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#1. Re: Box of marbles exorcised after two years - from kim.burgess@att.net
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:53:11 +0000 From: kim.burgess@att.net Subject: Re: Box of marbles exorcised after two years Chester Wong wrote: Timing the whole thing is a bit trickier. If you follow the TIS word for word, you will most likely end up with an intake cam that starts retarded and advances to only slightly pass normal. You need a TDC gauge, skip one tooth of the VANOS engagement before sucking the unit in, and need to adjust the intake cam w.r.t. the exhaust cam after all is said and done. Chester - have you seen the Bentley updates - http://www.bentleypublishers.com/features/b398/b398_updates1.htm or http://www.bentleypublishers.com/features/b398/b398_117.pdf Kim Burgess
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Re: Box of marbles exorcised after two years - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 23:46:07 -0400 From: "Chester Wong" <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Box of marbles exorcised after two years I'm not quite sure I follow. I've never trusted the Bentley over something BMW publishes for their mechanics. I also doubt that most dealer techs even use the TIS ;) Thus Lowell's terrible experience with engine timing, Wayne's tranny installed with an impact hammer, etc. The more I work on these cars, the less I trust any person other than me or Wayne to work on it. The information you sited sorta repeats what the TIS says except it's a bit abbreviated. ...it still won't ensure that you have a correctly timed valvetrain. BTW, thanks for the link to the tools, but those tools are more for removing the rack from the car. I already have the innards out of the rack and need the special fittings to remove the seals and install new ones. They'll be here shortly. On a side note, can someone explain to me how a variable ratio steering rack works? I understand something like the active steering in the new 5 series where there are things that slide in and out, but on our rack, it's just a rack with helical cut teeth and a pinion which has helical cut teeth as well. I can't see how you can vary the spacing between the teeth on the rack since the tooth pitch on the pinion is constant... Chester > -----Original Message----- > From: kim.burgess@att.net [mailto:kim.burgess@att.net] > Chester Wong wrote: > Timing the whole thing is a bit trickier. If you follow the TIS word for > word, you will most likely end up with an intake cam that starts retarded > and advances to only slightly pass normal. > You need a TDC gauge, skip one tooth of the VANOS engagement before > sucking > the unit in, and need to adjust the intake cam w.r.t. the exhaust cam > after > all is said and done. > > > Chester - have you seen the Bentley updates - > http://www.bentleypublishers.com/features/b398/b398_updates1.htm > or > http://www.bentleypublishers.com/features/b398/b398_117.pdf
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Box of marbles exorcised after two years - from Chester Wong
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:05:19 -0400 From: "Chester Wong" <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Box of marbles exorcised after two years > -----Original Message----- > To make the above step extra fun, the holes in the sprockets (in my case) > do not jive with the TIS instructions anyways...When you put the sprockets > and chain in place on the front of the cams, you are supposed to be > centered in both sets of holes. Well, that wasn't exactly the case. If > you center the holes in the exhaust sprocket, the holes in the intake > sprocket are off center and vice-versa. I finally settled on a setting > where clocking the exhaust sprocket fully clockwise prior to offering up > the new VANOS unit resulted in about 3-5 degrees of opening still left in > the intake sprocket. My reasoning: starting out with the exhaust sprocket > centered, the holes in the exhaust sprocket are smaller, so you can not > clock it as far to start with. When the VANOS is all the way extended, > you will not be up against the 'stops' in the intake sprocket, thereby you > will have all the travel of the VANOS available. Has your VANOS ever been tampered by someone else? If so, they might have removed the sprockets and corresponding chain and had one of the sprockets shift on the chain. Also, the TIS shows that when you first install the sprockets, the chain tensioner on the side is supposed to be removed. At this point, the intake sprocket should be centered w.r.t. the studs and the holes on the exhaust cam should be on the farthest left of the corresponding slot. When you then install the special tool to apply slight pressure against the tensioner, the taken up slack rotates the sprocket so that it is now centered. You can shift the sprocket one chain link, ya know?! =) Not sure I follow your reasoning here. The intake and exhaust sprockets will both bottom at the same time w.r.t. the studs or bolts. Also, once everything is tightened, *NOTHING* slides around other than the VANOS cup that changes the relationship of the intake cam w.r.t. the exhaust cam. That whole rotating the exhaust sprocket clockwise and then rotating back only facilitates sucking in the VANOS cup. > I have to agree with Lowell here...using the jigs and the dowel pin to > time everything makes a lot of this much simpler. you don't have to worry > about moving anything while you are in there turning and twisting this and > that. I was able to confirm that my VANOS was fully advancing by > measuring the amount that the VANOS would advance and then installing it. > While the exhaust cam was still loose, I put 60psi air to the unit, > energized the solenoid, and let the splined cup push in to the intake cam. > I then measured the amount of the shaft that was protruding from the VANOS > unit, and viola, full extension. I then took everything apart, retarded > the VANOS, reclocked, and reinstalled everything, and hoped for the > best...so far so good. The jigs are a definite must. What Lowell said about eyeballing it...well...I wouldn't trust my eyes. Oftentimes, I've eyed it and thought that it was square. Place the blocks on and see that it's way off! Perhaps the tilt of the head has something to do with my skewed perception. The dowel pin will only work for those with stock flywheels. Since I have an aftermarket bad boy, it doesn't work for me. Also, I'd trust a depth gauge going through cylinder #1 more =) ....which is what I do. Also, the way you tested your timing is a bit strange. When you said that your exhaust cam was still loose, I assume you mean the 4 torx bolts that secure the exhaust sprockets to the exhaust cam, correct? I guess you can test it that way, but you usually remove the cam blocks (you can leave the one on the exhaust cam if you want) and you energize the solenoid. When you do that, you measure the distance from the cam sensor to the chain tensioner up top. Min spec is 8.5mm. I think I usually get around 9mm....though I want 15mm!!! ;) <BFG> Chester
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#4. How steering works... - from Chester Wong
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:14:35 -0400 From: "Chester Wong" <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: How steering works... Sure enough.. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering2.htm I guess the teeth in the rack would not be evenly spaced, but I would have to understand more about helical gears to understand how different pitch teeth can mesh with the same pitch pinion. Chester
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#5. re: Need stock E36 M3 springs (San Jose, CA. area) - from michael smith
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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:34:49 -0700 From: "michael smith" <mwsmith99@pacbell.net> Subject: re: Need stock E36 M3 springs (San Jose, CA. area) re:>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:54:05 -0700 From: "michael smith" <mwsmith99@pacbell.net> Subject: Need stock E36 M3 springs (San Jose, CA. area) >>>>>> I forgot to mention, these need to be for a 1995 M3. _MWS
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Box of marbles exorcised after two years - from ajoseph1981@earthlink.net
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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:45:34 -0700 (PDT) From: ajoseph1981@earthlink.net Subject: RE: [E36M3] Box of marbles exorcised after two years ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chester Wong" <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> To: <ajoseph1981@earthlink.net>; "'E36M3'" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: RE: [E36M3] Box of marbles exorcised after two years > > -----Original Message----- > > To make the above step extra fun, the holes in the sprockets (in my case) > > do not jive with the TIS instructions anyways...When you put the sprockets > > and chain in place on the front of the cams, you are supposed to be > > centered in both sets of holes. Well, that wasn't exactly the case. If > > you center the holes in the exhaust sprocket, the holes in the intake > > sprocket are off center and vice-versa. I finally settled on a setting > > where clocking the exhaust sprocket fully clockwise prior to offering up > > the new VANOS unit resulted in about 3-5 degrees of opening still left in > > the intake sprocket. My reasoning: starting out with the exhaust sprocket > > centered, the holes in the exhaust sprocket are smaller, so you can not > > clock it as far to start with. When the VANOS is all the way extended, > > you will not be up against the 'stops' in the intake sprocket, thereby you > > will have all the travel of the VANOS available. > > Has your VANOS ever been tampered by someone else? If so, they might have > removed the sprockets and corresponding chain and had one of the sprockets > shift on the chain. Also, the TIS shows that when you first install the > sprockets, the chain tensioner on the side is supposed to be removed. At > this point, the intake sprocket should be centered w.r.t. the studs and the > holes on the exhaust cam should be on the farthest left of the corresponding > slot. When you then install the special tool to apply slight pressure > against the tensioner, the taken up slack rotates the sprocket so that it is > now centered. You can shift the sprocket one chain link, ya know?! =) The VANOS has been replaced twice before, but they never went as far as to check the sprockets, or the thrust washers, etc. I went back and spoke to the shop that did the work previously. I usually believe a person until I can prove they are fibbing. Actually, the TIS copy I have (10/2001) states the same process, but in my case with the holes on the exhaust sprocket centered, some tension on the dummy tensioner,and the holes on the exhaust sprocket centered, the holes on the intake sprocket were to the left of center (studs were to the right of center). Slipping the chain one tooth on the intake sprocket put the studs to the left of center. I had likewise results with slipping one tooth on the exhaust sprocket. No amount of tensioner pressure ever drew the exhaust sprocket close to center (came within a bolt width at best). This is why I started out with the exhaust sprocket centered and the intake sprocket studs to the right of center. This way when I clocked the two sprockets clockwise before inserting the VANOS, the exhaust sprocket came up against the bolts and a very slight gap between the studs and the opening in the intake sprocket remained (~2mm). After inserting the VANOS unit in to the splines (VANOS unit bottomed out), and rotating the sprocket/chain assembly back CCW to draw the VANOS unit back up to the head, I was right back where I started before shifting everything clockwise before inserting the VANOS unit. Confused yet? 8^) As a further (don't know if I would call it a test...experiment?) I took the splined cup from my old VANOS unit and inserted it to its full depth and watched the relation between everything and how far it moved. With the cup inserted all the way, I still had my small gap between the studs and the edge of the hole in the intake sprocket. I did all this before reinstalling the thrust washers and spring plate so I could watch everything. > Not sure I follow your reasoning here. The intake and exhaust sprockets > will both bottom at the same time w.r.t. the studs or bolts. Also, once > everything is tightened, *NOTHING* slides around other than the VANOS cup > that changes the relationship of the intake cam w.r.t. the exhaust cam. > That whole rotating the exhaust sprocket clockwise and then rotating back > only facilitates sucking in the VANOS cup. I agree with the last part about the reason for twisting the sprockets, but I never could get both sprockets to come up against a stud or bolt at the same time...close, but not at the same time. There was always a little travel left in the other when either one bottomed out. I chose to leave a little travel left in the intake sprocket. Whaddya think...good or bad? > > I have to agree with Lowell here...using the jigs and the dowel pin to > > time everything makes a lot of this much simpler. you don't have to worry > > about moving anything while you are in there turning and twisting this and > > that. I was able to confirm that my VANOS was fully advancing by > > measuring the amount that the VANOS would advance and then installing it. > > While the exhaust cam was still loose, I put 60psi air to the unit, > > energized the solenoid, and let the splined cup push in to the intake cam. > > I then measured the amount of the shaft that was protruding from the VANOS > > unit, and viola, full extension. I then took everything apart, retarded > > the VANOS, reclocked, and reinstalled everything, and hoped for the > > best...so far so good. > > The jigs are a definite must. What Lowell said about eyeballing > it...well...I wouldn't trust my eyes. Oftentimes, I've eyed it and thought > that it was square. Place the blocks on and see that it's way off! Perhaps > the tilt of the head has something to do with my skewed perception. The > dowel pin will only work for those with stock flywheels. Since I have an > aftermarket bad boy, it doesn't work for me. Also, I'd trust a depth gauge > going through cylinder #1 more =) ....which is what I do. I still have a stock flywheel (for now...<dream mode on>...). Allegedly, UUC's stage two flywheel is supposed to have the locator hole in the correct spot. As for my eyes, well, stare at anything long enough and hard enough, and I see what I want to. I think I trust the jigs more, myself. > Also, the way you tested your timing is a bit strange. When you said that > your exhaust cam was still loose, I assume you mean the 4 torx bolts that > secure the exhaust sprockets to the exhaust cam, correct? I guess you can > test it that way, but you usually remove the cam blocks (you can leave the > one on the exhaust cam if you want) and you energize the solenoid. When you > do that, you measure the distance from the cam sensor to the chain tensioner > up top. Min spec is 8.5mm. I think I usually get around 9mm....though I > want 15mm!!! ;) <BFG> Yes, I meant my exhaust sprocket was still loose. Essentially, it is the same test (I think...new to this VANOS business) as the 'correct test', except instead of shifting the whole cam, I just shifted the sprocket around the end of the cam shaft. Instead of measuring between the impulse wheel on the intake cam and the upper tensioner, I measured the protrusion of the shaft from the VANOS unit. Dunno...I guess the 'HA HA, I've made it this far, I know better' bug bit me and it seemed like a good idea. I do want to go back and try it the other way next time. I had heard some mixed results about the TIS' air test. When you engineer and build the long travel VANOS unit, put me down for one.. Money no object for that bit of unobtanium. Even after all this, I am still not 100% that I am getting full VANOS actuation, but the engine does rev much easier and pull stronger, longer (sounds like some of the spam I get). I intend to go in again to check some of the things that you and Lowell have brought up about all this. It may not be until this Xmas when Santa brings my Schrick cams, though. Who am I kidding, it will probably be MUCH sooner than that...doubt and wonder will eat me alive. --Andrew Joseph
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#7. E36 M3 Engine Swap Oil Dipstick Problems - from Bill P
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:15:14 -0400 From: "Bill P" <billpanop@suscom.net> Subject: E36 M3 Engine Swap Oil Dipstick Problems Saw this write up at http://homepage.mac.com/aceves/OBD_ONE1.html I have a 1995 M3. I put a 1997 3.2L short block in and used my original 1995 cyl head. My problem is the dip stick tube. It seems the hole in the oil pan is MUCH larger then the tube. Not a tight fit at all. Even the O-ring fits inside the whole. I ordered a 1997 dip stick tube (tube part# 11 43 1 735 276 : dip-stick part # 11 43 1 427 993 : O-Ring 11 43 1 287 541) and it looks NO DIFFERENT then my 1995 stuff. Did BMW sell me the wrong stuff? Am I doing something wrong? To me, it seems that some type of rubber (or other) grommet needs in the oil pan hole to make a seal. The O-ring is to small to make a seal, it actually fits in the oil pan hole. The article said " The intake side is where pretty much all of the work has to be done. See Figures 3, 4, 5,and 6. Some of the things to be removed and or modified are the coolant pipe, water temperature sensor, oil dip stick, throttle body, hoses, etc." It never says what needs to be modified on the dip stick. If anyone knows, please help as I am stuck. Thanks in Advance Bill P
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#8. Automobile magazine may 2004 issue wanted - from Msebmwman@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:19:10 EDT From: Msebmwman@aol.com Subject: Automobile magazine may 2004 issue wanted Any of you guys and gals get Automobile magazine and still have the may 2004 issue lying around? I missed this one and when I called for an extra they said they were already out. I'd be very willing to pay newstand price plus shipping plus extra for your trouble by paypal or personal check. Best regards, Marc 95M3
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#9. Fog light part question - from Lowe, Daniel
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:48:23 -0400 From: "Lowe, Daniel" <DLowe@MVCUSA.com> Subject: Fog light part question I purchased my '95 M3 (prod 2/95) without fog lights. I had my mechanic order me a set recently. Supposedly, they are the same fogs that went into every other E36 and more. However, the plug on my car does not fit into the back of the light. My plug has a 90 degree corner on the top right and a 45 degree corner on the bottom right. The plug on the fog my mechanic bought has a 90 corner on the bottom right and a 45 degree corner on the top right. The left side and the middle ^ on the bottom are the same on both plugs. So, were there 2 or more different fogs made for the E36? Anyone else come across this problem? The part number of the fogs ordered are 63 17 8 357 389/390. Thanks. Regards, Dan
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#10. FW: [RMC BMW CCA] Good for a laugh - BMW SW111 keychain on e-bay! - from Graeme Weston-Lewis
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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:41:14 -0600 From: "Graeme Weston-Lewis" <gweston@lsil.com> Subject: FW: [RMC BMW CCA] Good for a laugh - BMW SW111 keychain on e-bay! This got me close to crying! Graeme -----Original Message----- From: brian bowden Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:15 AM To: rmc-bmwcca@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RMC BMW CCA] Good for a laugh - BMW SW111 keychain on e-bay! Don't be fooled, it is the genuine article: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?viewItem&category=50431&item=7903182960