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#1. RE: [E36M3] Tire choices (again) - from Newman, Christopher
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:00:05 -0500 From: "Newman, Christopher" <CNewman@LSAC.org> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Tire choices (again) I don't have personal experience with them on an M3, and I've heard the comments that they are no-season tires, but what about trying all-season tires, at least in the back ? Since the back tires tend to wear out quicker than the fronts, what if you put summer/performance tires up front and all-season tires in the back ? From a durability standpoint, all-seasons should last a lot longer. And depending on where you live, the all-seasons should help in the snow. Any comments on whether this is a good or bad idea? Or, if you want to stick with summer/performance tires, what about the Yokohama AVS ES100 ? I don't have experience with these either, but when I was looking around at tires, I seem to recall they had a relatively good tread rating. ------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:11:39 -0800 From: "david tow" <david_tow@hotmail.com> Subject: Tire choices (again) Hi, all, This question of mine must have been asked hundreds of times. Unlike a lot of questions before me, however, I am shopping for a set of tires that are most durable and comfortable. I have had Kumho ECSTA Supra 712 and MXX3 and am sick and tired of having to replace them so quickly. I am willing to suffer some handling for durability and comfort this time. I've checked a few tires in Tirerack, and come up with three sets that seem to fit my bill on paper: Sumitomo HTR Pirelli P7000 SUPERSPORT Kumho Ecsta ASX What do you think of these? I really want to try AVS Sport, but am afraid that it would be like Kumho ECSTA Supra 712 - cheap and short-lived. Any help from you would be greatly appreciated! David
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Tire choices (again) - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:21:40 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Tire choices (again) I don't understand how some people can go thru tires so quickly. I had 235/40 S03 on all four 8.5" wide wheels last year and I put 30k miles on them and they still have plenty of tread left....and I drove like I stole it! Well, maybe you guys are peeling out and stuff, but I know I scrub those tires on turns. I must be doing something wrong! Chester =====
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#3. FW: Re: 36 M3 track pad (front and rear) - from James Clay
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:38:22 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: FW: Re: 36 M3 track pad (front and rear) > Hawk HT-10 is my choice for track pad, if you are not driving more > than to and from the track on the street. HP Plus work well as a > combo pad and we have recently had good results with Ferodo DS2500 for > a combo pad. > > James > > > James Clay > http://www.bimmerworld.com > Engineered BMW Performance > 540.639.9648 > >
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#4. FW: Re: [E36M3] Re: E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) - from James Clay
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:40:55 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: FW: Re: [E36M3] Re: E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) First, WE ARE A LIST SPONSOR!!! Have been since the beginning of the program. If you want to keep your wheels pretty, HT-10 are the way to go. They have some other characteristics that make them super nice also. If you want the initial bite of a Blue, go with HT-14 in the front. James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com <http://www.bimmerworld.com/> Engineered BMW Performance 540.639.9648 From: dhogg [mailto:dhogg@suscom.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 6:53 AM To: E36 M3 List (e36m3@bmw-m.net) Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) My final post on this, I promise. I've liked and used PF90's, then PF97's for many years, but didn't realize the corrosiveness of the PF97 brake dust until I drove home from LRP in the rain last year on street tires, which were on pristine M Contours. It's no problem unless it gets wet and then dries caked on the wheel as it did on this trip. I also experienced serious heat-related brake fade at the Summit Point enduro last year. If I'm going to put up with the dust of doom anyway, I'll go with the racers' favorite Hawks, which the Bimmerworld folks tell me have noticeably better heat-resisting qualities than PF97's. Now, they sell Hawks so they're prejudiced, but they also kick tail in ITS (and not shabby at other levels) with no brake problems at all. Hmmm. (HEY, why aren't they a list sponsor?!) Dave Hogg IS #20 Club Racer Wannabe
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#5. Re: [E36M3] E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) - from Michael Lawrence
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:58:36 -0500 From: "Michael Lawrence" <95m3ltw@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Williams" <willtj@bellsouth.net> > Also, I am considering going back to the solid hub rotors to save a little > money since I suspect the change I made to the race pad had more to do with > curing my warping issue than the eurosport rotor did. Comments? Tim, I would tend to say that your problem of warping rotors was solved more by the experience you gained on track and improvement of braking technique. When it comes to brake pads and rotors for that matter, seems everyone has a different opinion. If you have found something that works for you, just stick with it and only experiment when you see first hand, someone at the track with a better combination. I have been racing, instructing and tracking 2 M3s for several years. Don't have either now and I sure do miss both! I warped the very first set of rotors on my M3. Looking back, it was my technique, of applying brakes too soon and braking way too long. When I improved to using 100% of the brakes in the shortest distance possible, I found that even bone stock pads and rotors held up with no warping. After a day of this though, the stock pads were not up to the task anymore. Racing, I have not used a pad that worked better than Hawk Blues. I have tried them all or atleast what was available a couple of years ago. Have not tried the HT10. Any version of the PF pad just did not have the bite of the Blues, I also felt my braking zones were longer by a few feet when using them. Some people complained about Hawk B's eating rotors, one must bring them up to temp for a lap before using them 100%. I installed a set of Euro rotors on my M3 LTW, used it in 7 races, about 10 track weekends instructing. The rotors were just fine after using 6-7 sets of pads. Blues did have the problem of eating paint but I have heard the new versions do not, YMMV. I used my LTW on the street with blues too. Not recommended, but nothing cooler than stopping at 10/10ths in the dark and watching the light show from the brakes. The pads would throw off sparks about 2-3ft out from the wheel. They only did this when cold and thus eating the rotor and paint of the car I am sure. Mike
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Re: E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) - from Michael Lawrence
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:01:15 -0500 From: "Michael Lawrence" <95m3ltw@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) IMO, Hawk blue fronts with Hawk blacks in the rear gave me great balance at tracks like Road Atlanta, Sebring, Kershaw etc. Our cars have more rear brake balance than most. Some of this is wasted when the ABS kicks in, thus increasing your braking distance. Using Blacks in the back help shift a bit of front bias thus delaying the ABS kicking in on the rears. YMMV Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "dhogg" <dhogg@suscom.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 9:14 PM Subject: [E36M3] Re: E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:07:52 -0500 > From: "dhogg" <dhogg@suscom.net> > Subject: Re: E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) > > Neil's comments on the PF97's are dead on, which is to say it's a very good > pad that could use a little more heat resistance for racing, and yes, > they're corrosive when wet just like the old Hawk Blues. I'll be interested > to learn more about the HT-10's also. > > > > BTW, for school use you don't really have to match pads f/r. I know that's > controversial, but it's my opinion. The fronts do the lion's share of the > work anyway, so if your fronts are good you'll stop straight and well. What > you don't want is grippy rears and sloppy fronts, which will make you tail > happy in braking zones - a little too entertaining. Now, for more advanced > work I'd offer a different opinion. > > > > Dave Hogg > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > Taylor Autosport http://www.taylorautosport.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > BMW M3 Specialties http://www.jt-designs.com > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#7. Cobalt race brake pads - from Tim Ng
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:59:46 -0800 From: "Tim Ng" <s14realm3@peachtreebmwcca.org> Subject: Cobalt race brake pads I had a chance to try a set of Cobalt race pads right after my set of Hawk Blues for a back to back comparison @ Sebring Winterfest. I love my Hawk Blues BUT I must say that for 3/4 the money of the Hawk blues, these Cobalt pads are 95% of the Hawks. I like the bite that these pads have, they don't need bedding in, they allow for easy modulation, seem to last about as long as the blues, AND the brake dust are NOT suppose to be corrosive!!! I think I will get another set to try. I was running them on my DM e30 m3 with Brembo BBK. Tim Ng 95 E36 M3 Dakar Yellow BzznM3 92 E30 325ic White M-technic convertible 91 E30 M3 Diamond Swartz (street car) 88 E30 M3 Red/Yellow (red dragon track car) 88 E30 M3 Diamond Swartz (for sale) 91 MKII Toyota MR2 Turbo 90 E30 325ica (for sell) 03 Chevy Avalanche Z66 (tow vehicle)
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#8. M3 cylinder head refresh: - from Jim
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:32:15 -0800 From: Jim <rx3sp@lanset.com> Subject: M3 cylinder head refresh: Just a quick point about the valve springs. After deciding my 325 motor liked 7200 rpm, the valve springs decided they did NOT like it. SCCA I.T.S. rules are just like BMWCCA stock class, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that brand new valve springs were significantly stiffer than 70,000 street mile old springs. I am apparently one of the few to do this, as Crevier BMW had to source valve springs from 5 different dealers to get 24. I would spring for springs. -- Jay Morris Unauthorized recipients of this email are required to drink Jagermeister until they forget what they have read that is unauthorized.
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Tire choices (again) - from alex.fadeev@verizon.com
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:46:57 -0600 From: alex.fadeev@verizon.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] Tire choices (again) "Newman, Christopher" <CNewman@LSAC.org> wrote: > > I don't have personal experience with them on an M3, and I've heard > the comments that they are no-season tires, but what about trying > all-season tires, at least in the back ? Since the back tires tend > to wear out quicker than the fronts, what if you put summer/performance > tires up front and all-season tires in the back ? Chris, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'no-season tires', but I would certainly: 1). Never ever mix tire models (let alone brands or categories) front to rear. I most definitely do not need that much excitement in my daily commute! 2). Would stay away from 'all-season' gum. > From a durability standpoint, all-seasons should last a lot longer. True. They are probably cheaper to boot. But at the expense of grip, handling and car control. If that still sounds like a good deal, I see a Houndia/Kia in your future ; -) > And depending on where you live, the all-seasons should help in the > snow. Any comments on whether this is a good or bad idea? Very true on the snow business. Summer tires also tend to get hard and loose traction in low temperatures. I define 'low' as 40F, as that's about as cold as it gets in Dallas. > Or, if you want to stick with summer/performance tires, what about > the Yokohama AVS ES100 ? They suck. And don't wear out. Dry traction is mediocre. Steering response is vague. Wet traction is OK, but nothing to write home about. You get what you pay for. As a reference point, the only cheap tires (<$130) that I liked were Bridgestone RE730s and Kumho MXs. I got the early RE730s that did not howl, were fantastic in the rain, good in the dry and lasted me 3 DEs and a full autoX season. Bridgestone had since hiked prices up to the $150-160 range for later RE730s and now RE750s. The two downsides to Kumhos MXs are the wrong size and noise. 245/40-17 are the closest to stock. Between Kumho's conservative size measurements and wider/taller than stock tire size, the right rear rubs on my '95 M3's muffler. They did fit my wife's 328i and howled for about 18 months and 25+K miles. They are also very heavy, but great on dry and decent in the rain. > I don't have experience with these either, but when I was looking > around at tires, I seem to recall they had a relatively good tread > rating. Tread rating is meaningless. It's only a relative measure within the same tire brand. Can't compare across brands and it is not normalized in any meaningful way. Just ignore it. HTH, alex f > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:11:39 -0800 > From: "david tow" <david_tow@hotmail.com> > Subject: Tire choices (again) > > Hi, all, > > This question of mine must have been asked hundreds of times. Unlike > a lot of questions before me, however, I am shopping for a set of > tires that are most durable and comfortable. I have had Kumho ECSTA > Supra 712 and MXX3 and > > am sick and tired of having to replace them so quickly. I am willing > to suffer some handling for durability and comfort this time. > > I've checked a few tires in Tirerack, and come up with three sets that > seem to fit my bill on paper: > Sumitomo HTR > Pirelli P7000 SUPERSPORT > Kumho Ecsta ASX > > What do you think of these? I really want to try AVS Sport, but am > afraid that it would be like Kumho ECSTA Supra 712 - cheap and short-lived. > > Any help from you would be greatly appreciated! > > David
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#10. Mounting question on hybrid GC camber plates... - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:08:07 -0500 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: Mounting question on hybrid GC camber plates... > Have a set of these coming to me and I have a question > on how they mount. > Do they have studs like the factory bearing plates so > you can still run an upper strut brace? On the GC > site it looks like they use allen head bolts that bolt > from the engine compartment down... No, it is from the bottom up. The metal bracket/slide mounts up with the bolts welded to the bracket similar to the factory strut mount. > Although I suppose I could use bolts up through the > bottom of the strut tower up, then through the strut > brace... John Cloutier already responded and my comments would have been exactly the same. I too have the GC hybrid plates with the Motorsport strut brace with zero issues. Regards, Rich
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#11. E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) - from Dorffer, Rich
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:14:04 -0500 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <RDORFFER@CleIndians.com> Subject: E36 M3 track pad (front and rear) > Regarding the Hawk Blue's dust, a recent trip to a body shop for ding work > earned me a free car wash. Imagine my amazement when I came to pick up the > car and found previously Hawk Blue dust encrusted stock wheels perfectly > clean. It was late in the day and the receptionist did not know what the > shop had used on the wheels, but there _is_ hope for the Hawk Blue/PF-97 > encrusted wheels! That would be acid. My local BMW dealer has a few variations of the stuff. I had a set of E30 basketweaves that had an amazing amount of rust encrusted onto the rear driver's side wheel (the PO's dealer couldn't get the wheel off and the PO simply let the brakes wear until the pad backing plate (there was no pad material left) had worn through the rotor until it separated into two pieces and the backing plates had worn half way through...). The rust simply wouldn't come off with anything I tried. Needless to say, I was telling a porter at a local dealer I hang out at and the porter told me to go get the wheel. He removed 95% of the problem and told me he could get it all removed if I wanted. I declined since I am media blasting them anyway. They have some strong wheel cleaner and they aren't afraid to use it.... Later, Rich