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#1. RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? - from DocWyte
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:54:12 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? Chester, the Schroth harnesses are DOT legal, so they're designed to be used on the street with the stock seats. You shouldn't have any safety issues with the harnesses. Most comments made about the harnesses regard rolling the car over. -josh --- Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:37:19 -0700 (PDT) > From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & > 4-pt harnesses? > > Would this be a reason why people say harnesses such > as a 4 point are okay to > use without a rollbar? > > Chester > who has Schroth 4 pt harnesses on the way... > > > > Yes, racing seats would be best, ESPECIALLY if > you use > > > your car on the street. Vader's _BREAK_ in a > hard rear > > > impact, actually on other not so hard impacts as > well. > > > I have posted pics of my Vader's breaking in a > street > > > accident before and can be seen at: > > > > > > > http://www4.ncsu.edu/~ctsalter/e36_m3_yellow_damage/interior_driver_seat.j > > > pg > > > > > > I have seen others break as well in track > related > > > impacts. They are just not strong enough. > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > ===== > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
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#2. RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? - from Chester Wong
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:57:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? Yep...and that's the argument where a 3 point allows people to slide down and the 4 points don't. Now in the event of a rollover, the stock seats break and well, the issue is moot, no? Just because the harnesses are DOT legal doesn't mean anything. I could imagine a scenario where someone puts in race seats, harnesses and no rollbar....which might be more dangerous than using the harnesses with the stock seats. Chester --- DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > Chester, the Schroth harnesses are DOT legal, so > they're designed to be used on the street with the > stock seats. You shouldn't have any safety issues > with the harnesses. Most comments made about the > harnesses regard rolling the car over. =====
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#3. RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? - from DocWyte
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:00:58 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? Hmm, I think to get the DOT approval they test the harnesses with stock seats in safety crashes. I could be wrong about this, but I doubt they'd give out the DOT approval if the harnesses caused more injuries to passengers than the stock configuration. -josh --- Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > Yep...and that's the argument where a 3 point allows > people to slide down and > the 4 points don't. Now in the event of a rollover, > the stock seats break and > well, the issue is moot, no? Just because the > harnesses are DOT legal doesn't > mean anything. I could imagine a scenario where > someone puts in race seats, > harnesses and no rollbar....which might be more > dangerous than using the > harnesses with the stock seats. > > Chester > > --- DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Chester, the Schroth harnesses are DOT legal, so > > they're designed to be used on the street with the > > stock seats. You shouldn't have any safety issues > > with the harnesses. Most comments made about the > > harnesses regard rolling the car over. > > > ===== > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
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#4. RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? - from Chester Wong
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? Perhaps, but that would mean they test the harness configuration with each and every car??!?! Whose to say that an M3 seat is weaker or stronger than one found in a P car? I could certainly understand DOT approval for the stock seatbelts because those will be used for the car intended for. But DOT approval aside, I think the fact that the seat collapses is one arguing point supporting the safety of the Schroth 4 point in our cars. Chester --- DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hmm, I think to get the DOT approval they test the > harnesses with stock seats in safety crashes. I could > be wrong about this, but I doubt they'd give out the > DOT approval if the harnesses caused more injuries to > passengers than the stock configuration. =====
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#5. RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? - from DocWyte
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:09:59 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? Good point. Maybe they extrapolate the results after crashing a few cars? I dunno, I have to call Schroth USA today anyways, I'll ask them about it. -josh --- Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > Perhaps, but that would mean they test the harness > configuration with each and > every car??!?! Whose to say that an M3 seat is > weaker or stronger than one > found in a P car? I could certainly understand DOT > approval for the stock > seatbelts because those will be used for the car > intended for. > > But DOT approval aside, I think the fact that the > seat collapses is one arguing > point supporting the safety of the Schroth 4 point > in our cars. > > Chester > > --- DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Hmm, I think to get the DOT approval they test the > > harnesses with stock seats in safety crashes. I > could > > be wrong about this, but I doubt they'd give out > the > > DOT approval if the harnesses caused more injuries > to > > passengers than the stock configuration. > > > ===== > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
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#6. Re: NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar &4-pt harnesses? - from KLchmn@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:15:26 EDT From: KLchmn@aol.com Subject: Re: NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar &4-pt harnesses? Chester asks: > Would this be a reason why people say harnesses such as a 4 point are okay > to > use without a rollbar? > > Chester > who has Schroth 4 pt harnesses on the way... > The Schroth has a feature on the inside shoulder of each belt in the 4-pt clip in/clip out system. Joe Marko of HMS explained this at the BMW CCA Driving Events conference this year. Apparently, it allows some movement so you aren't crushed like a bug during a rollover. Also, the stock seats will give quite a bit more than a racing shell (a good one, that is). Joe recommended never running a racing shell w/o a roll bar/cage due to the rigidity of the racing seat. The sled tests of seatbelts he showed us were truly eye opening! Don't want to go through those hits! Kirk Lachman Sin City Chapter '95 M3 #21 I-stock '02 M3 (wife's) w/ Scroth 4 pt. harnesses <--- Thanks Josh!
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#7. Odd Emails - from Brad Ahrens
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:33:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Ahrens <txsaggie97@yahoo.com> Subject: Odd Emails I've gotten them as well. They are posing to be a list email but if you look at the email extensions it is like E36M3@verizon and @mp3. The file attached is a script. No way do you want to open it. I'm not getting a virus detection but I am using Yahoo. I've opened the email but not downloaded the script. Would be interesting to download it safely and open it in a dos editor and see what it does... I've just been blocking and reporting them to the isp. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
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#8. Virus Alert - from Jeff Kumler
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:38:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Kumler <jdkumler@yahoo.com> Subject: Virus Alert FYI: Some of you have already asked about strange emails that appear to be from the list. YES they are viruses. It is the latest Bugbear virus that is very prominent right now. Viruses like these are very easy to spot based on the SCR extension they have. BE CAREFUL IF YOU HAVE AUTO PREVIEW TURNED ON IN MS PRODUCTS. There is a patch available, but you should turn off auto-preview for better safety. Here is some info on it... Jeff Security Awareness Note (6/05/03): ** Win32.Bugbear Worm is back! ** CIAC has received reports on the new Bugbear.B worm (aka: PD_BUGBEAR.B (Trend), W32/Bugbear.b@MM (McAfee), W32.Kijmo, W32.Shamur, Win32.Bugbear.B (CA)). Several anti-virus vendors have upgraded their assessments on this worm from Low to Moderate or High. This is a mass-mailing worm that also attempts to spread through network shares. Those running Microsoft Internet Explorer versions 5.5 and 5.01 that have not been patched according to the Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-020 are vulnerable to auto-execute the worm by simply reading or previewing an infected e-mail message. The CIAC Bulletin "L-066: Internet Explorer MIME Header Vulnerability" has a link to MS01-020. The affected systems are: Windows 95/98/NT/2000/XP/ME. Sites should also check their anti-virus vendor's web sites for downloading the latest version of their file definitions to detect incoming e-mails that are infected with this version of the Bugbear worm. (6/05/03 - 11:45am PST)
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#9. V*rus from e36m3@teamhobbit.com - from Luis Rueda
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:01:50 -0400 From: "Luis Rueda" <Luis_Rueda@Interliant.com> Subject: V*rus from e36m3@teamhobbit.com For the last couple of days, I've been getting a virus sent from this address (see below), has anybody else gotten this? From: E36M3 <e36m3@teamhobbit.com> Subject: [E36M3] E36M3 #2572 Virus: W32/Bugbear.b@MM Cheers, Luis
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Re: NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar &4-pt harnesses? - from M-Power
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:03:10 -0500 From: "M-Power" <M-Power@austin.rr.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar &4-pt harnesses? I agree with Kirk. The discussion and videos from Joe Marko were eye opening. The feature that Joe was talking about is Schroth's anti-submarine feature. Also note that during rollover accidents, most of the injuries and deaths are caused by people's heads hitting the b-pillar. A 4-point harness helps to prevent that since you don't have the lateral movement of a 3-point. Also, Joe stated that he did not recommend using a rollbar with stock seats. Jim Hagerman Tejas Chapter BMWCCA -----Original Message----- From: KLchmn@aol.com [mailto:KLchmn@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 09:23 To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Re: NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar &4-pt harnesses? Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:15:26 EDT From: KLchmn@aol.com Subject: Re: NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar &4-pt harnesses? The Schroth has a feature on the inside shoulder of each belt in the 4-pt clip in/clip out system. Joe Marko of HMS explained this at the BMW CCA Driving Events conference this year. Apparently, it allows some movement so you aren't crushed like a bug during a rollover. Also, the stock seats will give quite a bit more than a racing shell (a good one, that is). Joe recommended never running a racing shell w/o a roll bar/cage due to the rigidity of the racing seat. The sled tests of seatbelts he showed us were truly eye opening! Don't want to go through those hits! Kirk Lachman Sin City Chapter '95 M3 #21 I-stock '02 M3 (wife's) w/ Scroth 4 pt. harnesses <--- Thanks Josh! ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#11. Re: [E36M3] radiator options - from Bradley J. Otoupalik
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Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:29:33 -0700 From: "Bradley J. Otoupalik" <otoupalik@pobox.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] radiator options We sell the PWR one for $595 - All Alum., Very nice, direct fit. Also 10% off for club racers and CCA members. Thanks Brad At 12:33 PM 6/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Subject: Re: [E36M3] radiator options > > >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:25:17 -0700 (PDT) >From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [E36M3] radiator options > >Hmmm....I believe I spent $170 for everything including hoses, aluminum >thermostat housing, etc for my replacement radiator. Also, $200 will not >nearly be half of the aluminum models.....won't they go for $600+? > >Chester > >--- Jeremy Warfield <jww95_list@verizon.net> wrote: > > Well here's what I'm thinking... The m3 just turned 83k, and I want to > > replace the radiator as preventative maintenance, but I'm not all that >keen > > on throwing $200 at another plastic neck'd bmw model. Especially when >that > > money could cover as much as half the cost of a nice aluminum unit. Bradley J. Otoupalik
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#12. RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? - from Chris Salter
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:03:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Salter <errsomeone@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? Chester, Um, not to quote a very common saying, but, the safety devices are ment to work as a system. If one is used without another, then it is possible for bad things to occur. In this case of using only harnesses without a roll bar, if something were to happen and the seat break, you could conceivably get tangled in your own harnesses. Personally, I do not wear harnesses w/o a roll bar being installed, and advise those driving as to why. As for others, the common line follows similar to: (1) your more likely to have a hard front impact than a roll, so you are better protected with the harnesses OR (2) the extra stability that you are given is an aid no matter what since you spend less time focusing on sliding around, you can be fore focused on driving the car. Both very valid thoughts. This gets more into a personal opinion much beyond the basic safety stand point. Not everyone has the ability to build a dedicated track car, but once you have committed to doing enough schools to make advanced groups there is a great deal of safety that needs to be considered. Also of equal importance is how these safety systems work together. Heres to hoping that nothing as described ever happens... Good Luck - Chris Salter --- Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:37:19 -0700 (PDT) > From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & > 4-pt harnesses? > > Would this be a reason why people say harnesses such > as a 4 point are okay to > use without a rollbar? > > Chester > who has Schroth 4 pt harnesses on the way... > > > > Yes, racing seats would be best, ESPECIALLY if > you use > > > your car on the street. Vader's _BREAK_ in a > hard rear > > > impact, actually on other not so hard impacts as > well. > > > I have posted pics of my Vader's breaking in a > street > > > accident before and can be seen at: > > > > > > > http://www4.ncsu.edu/~ctsalter/e36_m3_yellow_damage/interior_driver_seat.j > > > pg > > > > > > I have seen others break as well in track > related > > > impacts. They are just not strong enough. > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > ===== > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
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#13. RE: [E36M3] radiator options - from Bradley J. Otoupalik
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Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:15:19 -0700 From: "Bradley J. Otoupalik" <otoupalik@pobox.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] radiator options This makes sense UNTIL it breaks at the wrong time and totals your car and/or your buddy's car behind you! (happened to us). Thanks Brad At 03:13 PM 6/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:34:16 -0400 >From: "Jeremy Warfield" <jww95_list@verizon.net> >Subject: RE: [E36M3] radiator options > >You know I think that is the best logic... I'm sitting here complaining >about the plastic outlets, and using that as the basis for looking at the >aftermarket stuff, when in reality, the plastic one has served it's function >just fine over the past 8 years. And it's not like I'm racing the car or >even participating in a lot of track days... Bradley J. Otoupalik
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#14. RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? - from Chris Salter
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:24:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Salter <errsomeone@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & 4-pt harnesses? Josh, I don't believe DOT tests are any different than manufactures tests, if not less difficult. After my accident I was curious as to why the seat failed, asked around was told that most all manufactures (but a coupe do, though not BMW) do not test their cars in impacts that would facilitate a seat breaking, as happened in my case. However, seeing others break in other circumstances makes me wonder if this was ever actually seen in BMW's tests. As for Schroth's ASM feature... from what I understand, this takes a very hard front impact to trigger the break away and thus decreasing the force put upon your body in the impact, etc etc. This feature would do very little in a roll over but keep you trapped in the up right position. Assuming the roll over would not be caused by the front impact. I would be very intrested to hear exactly how the DOT tests harnesses, and more into how BMW goes about testing the cars as well. Good Luck, -Chris Salter --- DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:09:59 -0700 (PDT) > From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] NE1 using Vaders w/rollbar & > 4-pt harnesses? > > Good point. Maybe they extrapolate the results > after > crashing a few cars? I dunno, I have to call > Schroth > USA today anyways, I'll ask them about it. > > -josh > > > --- Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Perhaps, but that would mean they test the harness > > configuration with each and > > every car??!?! Whose to say that an M3 seat is > > weaker or stronger than one > > found in a P car? I could certainly understand > DOT > > approval for the stock > > seatbelts because those will be used for the car > > intended for. > > > > But DOT approval aside, I think the fact that the > > seat collapses is one arguing > > point supporting the safety of the Schroth 4 point > > in our cars. > > > > Chester > > > > --- DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Hmm, I think to get the DOT approval they test > the > > > harnesses with stock seats in safety crashes. I > > could > > > be wrong about this, but I doubt they'd give out > > the > > > DOT approval if the harnesses caused more > injuries > > to > > > passengers than the stock configuration. > > > > > > ===== > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to > Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com
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#15. FS Gr N Suspension, Euro headers, exhausts, X5 4.4i - from m3ltw@msn.com
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:43:14 -0700 From: m3ltw@msn.com Subject: FS Gr N Suspension, Euro headers, exhausts, X5 4.4i FS: BMW Groupe N suspension for an E36. Adjustable coilover shocks. = Additional spring perches to make it ITS legal (but removable). Was = originally installed on my LTW, but has been on my ITS car. =20 Turner camber plates. Make me an offer, and it's all yours! FS: BMW Euro headers for 3.0 L motor w/ Borla straight pipes to PTG = built racing muffler. This setup, while powerful, allows an ITS race = car to meet Laguna Seca's 92dB limit! Headers have been Jet Coated, and = will not rust (or do anything but look shiny). $700 or best offer. FS: UUC exhaust. Never used. Should fit E36 M3 or 325. $200 or Best offer. FS: 2001 X5 4.4i, Topaz Blue w/ Grey leather. Perfect condition = California car. Still under BMW 4/50,000 warranty. Options: -Activity Package (cold weather: heated fr seats, headlamp washer system rain sensing wipers, ski bag) -Power Glass Moonroof -Dark wood trim -Xenon headlights -High Level On-Board Computer -AM/FM CD Player -BMW towing package (dealer installed at time of purchase). Asking $38,000. Contact me privately for any item, located in the SF Bay area. Shipping = extra Dan Snyder 408-395-5652 m3ltw@msn.com