car- Depends... You're kidding, right? You think having the car stay planted to the road and handle properly is a handling issue? If you want to do tail out slides, get a mustang. I'm perfectly content with the rear end of my M3 staying where I want it and adding it's portion of grip to the equation. As far as M3's being winter body shop queens, I geuss my car is the exception. Without ASC or any computer traction controls, it makes it through the New England snowy winter just fine with a set of snow tires. -josh -snip- You know all those shots you see > in car magazines of road > testers pulling nice slides and drifts on roads? > Driving like this is just > not feasible in an M3 unless you are a pro. And even > then... > In other cars it's much easier. Is this not a > handling issue? > ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com
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#4. RE: soft brakes - from kim.burgess@att.net
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 03:26:14 +0000 From: kim.burgess@att.net Subject: RE: soft brakes Tom wrote: "For those of you with this problem, do the following. Park the car, push the pedal down, release, and push down again. How does the pedal feel on the second stroke? Normal? Leave the car for 4 hours, press the pedal ONCE, how does the pedal stroke feel? Normal? Roll the car at least so the tires rotate a few turns and stop the motion WITHOUT using the brakes. IE, push it on a level surface, and stop it by hand. Press the pedal ONCE, how does the pedal stroke feel? Abnormal? Reply back after the above tests are done. I am interested to hear/read the results." Tom Melton Tried the above and failed _all_ tests. I pressure bled them (Motive pump-up pressure bleeder that has opening/valve of pump piston below surface of one liter of Super Blue). I am shock and amaized that three-to-four verrry small bubbles in the front calipers made for such mushy pedal feel. Ordinarly I go for tiny-tiny bubbles in my liquid but not here! KLBurgess
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#5. Sears Point race (was: [E36M3] Freaked out windows) - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:27:36 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> Subject: Sears Point race (was: [E36M3] Freaked out windows) At 02:06 PM 4/21/03, alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: >jon@maximumpc.com (Jon Phillips) wrote: > > > > That's right, the club race was this weekend! Results? Highlights? > >Let me make a wile guess - everyone who ran won their class ;-) > >alex f Close :-) We had 16 entrants on Sat, 13 on Sunday (IIRC). A couple of rookies and a couple of So Cal folks made the drive up. Scott Smith was "in another time zone" to quote Steve Olsen, running consistently sub 1:50 times (1:46-1:47, IIRC). Ralph Warren was doing well on Toyo street tires as he prepped for running some Speed WC events. Xavier McClure had his new-to-him E36 325is there (moving up from his E30 325 :-)). I ran on a rented set of Hoosiers for the first time on the car, and dropped 4 seconds from my time on RA-1s (1:58.3) - finished 2nd in class to Gil Caravantes in a JP E30 M3, ahead of Xavier and Brian G (rookie). Sunday was better and worse at the same time. The day was colder, and my unfamiliarity with the Hoosiers cost me. Also, the Sun format was qual/race/race, which never seems to work for me (I need a practice session). I gave back the 4 seconds to field, qualifying 4th in class. Had a great race with Brian G and Xavier, especially having a good view as Xavier & Brian diced in race #1. Xavier showed his experience by doing a great job keeping me behind him in both races, even though I had the faster car especially toward the end of the races (actually I was doing a poor job of being able to pass him :-)). But that was the first time in quite a while that I had someone to really "race" with, and I enjoyed it. There were a couple of incidents - one 2-car and a single car incident at Turn 10 (minimal damage and able to race on Sunday - lucky!). All in all, a good weekend but also showed me that there's still a h*ll of a lot still for me to learn. But I like the Hoosiers :-) Jim Bassett
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Sway Bar Reinforcement - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:31:53 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <jimbassett@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Sway Bar Reinforcement At 03:16 PM 4/21/03, Dorffer, Rich wrote: >What is everyone recommending for beefing up their sway bar attachment >points? I think Turner has some and Dinan too. Any others? Any >recommendations as to what to purchase and best method of reinforcement? >Write-ups or tips? I've put the Turner ones on both cars. Had my mechanic install them. They include instructions. Seem to work just fine. Jim Bassett
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#7. Best Handling Car - from Grant Fairweather
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:13:25 -0700 From: "Grant Fairweather" <Grantf1@calcon.net> Subject: Best Handling Car Interesting....I went from a Prelude Si to the M3 too! Grant 98 M3/4 >Main reason why I moved from the Prelude SH to the M3 :) >Johnny >1998 M3/4 >>I've seen references to a magazine article in which the E36 M3=20 >>was winner of a best-handling car contest. >>Bob Fluharty
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#8. Sway Bar Reinforcement - from karamatm@optonline.net
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:14:44 -0400 From: "karamatm@optonline.net" <karamatm@optonline.net> Subject: Sway Bar Reinforcement Rich, Hello.. I have not upgraded the sway bars on my e36, but I have done it on my IX. The ST bar that I bought had some reinforcement tabs that were supposed to be bolted to support the stock connection points. My mechanic has been a club racer for many years, and promptly threw out the tabs.. His logic is that the tabs only strengthen the body of the connection point, they do not strengthen the actual connection to the car. The only way to properly do this is to weld extra material to the entire factory mounting point. another opinion. Good luck. Mo -------------------- 2 -------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:07:42 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Sway Bar Reinforcement I know this is discussed with some regularity (at least we haven't discussed it in the past few digests like a couple of recent questions) but I figured I would bring it up again. What is everyone recommending for beefing up their sway bar attachment points? I think Turner has some and Dinan too. Any others? Any recommendations as to what to purchase and best method of reinforcement? Write-ups or tips? Thanks in advance. Regards, Rich 95 M3 - UUC Anti-Sway Bars -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .
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#9. RE: Sway Bar Reinforcement - from Butch Berney
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:24:27 -0700 From: "Butch Berney" <butchberney@attbi.com> Subject: RE: Sway Bar Reinforcement I made a "Turner-esque" reinforcement for the M3 rear suspension carrier that I recently installed in my car. http://home.attbi.com/~meeboo8/bernman/article/pictures/reinforcement.jp g I used to have a picture of the Ground Control reinforcement, but that link is dead. GC uses a piece of what looks like 1" x 1/8" flat stock and weld it roughly in the same place as is shown in my picture. It is much simpler, but probably just as effective. Pretty much any decent muffler shop can weld this for you. I really find it hard to believe that a BMW engineer approved the "ear" design for the sway bar mount. It really is on the edge of sufficiency even with stock sway bars. Good luck! Butch -------------------- 2 -------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:07:42 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Sway Bar Reinforcement I know this is discussed with some regularity (at least we haven't discussed it in the past few digests like a couple of recent questions) but I figured I would bring it up again. What is everyone recommending for beefing up their sway bar attachment points? I think Turner has some and Dinan too. Any others? Any recommendations as to what to purchase and best method of reinforcement? Write-ups or tips? Thanks in advance. Regards, Rich 95 M3 - UUC Anti-Sway Bars
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#10. Re: [E36M3] battery - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:30:51 EDT From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] battery samrl@triad.rr.com writes: > Well, after nearly 9 years my stock battery died on me today > build date of 6/94 and 100,000 miles and went kablooey in the grocery store > > parking lot, in front of an ATM machine :) > Sam, WOW!! I'm bet money that you have the world's longest living M3 battery. 9 years/100,000 miles! Incredible! You got your money's worth out it. ;-) Lowell Seaton '95 M3 - 3 batteries in 7 years/66,000 miles BMW CCA #131505