E36M3 #3537

Monday, January 05, 2004 12:02:40

This digest contains the following messages:

#1. RE: Radio serial number w/out pulling radio - from Larry T
#2. Re: [E36M3] Wheel size - from DocWyte
#3. Re: '95 Control Arm Bushings - from Chip Mitchell
#4. Re: E36 323i Brakes - from Neil Maller
#5. RE: [E36M3] Radiator replacement options? - from Dames, Mark
#6. Re: Wheel Sizes ... - from The Buch
#7. Control Arm Bushings - from Dorffer, Rich
#8. Wheel size - from Dorffer, Rich
#9. RE: [E36M3] Wheel size - from Mel Silva
#10. RE: [E36M3] Wheel size - from DocWyte
#11. Wheel sizes - from jakeadavis@comcast.net

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#1. RE: Radio serial number w/out pulling radio - from Larry T
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 02:53:23 -0500 From: "Larry T" <ltrainsvt@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Radio serial number w/out pulling radio Vince, Put the key into the run position, and then hold down the "M" button for about 15+ seconds. The serial will show up on the radio display. Larry >-------------------- 9 -------------------- >Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 22:55:00 -0500 >From: "" <vince@rjthrockmorton.com> >Subject: Radio serial number w/out pulling radio > >I recently replaced the wifes battery in her 98 318i and the radio is >asking for a code. The same thing happened on my M3 a few years ago and I >extracted the serial number by pusing a couple of the buttons on the radio >I believe. If anyone knows or remembers the procedure it would be >appreciated. > >THANKS > >Vince Throckmorton _________________________________________________________________ Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

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#2. Re: [E36M3] Wheel size - from DocWyte
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 04:28:13 -0800 (PST) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Wheel size Kinda hard to compare the full out race tires that teams use in F1 to a street radial... Also, a good forged 17" wheel will wiegh about the same as a cast 15" wheel, so unsprung weight isn't really all that bad. On a street car with leather, power accessories and a sunroof, a few pounds of unsprung weight isn't a big deal. -josh --- CurtAinSB@aol.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 00:01:38 EST > From: CurtAinSB@aol.com > Subject: Wheel size > > I was thinking about how wheel sizes have changed > over the years. In the > 60's, most cars came with wheels which were about > 14" in diameter. Since then, > manufacturers seem to be living by the "If big is > good, then bigger is better" > mantra. > > Obviously, bigger wheels allow bigger brake systems, > which is good. But for > a given outside tire diameter, a larger wheel with a > lower profile tire will > weigh more (more metal, less rubber), and this > weight is unsprung, which is > bad. > > Look at Indy or Formula One cars. They have > smallish diameter wheels, and > tires with a much taller sidewall than is popular in > current performance street > cars. Of course their brakes don't ride inside the > wheel like on street cars, > they are inboard. But if they can get fantastically > good cornering with > taller sidewall tires (implying good lateral > stiffness), then why can't this be > done on the street? > > So this raises a question or two. My '95 M3 came > with 17" wheels, and newer > performance cars are going to 18", 19", or even 20". > Are the larger diameter > wheels any better? Where will it end? My intuition > says that larger is not > necessarily better, but I am interested in the > group-think on this. Thanks for > the bw, > > Curt Allen > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003

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#3. Re: '95 Control Arm Bushings - from Chip Mitchell
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:10:13 -0500 From: Chip Mitchell <chipm@uga.edu> Subject: Re: '95 Control Arm Bushings Kirk, If I'm not mistaken, your 95 should already have offset bushings with solid rubber (no air gaps). If yours are centered, then I would imagine someone installed the wrong part at some point in the past. ChipM >Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 19:25:59 EST >From: KLchmn@aol.com >Subject: Control Arm Bushings > The bushings have the holes in the center and a small air >gap centered above and below the hole for the arm. > >I was considering the E30 M3 offset bushings to get more caster. > >Thanks, > >Kirk Lachman >Sin City Chapter >'95 M3 #21 I-stock > > >

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#4. Re:  E36 323i Brakes - from Neil Maller
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 08:12:20 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: <Slightly OT> E36 323i Brakes on 1/5/04 12:21 AM, Shane Kleinpeter <sak335@yahoo.com> wrote: > He called me when he got home from the airport and told me that on the way > home he smelled something burning. Turned out that when he arrived he found > the front (don't know which) wheel smoking and that he had unusual braking > when coasting to a stop. The car was braking without him applying the brakes. > > I told him I think it's a stuck caliper, but I'm > curious if it could be something else. Dollars to doughnuts you're right. BTDT. Twice. Neil 96 M3

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#5. RE: [E36M3] Radiator replacement options? - from Dames, Mark
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:16:38 -0800 From: "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Radiator replacement options? At first I thought the new BMW water pump impeller was metal also. It's a pretty sharp casting so it looks metal. It is actually is plastic. I checked it by applying a hot soldering iron to the back of the impeller. It started to melt immediately. mark -----Original Message----- From: Chester Wong [mailto:chester_p_wong@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 3:02 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Radiator replacement options? Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:57:06 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Radiator replacement options? O...just to clarify things where people thought that BMW reverted to plastic impellers, they did not. Sure, it's black, but it's looks like some sort of black anodized aluminum. Much, much prettier than the factor metal impeller than came out of Dave Ngo's car.... Chester Happy Holidays everyone!!! --- "Dames, Mark" <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> wrote: > new water pump > pressure tank bleed screw ===== ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************

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#6. Re:  Wheel Sizes ... - from The Buch
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 07:51:39 -0800 From: The Buch <the_buch@telus.net> Subject: Re: Wheel Sizes ... I think Curt has a point here ... from observation when I switched from the 17" stock wheels on my old Porsche 930 to 18", the heavier wheels significantly degraded the feel and handling of the car more than the gains from wider lower profile rubber ... in addition, the extra clearance around the brakes allowed a lot of water to be thrown around in their general area causing some drying time on initial application on the highway when the brakes are seldom used ... I think the main reason most people go to the larger wheel diameters is cosmetic. Curt Allen wrote: ... "So this raises a question or two. My '95 M3 came with 17" wheels, and newer performance cars are going to 18", 19", or even 20". Are the larger diameter wheels any better? Where will it end? My intuition says that larger is not necessarily better, but I am interested in the group-think on this ..." Regards, Doug

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#7. Control Arm Bushings - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:08:05 -0500 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Control Arm Bushings > I was checking the race car out for the Feb 7-8 club race here in Vegas and > found one of the outer ball joints had play. I'm going to replace both arms > and the bushings. > Which bushings should I use? The car is track only, so I'm considering > delrin. > Thoughts? I am not familiar with any Delrin ball joints... > The funny thing is that there appears to be a '95 M3 only bushing holder (for > lack of a better name for the lollipop thingy). I can't find a part number > on mine other than L787 and R788 which doesn't match the L789 and R790 that I'm > supposed to have. The bushings have the holes in the center and a small air > gap centered above and below the hole for the arm. Those bushings sound like they are the 96+ M3 bushings, the 95 M3 bushings are offset and have only one small window in the rubber. The control arm bushing holders (lollipops) are the same for E30s and E36s (BMW part # 31 12 1 139 789/790 for left and right) > I was considering the E30 M3 offset bushings to get more caster. The 95 M3 bushings and the offset E30 M3 bushings appear to be exactly the same in geometry. I was unable to visually detect any difference between the two even though BMW has different part numbers. There may be a difference in the bushings internally. I would use the 95 M3 bushings (BMW part # 31 12 9 064 875). I have all of these bushings right now and can take some pics to compare them if anyone needs them. Regards, Rich

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#8. Wheel size - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:20:06 -0500 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Wheel size > I was thinking about how wheel sizes have changed over the years. In the > 60's, most cars came with wheels which were about 14" in diameter. Since then, > manufacturers seem to be living by the "If big is good, then bigger is better" > mantra. Many think this way... > Obviously, bigger wheels allow bigger brake systems, which is good. But for > a given outside tire diameter, a larger wheel with a lower profile tire will > weigh more (more metal, less rubber), and this weight is unsprung, which is > bad. Yes, additional unsprung weight is bad for suspension and handling dynamics, but better tread, stiffer profile, better footprint, etc., can be very good for handling. Also, rubber and steel within the tires is very heavy too and additional rotating mass further from the axle is bad. The reason many larger wheel/tire combinations are heavier than equally sized (diameter) wheel and tire is that the larger wheels are typically wider (more wheel width and more tread width). > Look at Indy or Formula One cars. They have smallish diameter wheels, and > tires with a much taller sidewall than is popular in current performance street > cars. Of course their brakes don't ride inside the wheel like on street cars, > they are inboard. But if they can get fantastically good cornering with > taller sidewall tires (implying good lateral stiffness), then why can't this be > done on the street? It can ignoring your comment about brakes. But, comparing Indy/Cart/F1 tires to street tires is quite silly. First off, the engineering and design that goes into those tires is much different than street tires. The sidewalls are very stiff (to attempt to make up for the higher profile..see next paragraph) and have very well engineered designs based on different courses, different chassis manufacturers, different ambient conditions, etc. This is way too impractical for the "all-for-one" street use. General automotive society expects tires to do it all from sun/rain/snow and -20F - 110F. Lastly, it should be noted that Indy/Cart/F1 wheel size is dictated by regulations in an effort to act as impediment to higher cornering speeds, etc. just like the grooves in the tires for F1. So, if they had their way, they would surely have larger wheels with lower profile tires and no grooves. > So this raises a question or two. My '95 M3 came with 17" wheels, and newer > performance cars are going to 18", 19", or even 20". Are the larger diameter > wheels any better? Where will it end? My intuition says that larger is not > necessarily better, but I am interested in the group-think on this. Thanks for > the bw, My personal opinion, 17" wheels are the optimum size (considering the tires that are available) for the E36 M3 for street and track use offering the right combination of compliance and stiffness. Regards, Rich

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#9. RE: [E36M3] Wheel size - from Mel Silva
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:36:18 -0600 From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Wheel size Hi Rich et al, One more question now: I'm conceding that your opinion on the wheel diameter is the 'right' answer for me, so what about width? If I was to look for a second set of wheels I would like to lose the staggered setup and have the same rim width and therefore tire size all the way around. I've NEVER heard of anyone running all 7.5" rim width, but I've heard a lot of you running all 8.5" rim width. What about 8" rim width? Is that too much of a compromise? Some of the lighter (and less expensive) BBS wheels only come in full inch rim widths (RK's for example) so you get a choice of 8" or 9" width in a 17" diameter. Is it worth the extra $ to get the extra 1/2" inch? (I'm talking about rims here guys, let's keep it out of the gutter) Mel ----text deleted for space, main point below------------------ My personal opinion, 17" wheels are the optimum size (considering the tires that are available) for the E36 M3 for street and track use offering the right combination of compliance and stiffness. Regards, Rich

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#10. RE: [E36M3] Wheel size - from DocWyte
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:53:22 -0800 (PST) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Wheel size Running 17x8 all the way round is fine, but you will be somewhat constricted in tire choices. To run a 255, you really ought to have at least an 8.5" wide wheel... -josh --- Mel Silva <melsilva@mindspring.com> wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:36:18 -0600 > From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Wheel size > > Hi Rich et al, > One more question now: > I'm conceding that your opinion on the wheel > diameter is the 'right' answer > for me, so what about width? If I was to look for a > second set of wheels I > would like to lose the staggered setup and have the > same rim width and > therefore tire size all the way around. I've NEVER > heard of anyone running > all 7.5" rim width, but I've heard a lot of you > running all 8.5" rim width. > What about 8" rim width? Is that too much of a > compromise? Some of the > lighter (and less expensive) BBS wheels only come in > full inch rim widths > (RK's for example) so you get a choice of 8" or 9" > width in a 17" diameter. > Is it worth the extra $ to get the extra 1/2" inch? > (I'm talking about rims > here guys, let's keep it out of the gutter) > > Mel > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003

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#11. Wheel sizes - from jakeadavis@comcast.net
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:55:32 +0000 From: jakeadavis@comcast.net Subject: Wheel sizes <<Look at Indy or Formula One cars. They have smallish diameter wheels, and tires with a much taller sidewall than is popular in current performance street cars. Of course their brakes don't ride inside the wheel like on street cars, they are inboard. But if they can get fantastically good cornering with taller sidewall tires (implying good lateral stiffness), then why can't this be done on the street?>> Actually F1/IRL/CART formula cars have outboard brakes. F1 wheels are 13", IRL/CART are 15". However, sports cars (GA/IMSA) use 17" wheeels. On a Formula car, the sidewall of the tire makes up a very large part of the overal spring rate equation, compared to a street vehicle. As far as wheel diameters getting out of hand, the answer is yes! The 'bling bling' factor (19" and larger wheels) is eye candy only (just like the 15" wide 13" wheel craze) and quite often has detrimental effects on handling due to factors such as high wheel weight, screwed up offsets, etc. Heck, it can simply be too much tire for the power. It's not just lateral G's either, sidewall height has a significant effect on transient response (turn-in) too. Jake

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