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#1. RE: [E36M3] ABS II: Disabling ABS on the track... - from Patrick Buthmann
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:08:25 -0400 From: "Patrick Buthmann" <patrick@teutonic.ca> Subject: RE: [E36M3] ABS II: Disabling ABS on the track... Michael, I absolutely disagree with you. Apparently you've never managed to lock up the brakes on an ABS equipped car, but I can do it in both my truck (99 F-250), and my race car ('94 325is). Benefits of growing up in Canada; on snow and ice, I can lock up either vehicle relatively easily. And again, once ALL FOUR WHEELS are locked up, ABS no longer applies. This is especially true when sliding sideways, as if there is little to no forward motion in the wheels, ABS breaks down. Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:10:36 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <95m3ltw@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] ABS II: Disabling ABS on the track... First, how would you ever LOCK the wheels when ABS is present? they wont. If you hit anything slick, mud, snow, ice, wet grass etc, ABS greatly increases your braking distances vs 4 locked wheels that otherwise might be building debri in front of the wheels creating more friction and/or digging into the material resulting in higher friction. >Once all four wheels are > travelling at the same speed, the ABS computer will assume all is > well, and it's no longer part of the equation. The problem comes when > someone figures they can "save it", and takes their foot off the > brake. Then ABS becomes part of the equation again. I take it you have never been behind someone that goes off track, spinning and then zig zags in front of you in the strangest movements ever seen in a car. A spinning car is much safer with all 4 wheels locked and spinning in a straight direction vs a car that is locking, unlocking etc, going all over the track. Also in cases of over cooking a corner, rear end starts sliding, too late to correct it, both feet in with 4 wheel lockup can save the car causing it to slide/spin to the outside of the corner where most tracks have runoff. On the other hand, slam on brakes with a ABS car in that same situation, you are most likely going to hook it into the inside wall. I see a majority of students wreck in this manner. A little cocky of you to presume I've never seen anyone spin off in front of me at the track. Lemme see, Pro Track at Shannonville, a guy in an E36 M3 spun right in front of me (literally, with inches between us); turn 2 at Mosport (more times than I care to count); turn 1 at Cayuga (again, too many times to count). Again, once the car is spinning, ABS is irrelevant. For example, the guy in the E36 M3 who spun right in front of me at SMP. His car started spinning (banked left hand turn) CCW, driver put both feet in, and the car continued it's spin CCW, and slid off the track in the same path it was travelling. Nice and easy for me to drive around. Often drivers want to blame ABS for them not spinning in a straight line, but more often than not, it's them still trying to save the car, rather than committing to BFI, and coming to a complete stop. Again, once you're going sideways, ABS is irrelevant. If my car is already 30-40 degrees off-angle and sliding, going BFI isn't going to make ABS want to straighten the car out (maybe DSC might, but we're talking pure ABS here). Going BFI at that point is simply going to have my car spin in the direction it's currently travelling. Been there, done that, in my car. A lot of drivers don't fully commit to both feet in, and when they *think* they've regained control of the car, take their foot off the brake and clutch. Suddenly, the car has power again, and the wheels have forward motion (in addition to the kinetic energy the car still possesses from the spin). Then bad things happen. If you're going to go BFI, get the car to a complete stop, count to 10, and THEN take the foot off the brake and clutch. This is a driver issue, and not an ABS issue. > Not to mention (especially at a driving SCHOOL....) the lack of ABS > while the student is still on the track would only serve to increase > the likelihood of a spin while ordinarily under control (even if that > controlled is computer assisted). I dont think ABS helps very much at all in situations that likely result in a spin. I never notice non ABS cars spinning at a much higher rate than ABS cars. ** At a school, I don't think students should be put in a position to promote the difference. However, I'd rather have a student using ABS (and actually learning what it feels like, which most rookies drivers don't) than disabling it (especially in the wet). Again, in a straight line in the dry, sure, a good driver can defeat ABS. But you know what? No driver in the world can beat ABS in slippery conditions, or when it comes to sudden lane change / emergency situations. > BMW's ABS programming is largely non-intrusive, unless one really > mashes the brake pedal. The track has to be pretty slick or pretty > bumpy to activate the ABS on my E36. Mash on that pedal more, it is there, trust me. I raced with ABS disabled 95% of the time as E36s have strange things happen when you experience ABS at high speeds, pedal goes to the floor, system takes a second to rebuild pressure and bring it back up. A very strange feeling at 130mph 2ft behind a 993 cup car that is worth more than my race car, tow vehicle and yearly salary. *** Yeah, but effective braking doesn't come from mashing on the pedal like you're pounding a stake in the ground. And at high speeds, my pedal doesn't go to the floor at all, it just gets rock-hard for a second, and pulses away. There is one corner at Cayuga and one corner at SMP where I can induce ABS at will, simply because both are bumpy, dusty corners. However, locking up all four wheels right behind that 993 Cup car isn't necessarily going to make you slow down any quicker. In fact, I'm pretty sure if we conducted tests between your car with ABS enabled (and mashing the brakes) vs ABS disabled (and mashing the brakes), your stop times would be longer with ABS disabled. This is standard, car magazine type testing, and for some reason, the ABS cars seem to win every time. As to racing with 993's worth more than your salary, I race a '71 240Z with manual steering, manual brakes and no ABS, often on the track with cars worth 6 figures (and at the last Vintage Festival at Mosport, with a couple worth 7 figures). And of course, some cars worth not much of anything, but far too beautiful that I'd feel no end of grief if I'd ever tag one of them. My point simply being this: I've spun the 240Z more times than I've spun my BMW, despite being 5 seconds a lap faster in the BMW around Mosport. I've driven my BMW with the ABS disabled, and I was no faster around Mosport than I was with ABS enabled....so why would I disable it? As to the spinning and "build up of grass under the tires stuff", well, I don't agree with that. Once I go both feet in, I stay that way. Around Mosport, when the grass is wet, there isn't anything to build up under your tires...if you go off, there's a solid chance you're bending your car. To save the list from an endless argument, this may be a case where we'll have to agree to disagree, because what I've seen in my car, in student's cars, and from racing two cars, I'll stick with ABS, particularly in the wet. Pat
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#2. RE: [E36M3] ABS II: Disabling ABS on the track... - from Chester Wong
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:19:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] ABS II: Disabling ABS on the track... I agree with Patrick. Last September when I got into my accident on the slippery highway, the rear end started to come around, I overcorrected and probably lifted because I was staring right at a concrete divider with passengers screaming. The whipped around the other way and we were now travelling backwards. I mashed the brakes and I believe when the car got sideways, the wheels locked up and the car did not slow down at all. Once the wheels lock up, the ABS brain has no way of knowing that the car is moving or not. Chester --- Patrick Buthmann <patrick@teutonic.ca> wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:08:25 -0400 > From: "Patrick Buthmann" <patrick@teutonic.ca> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] ABS II: Disabling ABS on the track... > > Michael, > > I absolutely disagree with you. Apparently you've never managed > to lock up the brakes on an ABS equipped car, but I can do it in both my > truck (99 F-250), and my race car ('94 325is). Benefits of growing up > in Canada; on snow and ice, I can lock up either vehicle relatively > easily. And again, once ALL FOUR WHEELS are locked up, ABS no longer > applies. This is especially true when sliding sideways, as if there is > little to no forward motion in the wheels, ABS breaks down. =====
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#3. Re: Illuminated Shift Knob Install - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:47:33 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Illuminated Shift Knob Install on 7/31/03 10:05 AM, "K.C. Boyce" <kcb@abcgroup-inc.com> wrote: > I'm trying to install a lighted shift knob on my car and am running into > a few questions: > > - I've found no connectors in the shift boot area for the knob. I've > taken the boot and the foam rubber sound dampener out and the only > connecter I've found is for the alarm LED. > > - Reading past digests, it seems that there is a Y connector near the > dimmer switch; does this have wiring of the requisite length to reach > the shift boot area? > > I'm trying to be as non-invasive as possible in this install -- I know > that I can tap into wires, but my preference is to use proper connectors > so that I can remove the knob if necessary. If your car wasn't delivered with the illuminated shift knob then there's no installed cable harness for it. The harness is included with with the knob retrofit kit, but it sounds as if you only bought the knob. You have to fish the harness up to the dimmer switch area where it terminates in a T arrangement with connectors to tap into the required power. You can order this cable as P/N 61-12-2-231-560. Neil 96 M3
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#4. RE: [E36M3] SRS light on - from Mike McCune
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:16:12 -0500 From: "Mike McCune" <mikem@suds.org> Subject: RE: [E36M3] SRS light on If that is what is causing the light to be on... On my E34 it was throwing the code for the tensioners, I replaced those, then it threw the code for the control unit (lamer before me wired the car alarm to the same circuit) and had to replace that as well. Better to get someone to read the code so you know what the problem is first. I didn't DIY this job since I was a bit too cautious about detonating airbags and such .. Mike 95 M3 94 525iT -----Original Message----- From: Pilewan23@aol.com [mailto:Pilewan23@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:56 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] SRS light on Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:49:48 EDT From: Pilewan23@aol.com Subject: SRS light on If I replace the seat belt tensioners, will the SRS light go off? Any diy experiences? Thanks . Ajay 95 Avus blue ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
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#5. Camshaft upgrade - from bmw
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:24:45 -0700 (PDT) From: bmw <m3lawdawg@yahoo.com> Subject: Camshaft upgrade I'm planning to do the camshaft upgrade this coming month, and at the same time replace the buzzing vanos unit. I've heard of replacing the cam tensioners also, what parts do I need for this? And what else should I replace while I'm soing this. The car has 74k miles on it. Are there any recommendations on shops around Charlotte, who can do the install? Tony Tarhell BMWCCA __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
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#6. Vader Cushion/Leather Swap and side bolster mod HOWTO - from Chris Conner
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:08:20 -0400 From: "Chris Conner" <chris@digital7.com> Subject: Vader Cushion/Leather Swap and side bolster mod HOWTO My second HOWTO. This one on how to swap passenger <-> driver seat cushions and leather, and how to do the side bolster mod. If anyone has any suggestions or comments, feel free to contact me on or off the list. I can update the HOWTO as needed. http://m3.digital7.com/vaderswap.php Chris AIM: mpowerchris
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#7. Fluidyne Install in E36...Truly Drop In? - from Riley, Scott
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:56:05 -0500 From: "Riley, Scott" <sriley@cardinalcapital.com> Subject: Fluidyne Install in E36...Truly Drop In? Given the severe Texas summers, I am considering the installation of the new Fluidyne radiator. My track car is a '95 M3 US 3.0 with a Euro oil cooler mounted to the bottom of the factory radiator. Is the Fluidyne radiator truly drop in? Can I still us the factory expansion tank and shroud? Can the euro oil cooler still be mounted in the two plastic tabs at the bottom of the radiator? Anyone installed one of these radiators yet in a Stock E36 car? Thanks, Scott
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#8. Re: [E36M3] ABS II: Another Braking Saga and Goodyear Eagle F1's - from Gerald Low
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:54:59 -0400 From: "Gerald Low" <gerry@parallel-mkt.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] ABS II: Another Braking Saga and Goodyear Eagle F1's Garrett, I strongly disagree to your thought of disconnecting ABS in the rain during Driving Schools. First, I want to keep my car on the wet track and ABS will keep the car straight under heavy braking. If the left and right sides of the car have different coefficient of friction values, say one side asphalt and the other sand or cement, a non ABS car has a very good chance of spinning on its axis. Lockup with a non ABS car is easier in the wet and your ability to steer once locked up is limited to your backing off the brake to allow some wheel rotation. Very difficult without a lot of training and experience. Both ABS and non ABS cars will continue in a straight line when they go off the track to grass at a high speed. The non ABS car will stop marginally faster due to the build-up of grass in the front wedge where the tires meet the grass. Having ABS would have probably kept you off the grass in the first place. Both ABS and non ABS cars that are spinning as they leave the track to the grass will continue in a straight line (even thought spinning). If the ABS was pulsing out of control when the car is spinning, the car would be very unpredictable. I have found otherwise so I would assume that the wheels were or near locked. Gerry Response to: > If you go off in the wet onto grass or mud, ABS will > screw you in a couple of ways. Firstly, it ruins the > predictability you'd get from "both feet in" because > the varying traction at each wheel causes the computer > to vary the braking force unevenly. That means even > if you go off in a straight line, you're pretty much > guaranteed to spin as different wheels get different > amounts of braking. Secondly, you probably won't > actually stop until the car hits something because the > traction on wet grass or mud is so minimal that the > computer will barely allow the brakes to engage at > all. > > There are probably a few people on the list who've > seen or experienced the painful results of all that... > > -Garrett
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#9. need 2 Bridgestone Pole Position S02 in 225/45 ZR17 - from Hunt Hodgetts
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:07:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Hunt Hodgetts <hhodgetts@yahoo.com> Subject: need 2 Bridgestone Pole Position S02 in 225/45 ZR17 I just purchased a 97 M3 and it has different tires on the front and rear. Since Road Atlanta will not let me on the track with different brands of tires, I am looking for two front Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Position tires with at least 60% tread left. If anyone has a spare front set that they would be willing to sell me or trade for a pair of nearly new Toyo Proxes FZ4 in 225/45ZR17, please email me privately. Thanks, Hunt Hodgetts Atlanta __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
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#10. swapping side skirts - from Hunt Hodgetts
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:56:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Hunt Hodgetts <hhodgetts@yahoo.com> Subject: swapping side skirts I have a 97 M3 Sedan with the regular side skirts and a 97 M3 Coupe with the luxury side skirts. I would like to swap them. I assumed that the Coupe and Sedan side skirts would NOT be interchangeable but when I measured them, they are the same length 78.5" ! Does anyone know for sure if they can be swapped? Thanks, Hunt __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com